Vanguard Primaris Marines - Intro Thread

[Ishagu]

The dislike is a bit surprising. The models are amazing.

 

Maybe people don't want snipers and would rather have a cc unit, but that's subjective.

[Robbienw]

Its not surprising.  Some people have expressed a dislike of the looks of Reivers, these new guys look like Reivers, thus people who disliked Reivers are probably likely to also dislike these Reiver replacements vanguard marines.

 

You may find that amazing, but remember people have different aesthetic likes.  Its subjective  

[Sete]

Tell me Ishagu, in which army of warrior monks does the spec ops operative vibe fits?

Black Templars

Space Wolves

Raven Guard

Salamanders

Ultramarines

White Scars

Dark Angels

Blood Angels

Iron Hands

Imperial Fists

Crimson Fists

 

And you are surprised at people not being particularly excited about a release that does not fit the theme of their army?

Im sure a sneaky vanguard led by a sneaky librarian will be at home in a Black Templar army.

[Race Bannon]

Ok gang: this thread is to discuss the new Vanguard Marines stuff.

 

 

 

[Panzer]

Tell me Ishagu, in which army of warrior monks does the spec ops operative vibe fits?

Black Templars

Space Wolves

Raven Guard

Salamanders

Ultramarines

White Scars

Dark Angels

Blood Angels

Iron Hands

Imperial Fists

Crimson Fists

 

And you are surprised at people not being particularly excited about a release that does not fit the theme of their army?

Im sure a sneaky vanguard led by a sneaky librarian will be at home in a Black Templar army.

Well ... kinda all of them I guess. They aren't all sword and bolter swinging knights and thanks to Scouts and bikes there was always some vanguard element. Well maybe not Black Templars but you guys are special snowflakes anyway. :P

[Sete]

That's a hell of a stretch and you know it. ;)

Hopefully this will be part of a bigger release.

[Dumah]

I like the sculpts, especially the Jedi- err, Librarian. Sad about the lack of close combat specialists/biker equivalents.

[bolvar]

The new primarines have left me colder than Horus corpse, SPECIALLY their heads (new sci-fi cool guys like Robbiewn said in page 1), they don't feel right. Damn it, if they wanted to add sniper marines, they could've worked around this line: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-ES/Legion-MKIV-Recon-Squad (30k recon squads)

 

They are closer to another sci-fi range models from any of the various companies that sell look-a-like space marines but with better definition/cleaner, flashy look. And, as always, being in ultramarine colours doesn't help a bit

 

The new CSM look better in comparison with the range of CSM models, at least for the chaos marines, the new hellbrute and the demon spider thing don't look entirely GW-40k-esque. But don't take my word, after all, I'm not a CSM player, maybe they feel like me with their new models too.

 

 

In summary, a new edgy witch and even more cool-shooty snipy primarines that don't even look like marines, and a newfound feeling of sadness at the thought that this will be the new line of work of GW. Guess that I won't even bother with yet another new release.

[Ishagu]

I complete disagree.

First of all the models are infinitely better than the recon squad from 30k so I'm not going to entertain an argument there.

 

Primaris models in general look less like the scroll wearing, super bling, walking cathedrals of the past so nothing about the style of the aesthetic surprises me in a negative way. They look like the natural continuation of the Primaris line and also, another case where the new models aren't just an up-sized version of existing things.

 

These are hard hitting snipers with different ammunition types, so are probably more similar to a Vindicare than the regular Sniper Scouts and will certainly be more resilient. The new Librarian sounds like he has abilities and powers specifically themed to deployment and infiltration and I find that very exciting.

 

This is just a tease of what is to come. The second wave won't just be a pack of 3 Snipers and a Librarian so we should be patient.

 

As for the loss of the religious/zealous monk aesthetic that's not a surprise. Primaris are more in line with the Astartes from the Horus Heresy and the less bling, more function look is actually appreciated by many including myself. And for the record, Snipers have always been in the theme of Marine armies. These are the best sniper models I've seen from GW.

[Ishagu]

Just to add, GW have confirmed that what has been shown isn't everything in the box of the next set.

[bolvar]

I'm glad that you like this new line of minis Ishagu, really. Nothing feels better in this hobby than to keep getting even more models that you like.

 

But for me, the last releases don't feel like the 40k I knew. If I had to choose between buying anything from the primarines line, including this last 2 releases (the new psyker and the sniper ones), and buy yet more tactical squads + BT sprues for more crusader squads, or cataphractii terminators, or land raiders, or anything that is not primarine collection, I'd get the 2nd without hesitation.

[Robbienw]

The Forgeworld recon marines and the Vigilator and the fluff around them must have been the inspiration and basis for these guys.  Remember in the 30k fluff there are instances of whole recon companies fighting together, not just a few squads here and there. 

 

I ageee with Bolvar on the sadness that this is the direction GW is taking.  I used to love all the periodic marines releases and get mega hyped and buy loads of new stuff, its weird not feeling the same with the last 2 big marine primaris releases :(

[phoenix01]

When I first heard "Vanguard", I thought, "Wow, new Vanguard Veteran models, giving some love to old style marines." Then, I heard "Vanguard Primaris", so I thought, "Okay, Primaris Veterans with close combat weapons, even better." Then I saw the pictures on Warhammer Community, and I thought, "Meh."

 

Don't get me wrong, the sculpts are very cool, but more shooty Primaris, especially in Mk X Reiver armor, was not the earthshaking reveal I was hoping for.

[Panzer]

I'm glad that you like this new line of minis Ishagu, really. Nothing feels better in this hobby than to keep getting even more models that you like.

 

But for me, the last releases don't feel like the 40k I knew. If I had to choose between buying anything from the primarines line, including this last 2 releases (the new psyker and the sniper ones), and buy yet more tactical squads + BT sprues for more crusader squads, or cataphractii terminators, or land raiders, or anything that is not primarine collection, I'd get the 2nd without hesitation.

Well that's probably because it indeed isn't the 40k you knew but for some reason you keep expecting it'll be.

[bolvar]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that things change over time.

 

For example, I remember when centurions (both assault and devastator) came out. At first I don't like them too much, but time has passed and I can see them fitting in my collection and using them. That's not the case for me regarding primaris line.

 

I know that they are pushing primaris now, it's their latest work and they need to establish it until a proper collection is out. I only hope that we'll see something that isn't entirely PRIMARIS, PRIMARIS THIS AND PRIMARIS THAT, all flashy like the latter release they've made. Something not primaris for SM, that's all I ask.

[Lord Raven 19]

I can see them in the black of deliverance. If they have an inbuilt -1 to hit, with raven guard, tau will love them.

[Boldthreat]

This was unexpected on my end. Hey all, sorry for being awol the last few months. Life has taken an unexpected turn and I’m glad there is new news to argue about and get my mind back on to warhammer again.

 

I’m excited by what I see. I’m trying to completely analyze what the existence of Primaris Vanguard Space Marines means. So good news:

 

We got another vital clue about Primaris organization. There is a whole company of Unconventional Space Marines called the Vanguard. Is this the new 10th company? They all seem to wear the new chest badge that the Reavers have. So the assumption is that the Reievers fit into this organization. I like that. That’s what I always thought would be the case. We see a reaver captain and lt, plus a librarian. We have reaver heavy support squads in the Eliminators, and an as of yet unspecified troops choice that looks awesome as well. This actually makes me like Reavers (I know I’m not being consistent in my spelling..). I’m expecting some kind of landspeeder storm type vehicle to go with them. Regardless this is cool. I want to know more.

 

I love the clean elite look. For my tastes, I’m digging the more sci fi trooper look over the ever devolving madness of more skulls and scrolls cathedral stuff. It actually reminds me more of 2nd and 3rd edition in a way. Which is a good thing but I know that’s subjective. Gw is honing in on the perfect balance on that front for me.

 

The implications on what this could mean in the future is cool too. Will there be an all Gravis company like the Vanguard? We already have a gravis fast attack and heavy support option... a gravis Battle line squad? Gravis Captain and xo? Oh man they could go anywhere with this. And that’s exciting.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

The only unit I don't really mind are the Eliminators, and that's just because they seem fairly similar to the old Scout Snipers, which weren't particularly baroque to begin with. Even then, I don't plan to buy them simply because they just don't align with the established themes and lore of the Marines I play, with the exception of Deathwatch.

As for the Vanguard line as a whole, I can see them fitting in well with a Raptors, Mentor Legion, or perhaps a Raven Guard army, but not as much for other chapters.

 

The one thing I do like is the helmet of the marine depicted here, which has the older Mk. VII/VIII-esque mouth grill coupled with the Reiver gasmask filter things.

 

Even then, I don't expect that I will have any use for them aside from putting the helmets on Intercessors.

 

I'm happy there are people who like the Vanguard stuff, but it's not what I was personally looking for to expand my various Marines. I'll try and remain hopeful that we will see something like a CQC squad in Tacticus pattern Mk. X, or some jump pack melee guys, but unfortunately I'm getting the sense that it will be a while.

[Schlitzaf]

Okay there is the Libby and the Sniper Squad. Anything else revealed?

[Marshal Reinhard]

I feel that's just a little too narrowminded. It's not like only white scars use bikes? Fists only use devestators, etc?

 

I can agree that they're perhaps not Templar, but on what grounds don't they fit other chapters? Since when did all chapters become tunnel visioned and only did on single tactic as their sole thing? ALL Codex chapters have ALL had a scout company, they're a good candidate for ALL those chapters.

 

 

Okay there is the Libby and the Sniper Squad. Anything else revealed?

 

only artwork, and a very blurry picture of a marine standing in front of the obliterator 

[FlamingDeth]

As mentioned in a different thread, totally becoming my new command squad for my tenth company. I don't particularly like reaver armor so it'll take a fair bit of converting but stealthy armor will fit better than regular power armor.

[Sete]

When Jes *I made Space Marines* Goodwin says "This is how I would have made Space Marines had I been able to at the time", then yeah, I'm pretty serious.

 

You can feel that he's wrong, but that doesn't make you right, and if I was going to choose a single voice for what Space Marines should be, then I'll listen to Jes.

 

Rik

 

I'll leave the answer here Rik.

In the span of 30 years, he had more than ample opportunity to make Marines as he saw fit.

And yet for a good part of those 30 years we had the warrior monk marine lore built upon and expanded. If you want to believe his words, which I would just consider marketing to sell these marines "he always wanted to do" be my guest.

You may believe him for what space marines should be, I'm talking about what space marines are. And how can I be wrong if I'm just telling you what space marines have been for these past 30 years?

[Lemondish]

I love that Primaris are further being positioned as their own thing aesthetically. The best part of a lack of baroque imagery and symbols? You can add them. Much easier than removing them.

 

In any case, I love the Primaris pieces suggested here. Just going to echo one concern for my Crimson Fists...a red leather glove might look gaudy lol

[Marshal Reinhard]

Honestly, if you compare the intercessor kit with the tactical kit, or these new eliminators vs the old scouts with sniper rifles, where exactly is this huge difference in the ammount of baroque imagery they have?

 

Yes there's some heavy ornate veteran units not yet available for Primaris.... but I feel like some people got rid of their objectivity long ago when looking at these things

[Mmmmm Napalm]

I feel that's just a little too narrowminded. It's not like only white scars use bikes? Fists only use devestators, etc?

 

I can agree that they're perhaps not Templar, but on what grounds don't they fit other chapters? Since when did all chapters become tunnel visioned and only did on single tactic as their sole thing? ALL Codex chapters have ALL had a scout company, they're a good candidate for ALL those chapters.

 

 

Okay there is the Libby and the Sniper Squad. Anything else revealed?

 

only artwork, and a very blurry picture of a marine standing in front of the obliterator 

I should have been more specific. It's not that they don't fit any chapters other than those I mentioned, but I think that they are more limited in their application than, say, Intercessors. Stealth based units as a significant part of the new Marine roster feels weird to me. For me personally, the idea of stealthy space marines always struck me as odd, given that they're large transhumans in heavy plate that, depending on the marine in question, can be anywhere between 7 and 8 feet tall.

 

That isn't to say that surprise/stealth isn't a part of space marine tactics, but in regards to power armored infantry I've always thought of the emphasis as being rapid, brutal assaults that catch the enemy by surprise. Space Marines are shock troops, at their core. When the power armored dudes attack, it's not quiet or subtle, but it's fast. The Marines usually don't bother with staying quiet once the fighting has started because they don't really need to be; they're quick and efficient enough to be effective even when the enemy can see them a mile away wearing vibrant heraldry.

 

Of course, there are chapters that have a great focus on stealth such as Raven Guard and Raptors, and as I said previously Vanguard will be perfect for them, and I can see plenty of other chapters using them too. That said, I don't see something like Reivers (which I presume are the Close Support element of the Vanguard), appealing to someone devoted to the fluff of the Imperial Fists, or the Iron Hands. The Eliminators are the exception, as I can see the IF having a squad of those as urban snipers.