Marshal Rohr Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Technically for every victory you know about you also know about a defeat :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullier Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Hmm... You know. That makes me wonder if the BA won in shield of Baal deathstorm... Well. Relating to vigilus. How well did the marines win those 2 lead in starters? Where they overwhelming victories? Skin of their teeth? Phyric? I assume the box sets dont give the canon conclusions. So the aftermath of those boxes is in the vigilis book then? The one with the Broodlord? Yeah they win that one to. Also it doesn't really matter to me how they win, almost everything in 40k is a 'pyrhhic' victory usually, but since it has rarely any impact on the actual story its just window dressing. Just a bit ridiculous they can't let the Space Marines just lose one of these boxed sets. I'm just a bit tired that every time a box set has a story Space Marines win. Blackreach, Corinth, Dark Vengeance and now both of these as well. I like Space Marines as much as the next person but writing is bad if you basically have your protagonists winning almost every box set they appear in. Neither Wake the Dead or Tooth and Claw are so major that they couldn't have, for variety's sake, just let either the Eldar or the Genestealers win a fight for a change. I mean the Imperium's probably gonna win Vigilus overall anyway, so letting one of the small battle box sets be a win for someone other than Space Marines would have been nice. To be fair the victory in the Damocles campaign was phyric at best. They "won" but couldn't finish it because they were needed somewhere else against Chaos and whatever horrible losses the T'au suffered they recovered from in an extremely short timeframe and even re-conquered the planet they fought over lol I mean the Damocles campaign had no boxed set as far as I know so it obviously doesn't qualify for anything I'm talking about here. Also I think you're maybe mixing it up a bit, Damocles ended with the Imperium unable to finish taking Agrellan and so leaving and then igniting the Damocles gulf. That being said the Tau recovered just as fast as everyone recovers in 40k (aka as fast as te plot needs to) and they didn't retake Agrellan its confirmed in latest Tau codex Agrellan is just dead so it was completely removed from the Tau. Other than Prefectia and two other Septs the Third Spehre Expansoion failed t do anything actually, the Tau codex says all the few remaining Third Sphere septs are on the verge of falling to the Imperium already cuase of the firestorm and if I remember right the Imperial Knights Codex even has a story about one of them being reconquered. I didn't confuse anything and if you're just talking about campaigns that got a box with models then that's a very limited amount of campaigns to judge things with. Also the gulf isn't even on fire anymore. The great rift snuffed it out. Well yeah but that's the slice we're talking about. Since we're talking about Boxed set stories why not let someone other than Space Marines win them for a change? Don't really see the problem with that. Also, yeah, like a few things the lore's been a bit spotty on it, technically the Tau's latest Codex says the Firestorm is still burning post-noctis aeterna even though, I know, certain other 8th Ed sources say its gone out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Let's avoid walls of quotes, please. It's not against the rules, but it is annoying. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Regarding the Crimson Fists, the civilians they saved on Rynns World were effectively their people (they didn't recruit from them, but they were stationed there). And while they aren't going to touch themselves at the end of a battle like that one chapter that LOVES killing civilians, if some dirt needs to be done for the greater good of the Imperium (like Genestealer Cult invasion) they arent going to sit and debate the costs. I say again, the best thing to do is to pull back and virus bomb the planet and then rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 They made the Space Marines win both box sets? That's lame. They could honestly have let either the Genestealers or Eldar win one of those small battles for a change in the box sets. It's mainly imperium vs chaos. GSC, Eldar and Orks are just there to make the whole thing bigger but don't think for a second they were ever considered for more than adding some flavour to the imperium vs chaos narrative. ^^ Pretty much, I like chaos but how they handle Xeno's is a travesty. They are merely side stories, I found it quite perplexing that space marines won both box sets. I was expecting a loss on the genestealer one because they are facing a name character. Anyway maybe GW might surprise us because GSC is getting a big update? After the crying that happened over the Damocles book because a Literally Who Chapter Master got killed, despite the fact the Tau had a Pyrrhic Victory and lost the closest thing to a faction leader, I'm not surprised GW don't want to risk Marine vs Other stories where they lose. People still complain 'GW is bias in Tau's favour' because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwingt65 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Neither Wake the Dead or Tooth and Claw are so major that they couldn't have, for variety's sake, just let either the Eldar or the Genestealers win a fight for a change. I mean the Imperium's probably gonna win Vigilus overall anyway, so letting one of the small battle box sets be a win for someone other than Space Marines would have been nice. I agree, and also, space marines are interesting to me when they're dying heroically in last stands and the like. Reading about that makes me think "I really want to paint some of these guys". Stomping the xenos of the week really doesn't. This is a big reason why I've always liked FW sourcebooks (like the Badab war) more than a lot of mainline GW campaign narratives I guess. e; people love the story of the Spartans at Thermopylae, right? What happened to those guys? Just saying. The Badab War sourcebooks are still may favorites. So much amazing stuff in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spessmarine Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 DA abandoning allies at crucial moments again? Ah great, good ole' beat you over the head with their theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Good old Flanderization... at least they didn't go nuts with the Lion thing like they did with Wolves for the Sons of Russ. Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Good old Flanderization... at least they didn't go nuts with the Lion thing like they did with Wolves for the Sons of Russ. Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? Bummer actually. A bit more Lion themed bling would be awesome. Not as much as the SW of course. :D Sounds like the Heldrakes and Raptors came after the Marines were already fighting on the ground for a while ... how literally nobody told them that the Chaos guys arrived and are wrecking havoc in the skies is ridiculous tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullier Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 They made the Space Marines win both box sets? That's lame. They could honestly have let either the Genestealers or Eldar win one of those small battles for a change in the box sets. It's mainly imperium vs chaos. GSC, Eldar and Orks are just there to make the whole thing bigger but don't think for a second they were ever considered for more than adding some flavour to the imperium vs chaos narrative. ^^ Pretty much, I like chaos but how they handle Xeno's is a travesty. They are merely side stories, I found it quite perplexing that space marines won both box sets. I was expecting a loss on the genestealer one because they are facing a name character. Anyway maybe GW might surprise us because GSC is getting a big update? After the crying that happened over the Damocles book because a Literally Who Chapter Master got killed, despite the fact the Tau had a Pyrrhic Victory and lost the closest thing to a faction leader, I'm not surprised GW don't want to risk Marine vs Other stories where they lose. People still complain 'GW is bias in Tau's favour' because of it. I guess. Just a pity to me, makes the setting feel stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Good old Flanderization... at least they didn't go nuts with the Lion thing like they did with Wolves for the Sons of Russ. Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? Bummer actually. A bit more Lion themed bling would be awesome. Not as much as the SW of course. :D Sounds like the Heldrakes and Raptors came after the Marines were already fighting on the ground for a while ... how literally nobody told them that the Chaos guys arrived and are wrecking havoc in the skies is ridiculous tho. They were told something was up there, they even sent reconnaissance. But no one ever returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Good old Flanderization... at least they didn't go nuts with the Lion thing like they did with Wolves for the Sons of Russ. Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? Bummer actually. A bit more Lion themed bling would be awesome. Not as much as the SW of course. Sounds like the Heldrakes and Raptors came after the Marines were already fighting on the ground for a while ... how literally nobody told them that the Chaos guys arrived and are wrecking havoc in the skies is ridiculous tho. They were told something was up there, they even sent reconnaissance. But no one ever returned. Ah okay of course then everything's fine up there. (just joking of course, I really gonna need to take my time and read the whole thing after christmas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Well if the brazen claws are there ists entirely possible that the Dreadnought Xipjon interceptor is in theatre if the 1st company is present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Good old Flanderization... at least they didn't go nuts with the Lion thing like they did with Wolves for the Sons of Russ. Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? Bummer actually. A bit more Lion themed bling would be awesome. Not as much as the SW of course. Sounds like the Heldrakes and Raptors came after the Marines were already fighting on the ground for a while ... how literally nobody told them that the Chaos guys arrived and are wrecking havoc in the skies is ridiculous tho. They were told something was up there, they even sent reconnaissance. But no one ever returned. Ah okay of course then everything's fine up there. (just joking of course, I really gonna need to take my time and read the whole thing after christmas) Well I mean the war you for sure have below (that you aren't exactly winning) will be a huge distraction. It's not like they sent a few guys and thought, "oh they aren't returning, all good let's forget about it." It's that they couldn't just send an entire battle group of people for unconfirmed things. The way it read when I was reading stuff about it made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Anyone else confused by the timeline? Is this happening after the indomitus crusade? During? The time given has it start a year after the rift appears and the last part of the 3rd phase of the war of the beasts is just 15 years later. But the Ultramarines are referenced as experienced from the Plague Wars. Any insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I assume after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Time isn't really of concern. Time is all confused near the rift so even if the whole thing happens shortly after the appearance of the rift it can still be quite some time after the Indomitus Crusade ended for the Primaris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Antipodes Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I got the impression that GW were being deliberately obscure and confusing WRT the new timeline set up and how the various Warzones relate to one another. I was okay with them dropping the one size fits all dating initially, but the more we proceed without it the less I'm liking it if I'm honest. I don't mind each zone running its own timeline but they should still stack up next to each other within a reasonable factor for slippage due the Warp shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 They should have just kept the old check system, that was literally what it was designed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 While I prefer the old system, I appreciate they are incorporating new elements to force a level of continuity in the post Rift era. As weird as the timelines are, they will be consistent with one another which is something I always wished they’d do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? The Heldrakes didn't attack anything until the official declaration of war. The whole planet has been under curfew not to look at the skies at night thanks to Vigilus being so close to the rift that its presence is driving people insane. The few reports from those who spotted a Heldrake flying around at night were lost in the noise of all the other people complaining about strange visions. The Imperium's flyers were too focused on defending against constant ork air raids to patrol areas outside the main theatre of war. Well I mean the war you for sure have below (that you aren't exactly winning) will be a huge distraction. Except for the Unforgiven who were distracted and kept their forces in reserve in case things got worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Good old Flanderization... at least they didn't go nuts with the Lion thing like they did with Wolves for the Sons of Russ. Do Space Marines and Guardsmen not establish air superiority before putting that many boots on the ground? Did the Heldrakes and Raptors knock out our flyers without anyone noticing? Bummer actually. A bit more Lion themed bling would be awesome. Not as much as the SW of course. :D Sounds like the Heldrakes and Raptors came after the Marines were already fighting on the ground for a while ... how literally nobody told them that the Chaos guys arrived and are wrecking havoc in the skies is ridiculous tho. You thought the Thunder Wolves were fierce they got nothing on the Thunder Catsssssss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralguardhipcat Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Is there any lore / examples of how a grey shield Indomitus Crusaders / veteran should be marked or depicted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Is there any lore / examples of how a grey shield Indomitus Crusaders / veteran should be marked or depicted? No images I've ever found, but greyshields markings described as a grey chevron over the chapter badge. So unknown if this grey chevron is on top of or simply above the chapter badge. And unknown if it's point up or point down. Personally I'm doing thick grey point up chevron under the chapter symbol for post crusade vets. I think the exact colour grey depends on good contrast against the chapter colour and the chapter badge colour. Which could be tricky. I'd love to see what people come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel_danes Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 To piggy back on this idea. Is there any idea what the Indomitus Crusade campaign badge looks like? We have a Vigilus badge, but nothing for the crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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