Indomitus Crusaders

[Prot]

It’s not just the tank bustas... plus they do move and shoot in trucks so there’s a nice bonus they get without penalty. I find it just has to work once and your missing a little too many units to make an impact.

 

I’ve played against new Orks a lot... in a lot as heck variants and now they are showing up in 2 list types in competitive play and most are packing mobbed up Lootas. To me this is the truly jagged pill to swallow on Intercessors. Every failed 4+ ( not in cover) is a dead Intercessor, or scout, or marine.

 

I’m trying it again with only one large vet Intercessor squad to help the list size out.

[mel_danes]

Yeah the Tankbustas are in a Battlewagon, and the weapons are not heavy, so yeah.

Lootas wreck face too.

Every time I've done well against Orks, I went first. LoS blocking terrain is so huge this edition. Vehicles just can't hide.

[Prot]

Okay so I just had a 2K game vs an Ork player using the Indomnitus Crusaders. This time I minimized the affected Troops to be one, 10 man, Intercessor squad.

 

I personally think this is the way to go. It let me put more points into 'higher threats'. This includes my ongoing experiment to get Centurions to work Post CA2.

 

This did work. It's different, and requires a bit of finesse, but it was a good, fun game.

[Captain Idaho]

Cool. Worries me there would be if someone targets the single Intercessor squad that is upgraded. I presume you got to use them like a unique squad and perhaps stuff them into a Repulsor?

 

(Now you need to make a separate topic about how you felt your Ultramarines Centurions got on!)

[Lemondish]

Cool. Worries me there would be if someone targets the single Intercessor squad that is upgraded. I presume you got to use them like a unique squad and perhaps stuff them into a Repulsor?

 

(Now you need to make a separate topic about how you felt your Ultramarines Centurions got on!)

 

In many ways I think forcing an opponent to overextend in order to kill that squad is probably a good thing. 

 

I'll need to see how it works for the other codex brethren. As is true with everything marines, without Guilliman I don't think the impact here will be quite as effective. 

[mel_danes]

I've played a couple games with the Veterans. An upgraded Interssesors squad can put out obscene Dakka with our Strat, then charge for a follow up assault with tons of attacks.

I've done very well this way.

The White Scars trait used by my Gray Shield, stacked with the Ultramarines trait is sick.

Blast, charge in. Survive opponents turn, fallback, shoot, charge in.

I think I'll 2 squads then go from there.

[Panzer]

For testing it would be annoying for the opponent to keep focussing the Veteran squad, but I think in 'realmatch' situations it's not too bad. Every shot that goes on those Veteran Intercessors is a shot that ultimately just goes towards slightly better Intercessors instead of any of your other Primaris. ^^

[Captain Idaho]

Yes and they cost no extra points so it would be a little painful for the opponent to "waste" good fire on just Intercessors.

[Prot]

At the end of the day they are intecessors firing Bolt Rifles, with extra attacks. Since the FAQ I think you can only upgrade one to "Veteran" status so I've kept it that way, and gone down from two large squads to one 10 man squad with a fist.

 

Playing against Orks this worked well. Like I said they are just Ingercessors so positioning them for an optimal performance in match ups is key.

 

I kept scurring them from objective to objective on the table. My opponent largely ignored them even when I had them in the open. This is also why I only wanted one squad; your opponent really doesn't want to shoot at a mini-Intercessor Blob when he's staring down a Landraider, Thunderfire cannons, Dreads, and 3 Centurions in a Calgar character blob.

 

So moving unimpeded I've used them to control a quarter as best they can. Meaning I will challenge someone coming for an objective with the intercessors. They operate very well on their own, don't forget Scions of Guilliman on these guys is strong.

 

Last game at one point a full truck of boyz zoomed out to grab an objective. I dropped in my Plasma Inceptors, zapped the truck, did normal firing with my Intercessors (killed Grots) and then charged into the Truck Boyz squad. Using the exploding 6's strat, I still only managed to kill most of the squad (was hoping for a full squad kill). The Warboss retaliated and it did hurt a lot. I lost 4 Intercessors, but they kept on trucking well into the opponent's zone.

 

They did well but for me it's about having enough distractions. In our meta playing too many troops that are foot bound is really ugly against stuff like DE, Astra, Tau, Necrons. (Yes even 'crons. 6 man destroyer units are a hot knife through butter with Primaris.).

[Tamiel]

Maybe it's just the meta I play in, but whenever I bring any amount of tanks, they just die on turns 1 or 2. It's really frustrating and I used to have a less than average winrate before I switched over to intercessor spam. I've found that so many people in my meta have anti-tank weapons for days, that bringing nothing but intercessors has thrown a giant spanner in their plans, right from turn 0. So, in my meta, bringing mostly intercessors has worked amazingly really well (I went from a less than 50% winrate to winning every game so far), but it might not be the case for other metas.

On a sidenote, I think the abundance of anti-tank in my meta is because I play in tabletop simulator. In the simulator, you can bring large superheavy units (which tend to be super expensive in real life money) for absolutely free. So it's very common to see a giant tank or something similar in many lists. A lot of people want to play these big units (like baneblades, knigts, morkanouts, those gigantic Tau models, ect), and being able to try them out for free is probably a large part of the reason why they are seen so often in my "local" meta. This causes people to bring more anti-tank weapons in their lists. And let's not forget that a lot of these superheavy tanks are decked out in anti-tank weapons themselves.

So you can imagine my frustration when I say vehicles do not see sunrise in my meta. I really want them to work but it's just not suitable here. Every time I brought a repulsor or redemptor, I've found myself wishing I had just brought more intercessors instead. Which is a real damn shame because I genuinely want to have a "combined arms" type of list where my intercessors are supported by tanks. There's a fluffy draw to having bringing army like that. But all the previous times I've done things like that have lead to losses. Can't wait to have a real life army of my own one day so I don't have to face giant death-lasers every day.

[Prot]

I honestly find my meta a crap shoot. I have no idea what I'm facing before hand. Where I play there are no pre-arranged games most times. So I've seen Knight lists annihilated in T1 by those silly clowns on Harlequin bikes with their special Doom/Guide combo rip Knights apart.

 

I have seen gobs of infantry getting hosed by Astra Parking lot, Tau, etc...

 

So I am always in the middle somewhere. I think it's a playstyle thing. I always prefer diiversity in my lists. I've never been very successful at lists that are fully one way or the other. Also mission type is huge. We play a lot of modified Maelstrom and CA2018 had been good for that too. Some of our tournies are ITC but I really get bored of their misisons fast so we only play them leading up to an event.

 

So that's the background of what I'm doing.....

 

An example is I played an Ork player last week who brought their new Walker specialist detachment which is far better than I expected. He brought a Morkanaught and Gorkanaught and with the Lootas he managed to destroy my Repulsor, and very nearly killed my Landraider on T1. That's ugly.

 

As a side note I know the Repulsor can fly, but I'll tell you there is just something about that 2+ LR save that makes it feel better than the Repulsor. (I started lists with dual Repulsors and switch to one of each now.)

 

Late last week I played Tau heavy battle suits with multi deep striking Flamer guys, and Cyclonic Ion Blasters. It was hitting my infantry very hard.

 

Tonight I will go back to 2 of these units. I was playing one LR last time, and I expect to lose it 90% of the time. The thing is without it, I found my centurions are getting picked on all the time. The second reason I strongly recommend at least a vehicle or two is to hide aura characters. With my Admech I take no less than 3 Arquebus and I can tell you I will often kill aura character(s) of some description in T1. (Killed a Shock attack gun in T1 last game.) Victrix Guard are VERY handy for this too. Oath Breaker missiles are gross.

[Lemondish]

At the end of the day they are intecessors firing Bolt Rifles, with extra attacks. Since the FAQ I think you can only upgrade one to "Veteran" status so I've kept it that way, and gone down from two large squads to one 10 man squad with a fist.

I think the FAQ was just clarifying that you can't select the same unit more than once (since some rules lawyers were suggesting you could spend multiple CP to continuously add Attacks to a unit lol)

[Panzer]

^this

[Captain Idaho]

@ Prot: What type of Land Raider you running? I agree that units which force difficult decisions to be made by opponents will swing games better our way.

[Panzer]

Landraider are definitely more durable than Repulsor, no question. Literally the only reason why I don't like Landraider currently is because they want to get close to the enemy in their transport role but then they can get charged by some throwaway unit to bind them which counteracts their heavy weapon platform role. Of course that's hardly an issue if the Repulsor never arrives but against super competetive armies that's a problem all vehicles have anyway thanks to Knights and Eldar vehicles with to-hit penalties. ^^

[Captain Idaho]

Sorry sPanzer, I actually think that's an old position that is no longer relevant. A debarking unit does so before the Land Raider moves, 3" then moves 6" for a total of 9". The Land Raider (or any transport for that matter) can then back off 10" from the enemy, for at least a gap of 19".

 

More likely, it's a gap of 24"+, since there's either going to be a charge or shooting from the debarking unit.

 

It's still a worry of course, you are right, but I think the days of such disasters are fairly minimal outside Genestealer Cult shenanigans.

[Panzer]

My experience has shown that it's still relevant unfortunately. Maybe you made different experiences but that both are being made shows that it's not completely irrelevant yet.

[Prot]

Thanks for the update guys. I think I'm okay with one Vet Intercessor squad personally. I think that's my magic number.

@ Prot: What type of Land Raider you running? I agree that units which force difficult decisions to be made by opponents will swing games better our way.

I am running an old standard landraider for the last handful of games with this army. I was running Centurions on foot but it's a no-go in my meta. They don't last a turn unless I find some way of completely hiding them which isn't exactly a guarantee I like to lean on. :)

 

I have run dual Repulsors, dual Landraiders, and solo's of each. I think after a LOT of experimentation in games, I like one of each. I know this is an Indomnitus thread, but briefly:

- I find the Landraider superior to the Repulsor by a fair margin.

- The Landraider is essential for my typical Ultra lists, because I don't like rear gunline armies (Astra will always clock us. I think this playstyle is a trap. Just my personal opinon).

- The Landraider alone is almost assurradly dead in T1, but sometimes you get lucky, or you get T1. So I prefer 2. But that is a LOT of points. My real issue here is: Drop Pods still suck.

- The Landraider is essential for my stronger infantry lists because: 1: forces opponent to shoot at it. Lootas for example seem to dice through a 3+ on a Repulsor but the 2+ on a Landraider is just the magic number.. 2. The "essential" part I'm referencing is letting the Landraider take the hits, then getting 3" plus movement = shoot those beta bolters, and lascannons to full effect.

 

I did (perhaps) my last batrep on the Specialist Detachment here: https://prot40k.blog/2019/02/07/a-vigilus-battle-report-the-indomnitus-crusaders/

 

While I don't find the detachment to be top notch, it certainly is making me take (for the first time) 10 man Intercessor squads and seeing some actual results from doing this. (Deathwatch still have it better imho even with Primaris). The biggest question I am always left with after these test games is: Is the CP resource requirement worth it???

[Lemondish]

The "essential" part I'm referencing is letting the Landraider take the hits, then getting 3" plus movement = shoot those beta nipples, and lascannons to full effect.

 

Shoot the what now  ?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

???

[Prot]

Sorry guys, that was meant for the blog. To be crystal clear; Centurions with Beta Bolters.

[Prot]

After the last game's success with the list I decided to pull the Repulsor (just not a huge fan right now compared to the Landraider).

 

Having only one of these units is going to be rough, but I really miss having more deep strikers and believe it or not, I really like the indirect option of the Thunderfire.

 

I will take this tweaked Indomnitus Crusaders list to a game tonight. Not sure who I'll face, but it should be a good game.

[Captain Idaho]

I got to say the 2+ save is golden. With Prepared Positions, a Land Raider can save against a Lascannon on a 4+! Repulsors are tough and great gun boats, but so expensive and crucially a Lascannon wounds T8 on the same as most vehicles in the game so it's only the save that helps keep it alive.

 

(I'll check out your blog more regularly and see what your list is)

[Tamiel]

Just went against an ork army who had 30 lootas (it was a 1k game), and this was a pretty close match. Those deffguns with 2 damage each seemed to be really strong against my primaris horde army. In the end, I only had a squad of 6 intercessors and my captain in gravis armour alive, while the ork player's lootas were untouched and still laying down shots. I couldn't do anything to the lootas all game, because they out-ranged my intercessor blobs (their guns are 48") and I also had to deal with two hordes of 30 boyz each charging down on me. 

 

Orks can definitely shoot in 8E. They can't aim, but they can shoot. Having the raven guard chapter tactic available to me for one turn was actually a pretty huge deal against this ork list. The indomitus crusaders warlord trait seems underwhelming at first, but it gives you so many options that it's pretty adaptable. In almost every game I played, I was able to get something out of the Grey Shield warlord trait. If the enemy has lots of shooting, you pick the Raven Guard chapter tactic. If the enemy is using cover, you pick the Imperial Fists one. If you need to do an army-wide charge you pop the Black Templars one. And if YOU get charged, you can use the Ultramarine Chapter Tactic, which you already get for being Ultramarines, to fall back and shoot the enemy, and if the enemy is still alive, you can then activate the White Scars chapter tactic to finish them off to charge right back into melee and punch the remaining enemies.

So I think getting the Indomitus Crusaders warlord trait on someone other than your warlord is worth the 2CP. I usually put it on my leuitenant. It's basically a swiss-army knife of chapter tactics that you can use for one turn, and you get it for 2CP, and best part is that it applies to all of your intercessors, inceptors, and characters. I can see why it might not seem that enticing to armies who only bring one intercessor squad, but bringing more gives you more bang for your buck for the Grey Shield warlord trait.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Orks are doing terribad at LVO .