Scammel Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The upscaling of the CSM range leads me to belive this won't happen; Primaris are all about the scale of the models themselves first, and fluff second. It seems strange that basic and cult CSM would grow in size only to be superceded. If such a thing does happen, I suspect Primaris biology would inform an entirely new unit type rather than a replacement for the mainstream infantry. Elite bodyguards for Abaddon, unwilling Possessed, that kind of thing - Fabius striving to one-up Cawl, even if the result is less sustainable or replicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 They can't get much bigger. Any taller and we might as well play with action figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The upscaling of the CSM range leads me to belive this won't happen; Primaris are all about the scale of the models themselves first, and fluff second. It seems strange that basic and cult CSM would grow in size only to be superceded. If such a thing does happen, I suspect Primaris biology would inform an entirely new unit type rather than a replacement for the mainstream infantry. Elite bodyguards for Abaddon, unwilling Possessed, that kind of thing - Fabius striving to one-up Cawl, even if the result is less sustainable or replicable. Bigger csm still aren’t as big as Primaris marines, they are noticeably smaller. And csm have started down that sizing path anyway, since the DV chosen came out 6 years ago. None of that would preclude Primaris csm if GW wants them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I think in terms of lore given the time that has now passed it's entirely possible there are Primaris traitors running around, if they can corrupt a Primarch then a Primaris shouldn't be too hard regardless of any fail safes that Cawl may have built in. Would I like to see them become the dark side of the Imperium, in short no. The distinction between Primaris and regular Astartes is prime territory to expand on the Traitors and take them in a different direction to the modern Imperium. Andy Chambers had a very distinct feel in mind for the Traitors and I think they should carry on with that rather than bring traitor Primaris into it. A Traitor Primaris character maybe, but regular Primaris are best left for the Imperials otherwise we just end up with more marines with spikey bits on them who happen to be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The upscaling of the CSM range leads me to belive this won't happen; Primaris are all about the scale of the models themselves first, and fluff second. It seems strange that basic and cult CSM would grow in size only to be superceded. If such a thing does happen, I suspect Primaris biology would inform an entirely new unit type rather than a replacement for the mainstream infantry. Elite bodyguards for Abaddon, unwilling Possessed, that kind of thing - Fabius striving to one-up Cawl, even if the result is less sustainable or replicable. Bigger csm still aren’t as big as Primaris marines, they are noticeably smaller. And csm have started down that sizing path anyway, since the DV chosen came out 6 years ago. None of that would preclude Primaris csm if GW wants them to be. Well, yes, that's my point - the new CSM are already shaping up to be larger than their old/current versions. Primaris are an upscaling exercise that is already underway for CSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Why are some people prone to getting upset over mild re-scaling? This kind of thing is as old as the hobby itself. Do you remember the old Marines and Terminators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I'd love to see Chaos Space Marines in the same scale as Primaris, but traitor Primaris? No. Just no. Besides, I'd like to keep Terminators. Primaris have no TDA and that stand-in or whatever looks dumb as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Why are some people prone to getting upset over mild re-scaling? This kind of thing is as old as the hobby itself. Do you remember the old Marines and Terminators? Old old marines were just grown or adjusted,same for terminators. I've 3rd ed csm I've later csm, I've metal terminators I've plastic terminators, between those I was never once told this is new hotness, old won't exist anymore or are being replaced by. This is the difference, as primaris is a definitive replacenent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 To be honest I doubt GW could have done anything without backlash, and I say this because people got enraged over a change in base sizes. Going back to topic, I'll reiterate that I believe a more unique, divergent set of units would be best for Chaos. Visually GW should double down with the baroque, aged look of the traitors and the clean, sci-fi look of the loyalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I think the best case scenario is if chaos get some super big Marine units, there are a range of origins given. Maybe the giant megastartes are corrupt Primaris, but maybe they're Bile's experiments, or swollen with chaotic energies, or daemon possessed, or some other reason. Leave the door open, but make it only one of many possible reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Of War Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I wouldn't mind seeing corrupted Primaris appear in the background, say in a Black Library novel, but i'd prefer them to remain off the tabletop. At least for now anyway. The Primaris range is still in the process of being established, it needs time to solidly develop it's own character and aesthetic before it's twisted into a new form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Back then the Legions mostly turned because their Primarchs got corrupted tho. Now in 40k the organisations are smaller and they don't have Primarchs that turn which they could follow. A chapter master turning to chaos wouldn't have nearly the same impact as a Primarch since he's lacking the primarch aura for example. Aren't Marines programmed to obey primarchs and even more so their genefather? There are a few that can resist but those are only a select few. So if they used a Death Guard geneseed, and mortarion came down to corrupt them then they would fall easier. Making Primaris Marines 100% immune to chaos is a mistake imo. It removes an element of that "chaos corrupts all" element in 40k. It's boring of chapters are constantly either good or bad, with no chapters being corrupted. That element is key to 40k imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Back then the Legions mostly turned because their Primarchs got corrupted tho. Now in 40k the organisations are smaller and they don't have Primarchs that turn which they could follow. A chapter master turning to chaos wouldn't have nearly the same impact as a Primarch since he's lacking the primarch aura for example. Aren't Marines programmed to obey primarchs and even more so their genefather? There are a few that can resist but those are only a select few. So if they used a Death Guard geneseed, and mortarion came down to corrupt them then they would fall easier. Making Primaris Marines 100% immune to chaos is a mistake imo. It removes an element of that "chaos corrupts all" element in 40k. It's boring of chapters are constantly either good or bad, with no chapters being corrupted. That element is key to 40k imo. That's been a fairly dividing question among the fandom, with support on both sides. I think the best we can say for sure is that some Word Bearers believed that they would over Lorgar without question, and the rest is questionable. We also know that Astartes as a whole tend to be in shock and awe in the presence of a Primarch, but we don't know if there's a genetic link there or just a learned respect, like how many (dumb example) Americans may pay deference in presence of the Queen of England purely because we're raised to pay respect to heads of state and recognize it as what to do. Plus, an Astartes is used to being the Apex predator, and don't spend a ton of time around things that could tear out their spine at will. All of that said, it's murky enough that I could definitely see them combining Cawl's little experiments and geneseed related loyalty into a reason why some Primaris go wonky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Of War Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Making Primaris Marines 100% immune to chaos is a mistake imo. It removes an element of that "chaos corrupts all" element in 40k. It's boring of chapters are constantly either good or bad, with no chapters being corrupted. That element is key to 40k imo. If they were to make the Primaris incorruptible, then i think they'd need to introduce some other flaw to prevent them becoming dull as dishwater. Like they did with Stormcast Eternals in Age of Sigmar, they appear incorruptible by Chaos, but their method of creation and recreation has a huge negative impact on them, with it's own affects on their physical form and psychology to the point were some could be considered as bad as Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Back then the Legions mostly turned because their Primarchs got corrupted tho. Now in 40k the organisations are smaller and they don't have Primarchs that turn which they could follow. A chapter master turning to chaos wouldn't have nearly the same impact as a Primarch since he's lacking the primarch aura for example. Aren't Marines programmed to obey primarchs and even more so their genefather? There are a few that can resist but those are only a select few. So if they used a Death Guard geneseed, and mortarion came down to corrupt them then they would fall easier. Making Primaris Marines 100% immune to chaos is a mistake imo. It removes an element of that "chaos corrupts all" element in 40k. It's boring of chapters are constantly either good or bad, with no chapters being corrupted. That element is key to 40k imo. That's been a fairly dividing question among the fandom, with support on both sides. I think the best we can say for sure is that some Word Bearers believed that they would over Lorgar without question, and the rest is questionable. We also know that Astartes as a whole tend to be in shock and awe in the presence of a Primarch, but we don't know if there's a genetic link there or just a learned respect, like how many (dumb example) Americans may pay deference in presence of the Queen of England purely because we're raised to pay respect to heads of state and recognize it as what to do. Plus, an Astartes is used to being the Apex predator, and don't spend a ton of time around things that could tear out their spine at will. All of that said, it's murky enough that I could definitely see them combining Cawl's little experiments and geneseed related loyalty into a reason why some Primaris go wonky. Well in the Fabius Bile novel when he found Fulgrims clone he instantly knew it was a proper clone due the primarch aura even when he was still a young boy and that Fulgrim clone managed to bring everyone on his side with basically zero effort and even Bile was struggling to not falling into his old ways again with the grown Fulgrim clone around. He could only pull himself together long enough to tell Trazyn to take Fulgrim clone and everybody that wishes to follow him away as prize for the untainted EC geneseed. That goes for non-Legion member like the New Men but doubly so for the Emperor's Children present on his ship. It doesn't read like it's conditioning that happened thousands of years ago but instead reads like it's something supernatural which makes sense considering Primarchs are partly warp beings which basically gives them a huge buff on their charisma bordering on mind control magic lol So yeah if Primaris Marines made from traitor Legion geneseed would meet their Primarch it would be .... interesting. Also interesting to note is that both, Cawl and Guilliman were right about using traitor geneseed for Primaris Marines. Cawl couldn't find any abnormality in the traitor geneseed because there is none, it's all coming from the Primarchs getting corrupted ... and Guilliman is right to still not allow using traitor geneseed even without him knowing the whole Primarch thing for good (or does he, he never gave a reason for his 'no' after all). Implanting something in Primaris that kills them on the spot if someone notices they turned is a nice idea but is unreliable and potentially dangerous since you can't really identify warp taint automatically so need someone to watch over them and use it manually, probably Chaplains, but if the Chaplain gets corrupted the whole plan falls apart and instead the now corrupted Chaplain has an instant kill weapon against the non-corrupted Primaris. Not to mention that the corruption itself, especially if it's nurgle or tzeentch, could simply 'disable' such a device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Making Primaris Marines 100% immune to chaos is a mistake imo. It removes an element of that "chaos corrupts all" element in 40k. It's boring of chapters are constantly either good or bad, with no chapters being corrupted. That element is key to 40k imo. If they were to make the Primaris incorruptible, then i think they'd need to introduce some other flaw to prevent them becoming dull as dishwater. Like they did with Stormcast Eternals in Age of Sigmar, they appear incorruptible by Chaos, but their method of creation and recreation has a huge negative impact on them, with it's own affects on their physical form and psychology to the point were some could be considered as bad as Chaos. Yeah but to be fair you could already consider Marines as bad as Chaos if you're a regular citizen. Not the worst of the chaos and not the best of imperial Marines but the grey middle of both. The 40k universe is a terrible place with no real good guys unlike AoS which has its fair share of terrible-ness (mainly with the new Aelve factions) but also a bunch of classic good guys. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 How do I report people (OK just one) for being wrong on the mobile site? As to the question, it should happen in a BL book, immediately. And it should be the 'face' faction that it happens to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 If space marines are genetically loyal to their Primarchs not a single one would have fought against them. But we can see from Istavaan that that isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Never. There's no reason Chaos needs to get every bell and whistle that the Imperium has ... and some folks really need to look up the definition of Mary Sue. There is no reason every thing in the Imperium should fall to Chaos. Where are the Chaos Tau? Where are the Chaos Orks? Where are the Chaos Sisters of Battle, to use a very entrenched faction of the Imperium? Why aren't we discussing Chaos Custodes? If they get a pass then so do my Primaris. Hands off Sorry guys, I like the Primaris represent the possibility of taking a stand against corruption. There's enough corruption in out real lives I'd like to see someone standing strong against the tide threatening humanity ... and while I'm a Grey Knight fan they don't work for me because as a militant arm of the Inquisition (see my username guys) they're part of a corrupt institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Never. There's no reason Chaos needs to get every bell and whistle that the Imperium has ... and some folks really need to look up the definition of Mary Sue. There is no reason every thing in the Imperium should fall to Chaos. :sick: Where are the Chaos Tau? Where are the Chaos Orks? Where are the Chaos Sisters of Battle, to use a very entrenched faction of the Imperium? Why aren't we discussing Chaos Custodes? If they get a pass then so do my Primaris. :wallbash: Hands off :facepalm: Sorry guys, I like the Primaris represent the possibility of taking a stand against corruption. There's enough corruption in out real lives I'd like to see someone standing strong against the tide threatening humanity ... and while I'm a Grey Knight fan they don't work for me because as a militant arm of the Inquisition (see my username guys) they're part of a corrupt institution. :whistling: In the lore there is chaos orks, sisters, guard, and I believe Tau recently had a entry about them being corrupted. Hell even necron are affected by Nurgle now. They just don't have chaosified models. Custodes are a bit different in the way they are made, treated, trained, just about everything. I wouldn't be surprised if there was chais corrupted Custodes. Actually didn't the emperor put a daemon in a Custodes and told him to run before the daemon corrupted him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Never. There's no reason Chaos needs to get every bell and whistle that the Imperium has ... and some folks really need to look up the definition of Mary Sue. There is no reason every thing in the Imperium should fall to Chaos. Where are the Chaos Tau? Where are the Chaos Orks? Where are the Chaos Sisters of Battle, to use a very entrenched faction of the Imperium? Why aren't we discussing Chaos Custodes? If they get a pass then so do my Primaris. Hands off Sorry guys, I like the Primaris represent the possibility of taking a stand against corruption. There's enough corruption in out real lives I'd like to see someone standing strong against the tide threatening humanity ... and while I'm a Grey Knight fan they don't work for me because as a militant arm of the Inquisition (see my username guys) they're part of a corrupt institution. .... I'm going to try and remember this post for when they do (and they should, thats the setting) fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Commander Ajax Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Never, hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 Chaos orks happened (seem to remember Nurgle related things), chaos sister's definitely happened, chaos kroot happened (they ate some slaanesh stuff), chaos T'au have happened (something to do with air caste and tentacles), Eldar made a chaos god. Custodes enter the same realm as grey knights for specialness But with certain exceptions fluff wise, everything can get corrupted, even inquisitors. So if primaris don't in the fluff they're suddenly on a par with grey knights and custodes. And frankly 3 extra organs and an ability to question what your elders are telling you doesn't suddenly propel you to individually genewrought defenders of the emperor or super special select geneseed psyker demon/chaos hunters, even though grey knight primaris can't be that far out, then those guys get a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Oh, I totally expect a few to be corrupted in the lore (before their brains explode) . I just don't ever want to see them on the tabletop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 You will one day, I’d bet on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.