RedFurioso Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabenga Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Poor molech. I knew him horatio... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 So the fact that 'detailed heraldry' has been mentioned a few times suggests SG might realise that they missed the boat somewhat on that in Titandeath. Could bode well for this, although none of the knight houses that have already featured prominently in AT - Malinax, Makabius, etc - seem to have been mentioned in Vengeful Spirit. I'm jazzed to see how exactly they'll even the odds between a force of knights and a mixed force. That they're absolute little killers has been the big surprise of AT as a game for me but not sure they can hack it on their own. Hopefully the strategems are interesting, wouldn't be too impressive if all knights had was the benefit of running a horde. Fingers crossed on the Acastus chassis showing up just outside the current preview window! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I would assume Makabius would be present since the XIVth Legion was and the Knight House was enthralled to them. I'm definitely looking forward to rules for fielding a Knight House and I think battles pitting Knights against Knights or even against a Titan Maniple could be a lot of fun (albeit a bit one sided facing Titans). It would be great to see some traits for the various Houses of 30K as well, considering FW never went that far into detail on any of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 If this is actually out within their 3-month preview window I will be so happy Love the fuchsia/purple/gold look of Devine in the earliest stages of their fall. I wonder if we'll see a color plate for their original green heraldry or not? I wouldn't be concerned if we don't as space in these seems tight, but it would be interesting. Also worth noting that their Titandeath colors are listed as purple/gold, but here their main color is clearly the red-fuchsia. Those lists are so weird! I'm having a lot of trouble trusting them. I'm really looking forward to seeing Heresy-era Vulcanum, too. It seems like both I & II (Dark Fire & Lords of Ruin) will share rules? This was reported on FB's AT group: Vulcanum are weird, two Legios on one FW. Weird things with their princeps. I hope they liven up Crucius's 30k scheme a bit, too. It was cool in IA10, but today it basically just looks like Mortis's minus the red sections. In the same vein, the takes on Interfector and Vulcanum I/II have been all red, dark green, and black respectively, which are maybe just their schemes after spending time in the Eye and truly falling. Heresy-era schemes could be wildly different and very cool, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!Gryphonicus, Mortis, and Vulpa should reappear in this a little bit, too. Maybe just as the color plates for new maniples or something, or they may just get a lot of fluff mentions. Here's hoping Hyboras or some other Vulpa-aligned House ends up being one of the 7 Houses... Otherwise, it seems likely we'll see what they've already done art and transfers for. Vyronii, Malinax, Makabius (Death Guard are present in force, so extra likely), and Coldshroud are strong contenders. There are supposed to be many other Knight Houses from Molech too, so maybe a betrayed Molechian House that doesn't quite get annihilated with the majority of them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Can't wait for another supplement - and I wonder how long we're going to have to wait before we get to play around with this. Does the 3 month preview window really apply to Forge World? Or are they going to hold it back until ~June to stagger the books evenly? Happy with the choice of content. Would have preferred that there be more than 4 Titan Legions in a book, but that doesn't matter so much if they really are going to be able to pump out 2 books a year. Like Sandlemad I'm really interested in how a Knight force is going to play on the tabletop. They're not for me, I love the larger stompy deathbots far too much, but if it gives me the opportunity to try out different loadouts and maintain a more versatile force then their involvement can only be a good thing for the game. None of the 4 Legions are ones I'm a big fan of (although the name "Murder Lords" is so absurdly metal) but maybe some swanky rules and art will bring me around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandragola Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Knight houses are a good thing for certain. To be honest I’m not too sure I like the idea of all-knight armies though. For me, the cool thing about Titanicus is thinking about stuff like fire arcs and limited turns. “Infantry” who ignore all of that exist in loads of other games already, and I’m not sure we need them in AT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Knight houses are a good thing for certain. To be honest I’m not too sure I like the idea of all-knight armies though. For me, the cool thing about Titanicus is thinking about stuff like fire arcs and limited turns. “Infantry” who ignore all of that exist in loads of other games already, and I’m not sure we need them in AT. Couldn't disagree more. The "land battleships" angle is one form of tactical depth, not the only one possible, and the possibility of running an all-Knights list is something I've been hoping for since AT was announced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipOffProductions Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Knight houses are a good thing for certain. To be honest I’m not too sure I like the idea of all-knight armies though. For me, the cool thing about Titanicus is thinking about stuff like fire arcs and limited turns. “Infantry” who ignore all of that exist in loads of other games already, and I’m not sure we need them in AT. I'm sure that if we get some of the bigger classes of Knight, like the Acastus, that those might use firing arcs, after all that thing is almost as big as a Warhound, and will no doubt be bigger than the new Rapier Scout Titans that we keep hearing about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Almost as big as a Warhound with better armament. The Porphyrion is no joke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Hail! Really excited about the Moloch expansion. I actually really liked the "Vengeful Spirit" novel, and since the Knight models are fantastic little buggers, I am excited to see it will be possible to play a game with them solo. In the future, it would be lovely to have the game open up for other 30k Lord of War choices - I would be ectastic to see a full squadron of Baneblades, Shadowswords and what not in the game. They are, after all, pretty much the same size as the Questoris Knights... Faithfully, Master Ciaphas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandragola Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I've nothing against the principle of the book, but I do think knights lack the crunch of the rules for titans - which is one of the things that defines AT. There are already plenty of games for 28mm infantry - which is basically what knights are. I'm very happy to see another expansion coming so soon, and knights definitely do need fleshing out. I probably won't choose to run an all-knight army, but you never know. I do have quite a lot of them. I'm a little surprised that they've picked Molech for the setting. From what I recall (it's a few years since I read the book) there wasn't actually much knight-on-knight combat. And there was only one titan involved - an Imperator for which we don't yet have rules. The vast majority of the fighting seems to have been Legionaries against Imperial Army. I'm curious to see how they make scenarios for AT out of this setting - it strikes me it would be far more suitable for 30k. It's not one of my favourite books of the series to be honest. From what I remember it involved Horus picking probably the worst possible drop site on the planet, so he could do some sightseeing. Then a long overland march for the SoH, during which time weirdly nobody nuked the lot of them. We keep hearing about how the heresy was an awful time when forbidden weapons were unleashed, but it doesn't appear to have occurred to anyone that the ideal time to do this would be when Horus and the best part of his Legion were walking across the surface of a planet in a big mass. I'm pretty sure I'd have fired off a bunch of cyclonic torpedos at them from orbit, and then driven the battleship into them afterwards, just to be sure. Anyway that's enough moaning. Maybe this means we'll get rules for the Imperator. I doubt they'll be in the book, because the rules for titans aren't generally in books anyway, but you never know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Yeah, the Manachean Campaign was more Household v. Household combat, but the participants weren't as extensive as Molech. I think the only Titan Legion involved (at least on the Traitor side) was Tempestus. Then again, the only thing we have to go by concerning the Molech campaign was from the POV of those around Horus, we don't know what else is going on. The rendered the entire novel obsolete anyhow with the Spear of Russ garbage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendi Warrior Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Rules for an Imperator would be cool, a model even more, and a plastic one would truly be heaven (but I am not holding my breath). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Rules for an Imperator would be cool, a model even more, and a plastic one would truly be heaven (but I am not holding my breath). If AT keeps doing as well, as it's doing now, I wouldn't completely rule out a (Resin) Imperator, some years in the future. Even if they said not to hold our breaths. That wasn't a clear no and if the demand is there, they'll make one eventually. Even just to prove they can do it. There are, apparently enough people that buy 28mm scale Titans, there will be enough people ready to own a friggin Imperator Titan. Just my take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achinadav Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I'd like to see rules for barons, etc, of the knight households. They're already deadly little beasts when up close, so I wouldn't want to see the knight commanders get much more killy. More like command roll bonuses (OK, that's dead obvious) or unique orders that they can issue to knights. Given the mention of more exotic cerastus knights (atrapos and something else) in Titandeath, I hope we'll see them coming out for this expansion. Where I see a bit of a problem for the acastus knights is that they start to tread on the feet of warhounds if they're more manoeuvrable and have comparable weapons (I don't know anything about them other than seeing pictures of the 40K models). They might make better scout titans than the scout titans! Or are they really slow? More like semi-mobile artillery pieces? There's also the rumoured other scout titan. I can't remember if it was bigger than the 'hound or smaller. If it smaller, and about the size of an acastus, the line between knight & titan starts to blur. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I have a feeling Acastus will be slow and lumbering but bristling with effective ranged weaponry. As-is, Knights are only really effective when closing in for the kill. Their ranged potency has a lot to be desired. I think this is where the Acastus and Atrapos will come into play. At the end of the day they're still at a disadvantage against proper Titans when it comes to durability and options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandragola Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 It is indeed a blurred line between small titans and big knights. Bigger knights might start to have individual consoles, I guess, though they don’t have them in 40k... it’s a slightly odd thing that titans have so much more detailed rules at 6mm than 28mm. My take would be that the big knights would be pretty slow, and have good armour (potentially equal to or better than that of the zippy warhound). And I guess they could easily come in around 75% of the cost of a warhound. They obviously fulfil a very different role as fire support, so oddly they could be less of a threat to titans than lancers. Also I don’t know if they’d do Acastus knights first, or Dominus. Being FW they might prioritise their own things, but I think dominus might be easier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Meh... The Dominus is kind of an upgrade to the Questoris. Certainly not in size. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipOffProductions Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 in the Voxcast, Jess Goodwin said that part of the Armiger's early design concept was for them to be more focused on supporting the larger knights, tieing in to their squire theme; carring additional ammo or doing minor repair work for their lords, and maybe taking a hit for them. I could see these types of Armigers making their way into AT, acting like 40K "upgrades/familiars/relics" to a Lance of larger knight variants, sense the more combat focused Armigers wouldn't really have a place in the meta until the game re-expands into Epic and adds infantry and other such tiny units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 From Garro on FB: I believe there are 6 or so knight households in the book (most appear in the Vengeful spirit book) If this is right, then I guess the Houses we're likely to see could include House Tazhkar, House Kaushik, House Indra, House Kaska, House Mamaragon, House Donar, and of course, House Devine. Most of those are passing name-drops from Vengeful Spirit so there's jack for info on them, Devine and Donar being exceptions. But that would make 7 Houses, which is a number we've heard from other sources. I kind of doubt we'll see literally all 7 Houses mentioned in Vengeful Spirit, but who knows? I'd rather see a mix, personally Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5248816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 If this is right, then I guess the Houses we're likely to see could include House Tazhkar, House Kaushik, House Indra, House Kaska, House Mamaragon, House Donar, and of course, House Devine. Most of those are passing name-drops from Vengeful Spirit so there's jack for info on them, Devine and Donar being exceptions. But that would make 7 Houses, which is a number we've heard from other sources. I kind of doubt we'll see literally all 7 Houses mentioned in Vengeful Spirit, but who knows? I'd rather see a mix, personally Some of those houses are mentioned as only having the barest handful of knight suits though, e.g. House Kaushik only had six suits. They could nudge this a little by saying "only six at this battle" or whatever but these are all local houses from Molech without much role in the heresy outside of their role in Horus's invasion. They could be fleshed out but frankly if we're getting household rules and details I'd rather they went to better known houses. Just got the latest WD and I'm wondering if the vassal knight household rules and background could be a kind of preview of this book? They're done up fairly tightly in the AT rules format and look like any given page in Titandeath. If this is under development now, it doesn't seem impossible that the team took a few finished pages and essentially slotted them into WD. Quite a bit of House Coldshroud stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5249042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipOffProductions Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just got the latest WD and I'm wondering if the vassal knight household rules and background could be a kind of preview of this book? They're done up fairly tightly in the AT rules format and look like any given page in Titandeath. If this is under development now, it doesn't seem impossible that the team took a few finished pages and essentially slotted them into WD. Quite a bit of House Coldshroud stuff. what are the rules for that vassal knight maniple thing? are they even worth buying an issue of White Dwarf for? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5249339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just got the latest WD and I'm wondering if the vassal knight household rules and background could be a kind of preview of this book? They're done up fairly tightly in the AT rules format and look like any given page in Titandeath. If this is under development now, it doesn't seem impossible that the team took a few finished pages and essentially slotted them into WD. Quite a bit of House Coldshroud stuff. what are the rules for that vassal knight maniple thing? are they even worth buying an issue of White Dwarf for? Eh, it's a good feature and really does look like it was clipped out of an AT book (maybe from Titandeath for space come to think of it?) so not sure if that quite makes it worthwhile if it's the only thing you're getting WD for. There's a short intro page in the usual WD style, then a page and a half of good background on vassal houses: what they are, how their cultures are shaped, their general naming conventions, their typical materiel strength and two paragraphs each on four famous houses (Coldshroud, Morbidia, Perdaxia and Procon Vi). Broadly they're less individual and more dutiful than normal knight houses. There's also a two-page spread of a Coldshroud lancer with notes on heraldry. Then you have a page laid out in the same fashion as the maniple sections in Titandeath, art and all, for the Dominus Battleforce Maniple. Mandatory components are one warlord, two reavers and one banner of questoris or cerastus knights. You can add in two warhounds and a further questoris or cerastus banner. Maniple traits are Auspex Bafflers: the knights foil enemy auspexes with their voxes but give away their position. Attacks are at -1 to hit when aimed at a titan which is within 6" of a knight banner, as long as both are visible to the attacker. Knight banners in the maniple can't benefit from obscuring cover. Noble sacrifice: Titans can transfer a hit they receive from a ranged attack to a knight banner within 6" I don't think it's amazing but it's fairly different to the Janissary maniple, which is good to see. Less focus on manoeuvre and combined arms, more focus on knights as a pure screening force for their titans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5249365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It seems decent enough and if your opponent plays Tempestus you can pretty much negate is Chasmata Lasers. Having Look Out Sir on Knights is useful as I'd rather lose a cheap Knight than n expensive Warlord or something to ranged damage. Something tells me Molech is already done. If it's being released late summer / fall it's probably at the press right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353596-doom-of-molech-supplement-discussion/#findComment-5249376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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