Kill Team Tactica: Orks

[Repentless]

Hello

I have tried to find some Killteam info. on Orks but without any luck.

My plan is to build an ork Killteam and then hopefully still be motivated to paint a 40K ork army.

Should I just use boyz or are any of the other units viable ?

Thanks.

Kind regards

Kim

Edited September 17, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka
Edited title.

[N1SB]

Hi Kim, I'm hesitant to reply because I have not yet found the winning strategy with Orks in Kill Team yet.  That's not to say they're bad, it's that I've been focusing on my Genestealer Cult and Deathwatch Primaris Kill Teams.  It just means I don't have a good answer for Orks yet.

 

What I do know is, IMHO, just Boyz did not work well as planned.  I mention this because, as a starting player, if forcing yourself to paint a lot of Orks is the hurdle (because you heard from other players that's what you have to do as Orks), then you can relax; I honestly think there are better solutions out there, just not sure what.

 

What I did was what I thought would be the conventional horde list: 1 Ork Nob as Leader, the rest as Ork Boyz, turns out to be 15 of them.  I've had these Orks forever, just finally fielded them again.  Because it's slightly harder to get into combat (in normal games you can move, then charge, but in Kill Team you just charge, so you cover less distance), they got shot up more.  Then due to casualties, Orks have low morale and are more likely to Shaken.  By the time 5 Orks were actually killed, the rest of the Kill Team were effectively frozen.

 

The learning was that the normal strategy of Orks...basically have a lot of Boyz, because conventional wisdom suggests Boyz before Toyz, didn't quite apply to Kill Team.  In normal games, losing a third of an Ork Mob to shooting before it gets into combat isn't a big deal, in fact it's factored into "the cost of doing business" or "business as usual".  Didn't quite apply here.

 

If I were to try this again, I'd maybe make a Kill Team of just Ork Nobz and Ork Burnaz.  They come in boxes of 5 each, as a mini-project maybe I'd buy 1 of each, just so I can enjoy modeling and painting them.  The concept is Ork Nobz bring melee and durability while Ork Burnaz bring auto-hit Flamers, and I'd have them work in tag teams.  An enemy has to choose to shoot one or the other...and whichever they shoot, here comes the other guy.  I don't know if that'd work, but I think that's better than the conventional all Boyz (+ some Nob) mini-horde.

 

+++

 

By the way, looking forward to a full-scale army, I noticed in another post you have a very realistic assessment that you don't want to paint a horde.  That's outstanding you know that in advance.  I think being forced to paint Troops is what burns a lot of players out.

 

Just a little more than a year ago, I faced this hard truth myself.  I actually looked to things I never considered, never even thought I would consider, by re-framing the question, what Troops would I be willing to paint?  Ironically, that turned out to be Nurglings.  I built that army up quickly and won an Armies On Parade event last year, painting a little under 1,000 points in about just 1 month.  I never thought I could to that.

 

The biggest hurdle was realising I chose the wrong army.  I wanted Iron Hands Space Marines or Orks.  Nurgle was my true calling.  I was as shocked as anyone.

 

I don't know if this is helpful, but perhaps this will be a springboard for new ideas.  It happens Daemons are very easy to paint quickly and effortlessly, for example.

[Repentless]

Thank you very very much for the reply, that was just an absolutely brilliant reply, exactly the reply I was looking for.

The thought of burn out due to painting loads of troops just demotivates me so I dont even start.

But these green maniacs are just funny, I just love them.

Thank you very much for sharing your learnings, I guess I somehow have been limited to my approach to orks due to the "orks have to be like this" idea. 

And I also have to admit that I forced myself to paint models because of the "it has to be like this" idea instead of painting the models I like and would love to play with and that is just a huge mistake.

After reading your reply I will in fact do it "I love these models so they will be my army" approach. The mini project you mentioned is a brilliant way to start and painting only 5 models to begin with is very motivating.

Thanks a lot again for the reply.

Kind regards

Kim

[FlamingDeth]

Ork nobz doesn't work because unless the expansions change it you can only take two, a normal boyz nob and kommando nob.

 

Kommandos help with getting in range. They're more expensive than boyz but can be fun conversion projects if you don't want to get fiddly resin kits. Also, I'm a fan of having a single loota as fire support with a big shoota spanner next to him as a comms specialist giving him a hit bonus. It can help keep obvious firelanes clear, which when combined with your kommando bonuses can help you close distance easier to begin the murder.

 

So, in short...

 

Step 1: Dakka!

Step 2: ??????

Step 3: Profit!

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, also keep 1-2 grots nearby to eat bullets. Also, if you're in a campaign, making the loota a heavy specialist can help too, especially with suppressor and Rigorous.

Edited December 31, 2018 by CardinalVirtue

[Beams]

I found some success with a Grot Leader, Ork Nob combat specialist, Ork Kommando Nob, and then a couple Big Shoota boys, and Kommandos

[Warhead01]

The one time I have played my leader was a Kommando Nob which was helpful. I feel I had too much variety in my list or at least needed a few more games to judge that. I recall having 3 or 4 grots several choopa boys a loota another Nob and at least 1 boy with a big shoota but over all I needed more choppas than shooting weapons or a smarter plan. 
With all Ork shooting everything counts in large amounts so focus your fire till something is killed I guess. Gain a 2 or 3 to one advantage in close combat if you can, this is a smart idea because of having to move model that fail a charge. So you'll want a few chances to overwhelm another model.   Clean off objectives held by the other player where they will have trouble getting them back all that sort of thing. Not really sure whats "good' when it comes to a better list. Can't help with that. I will say if I remember that Burnas looked kinda good but haven't tried them yet. Best of luck.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Warhead01

[N1SB]

A quick reply in case Frater Repentless checks back, and thanks for correcting me on the number of Nobs issue.  That was an oversight, I should've thought of that as even with the Kill Teams I'm actively using, we're limited to 2 or 3 Sergeant-equivalents.  Also great point on the Grot Leader, I do that with my Genestealer Cult (in that I chose the cheapest, weakest unit as Leader so he can just sit pretty in the back and generated command points).

 

Taking what you guys mentioned, and understanding what Repentless said before, I'd personally suggest trying something like:

 

Grot Leader: hides in the back, generating command points is his sole purpose, he's like the team mascot

 

Loota Spanna Comms Specialist: with a Big Shoota probably, not sure which Specialism uses his Specialism on himself to shoot better

 

Nob Specialist + Kommando Nob Specialist: trying to fit in Power Claws for them in points, I think Veteran and Combat Specialisms

 

5 x Burna Boyz: I still personally lean towards Flamers for Orks more than other options for now just for Kill Team

 

For modeling purposes, I would actually do this still with a Ork Nobs box and a Burna Boyz box.  The Specialists would all be represented by Nob models, with the Loota being a Nob model with one of the big guns, the Nobs being Nobs and there's even an ornament Grot dragging ammo: he'll be the Leader.

Edited January 8, 2019 by N1SB

[gaurdian31]

Unfortunately the FAQ made it so you can't buff yourself with the Comms Specialist skill anymore. 

 

Page 70 – Comms Specialists, Ability tree, Scanner Change to: ‘Scanner: Once per Shooting phase, if this model is not shaken, when you pick another model from your kill team within 6" of this model to shoot, you can add 1 to hit rolls for that model in this phase.’

[Repentless]

Thanks to everyone for the replies:)

I will begin with 5 x Burna Boyz, that is definitely manageable when it comes to painting.

I will be using the orc incinerator team from Kromlech and the iron Reich orc gasmask heads.

I think this is going to be a very nice little hobby project.

Thanks again.

Kind regards

Kim

[lordsloth]

Just thought I'd revive this thread as a lot has happened since. We have elites now, the annual has .. done things .. to choppas. A year of playing kill team has passed and maybe brought new insights.

 

I recently was able to buy a heavily discounted "start collecting" orks and was inspired to make a kill team. I know next to nothing about the ork faction though (and not all that much about kill team in general yet either).

 

Critique and insights welcome!

 

(Deathskulls 100 pts, elites)

Gretchin leader

 

Nob (Boyz), Big Choppa, kombiSkorcha, Veteran

Nob (Nobz), Klaw, Combat

Spanner (Lootas), Big shoota, Comms

 

Ork boy Gunner, Big shoota

Ork boy Gunner, Big shoota

Nob (Kommando), Klaw

Kommando

Kommando

 

The idea being

• Hide the gretchin
• Reserve and Infiltrate the 3 Kommandos
• Depending on setup either veteran move + advance the boyz nob into skorcha range or if already close enough advance into skorcha range and dakka dakka dakka
• Shootas sit on backfield objectives and try to roll 6's

Thoughts:

• Should I just be running more stock boys instead of big shootas and a comms spanner?
• Is it worth it to try to mess with points and get a rockit launcha boy in there? Between the comms, death skullz trait and dakka dakka dakka maybe he would occasionally hit something?
• How to take it to 125? I was thinking just add a combination of 2 lootas and/or burna boyz to make it 124
• How to then take it to 200 Commanders? I was thinking either a warboss with klaw or a warboss w big choppa, attack squig and one extra choppa boy.
• Are shoota boys better than choppa boys now that choppas cost an extra point?
• Are meganobz worth it (dem suckers are expensive, both in pts and $)

Critique and general debate on state of orks welcome!

[Mr Smith]

Critique and general debate on state of orks welcome!

 

Grot Leaders are such a crutch, and completely against the lore.

[lordsloth]

 

Critique and general debate on state of orks welcome!

 

Grot Leaders are such a crutch, and completely against the lore.

 

To be honest, I never really care much about that.

To me the leader specialism is a game mechanic and nothing more.

It has nothing to do with who the leader of my team is in their backstory.

 

Grot leaders are effective because kill team disincentivises having a melee leader.

Edited February 28, 2020 by lordsloth

[Mr Smith]

 

To be honest, I never really care much about that.

 

To me the leader specialism is a game mechanic and nothing more.

It has nothing to do with who the leader of my team is in their backstory.

 

Grot leaders are effective because kill team disincentivises having a melee leader.

 

 

Still a cheap move, and blatantly un-Orky.  Most factions have melee-focussed Leaders anyway.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think the fact that most factions have melee-focused leaders has more to do with the weapons options for squad leader models in base 40K than it being a good idea to try to push your leaders forward into melee.  In an army where you already have enough models that you want to do that with, you are really better off having some guy hiding in the back providing you with CPs.

 

It may be unorky, but chaos space marines have the same problem - for a faction that one would think would be good in melee (as chaos are often thought of as spikey-er and choppier marines), without elites the only way to have a decent melee focused specialist is give the leader role to the cultist champion.

 

That's not to suggest that playing it fluffy is playing it wrong - its just that, the way the killteam army rosters work, you will likely do better if you take the unfluffy grot or cultist champion as your leader than if make the leader the model that fluffwise it ought to be.

[Mr Smith]

I think the fact that most factions have melee-focused leaders has more to do with the weapons options for squad leader models in base 40K than it being a good idea to try to push your leaders forward into melee.  In an army where you already have enough models that you want to do that with, you are really better off having some guy hiding in the back providing you with CPs.

 

It may be unorky, but chaos space marines have the same problem - for a faction that one would think would be good in melee (as chaos are often thought of as spikey-er and choppier marines), without elites the only way to have a decent melee focused specialist is give the leader role to the cultist champion.

 

That's not to suggest that playing it fluffy is playing it wrong - its just that, the way the killteam army rosters work, you will likely do better if you take the unfluffy grot or cultist champion as your leader than if make the leader the model that fluffwise it ought to be.

 

 To be be honest, that just makes me think the problem is with how Leaders work to begin with.  They need to lead, rather than act as a battery.

[Rogue]

Or, think of the grot as a lucky mascot rather than a leader. As long as he's alive, the KillTeam just seem to do better - they make critical shots, get their punches in before their opponents, that sort of thing. And if their mascot ever dies, the luck goes with him.

 

In the same vein, your cultist champion could also be a burgeoning demon-host, with the warp creating strange quirks of fate around him. And so on. Fluff is what you make it.

[lordsloth]

Or, think of the grot as a lucky mascot rather than a leader. As long as he's alive, the KillTeam just seem to do better - they make critical shots, get their punches in before their opponents, that sort of thing. And if their mascot ever dies, the luck goes with him.

 

In the same vein, your cultist champion could also be a burgeoning demon-host, with the warp creating strange quirks of fate around him. And so on. Fluff is what you make it.

 

That is how I view mine. My combat nob is the leader of the team, the grot is the mascot.

 

Again, for me, fluff and mechanics have nothing to do with one another. Fluff comes from how you model your minis for me, not what some game text says. You can think it is 'unfluffy' to make a grot the leader but to me he is not the leader. The biggest nob is. Very fluffy. If somebody can't divorce mechanics from fluff and feel they have to play according to the vocabulary of the rules (because lets face it, 'leader' is just the name they gave the CP generator, they could just as easily have called it 'tactical advisor' or 'jimbo'). 

 

People who think that view on things is 'cheap' are more than welcome to hold that opinion just so long as they know it is literally just that, an opinion. I hold another one. It's fine. World will keep turning.

[Mr Smith]

 

 

Again, for me, fluff and mechanics have nothing to do with one another.

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there: mechanics really should follow fluff.  Otherwise what's the point of it?

[lordsloth]

 

 

 

Again, for me, fluff and mechanics have nothing to do with one another.

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there: mechanics really should follow fluff.  Otherwise what's the point of it?

 

I dunno. I don't think either has to follow the other. For me they really have nothing to do with each other. Mechanics make for a fun game if they're good. Fluff makes for a fun story if its good. I'll make up my own fun story if I need to.

 

Also we are massively going off topic, this is supposed to be Ork Tactica :) Not that it matters much in a relatively inactive forum but still :)

[Mr Smith]

 

 

Also we are massively going off topic, this is supposed to be Ork Tactica Not that it matters much in a relatively inactive forum but still

 

 

You asked for critique and general debate.  This is getting pretty general.

[lordsloth]

 

 

 

Also we are massively going off topic, this is supposed to be Ork Tactica Not that it matters much in a relatively inactive forum but still

 

 

You asked for critique and general debate.  This is getting pretty general.

 

 

I was kind of hoping for tactica debate about my list or general tactica debate about the faction given the annual. What not with the title of the thread being orks tactica and all.

I was not expecting fluff debates. Now I enjoy fluff debates, I'm just thinking it might not be the point of this specific thread is all (again, given the title)

[Mr Smith]

 

 

I was kind of hoping for tactica debate about my list or general tactica debate about the faction given the annual. What not with the title of the thread being orks tactica and all.

I was not expecting fluff debates. Now I enjoy fluff debates, I'm just thinking it might not be the point of this specific thread is all (again, given the title)

 

 

With rules for demeanours now, the fluff is getting tactical.

[lordsloth]

 

 

 

I was kind of hoping for tactica debate about my list or general tactica debate about the faction given the annual. What not with the title of the thread being orks tactica and all.

I was not expecting fluff debates. Now I enjoy fluff debates, I'm just thinking it might not be the point of this specific thread is all (again, given the title)

 

 

With rules for demeanours now, the fluff is getting tactical.

 

 

Then feel free to discuss those, I don't buy white dwarfs so I'm sure its interesting

[Mr Smith]

 

 

Then feel free to discuss those, I don't buy white dwarfs so I'm sure its interesting

 

 

I didn't buy it either, but I saw they were included.  I'll wait for the annual to come out.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I just got donated a box of Ork Boyz that i will want to turn into a KT. Any suggestions for someone who might want tl buy 1 more box of orks and thats it?