Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Thats not a bad idea. Oaths of penitence galore and an opportunity for readmission if they don't die? No! Wait, I have it! They're the Knight's Watch! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiel Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Right now, I think we have at least 11 squads that can go into a battle company and have been shown with Gold Trim on their Ultramarine armour. Assault Marines Tactical Marines Devastator Marines Centurion Assault Marines Centurion Devastator Marines Inceptors Intercessors Hellblasters Agressors Reivers Vanguard Marines (the ones shown with gold trim on their shoulderpads) That's 11 squads, who have all been implied to be members of 2nd company at one point or another. This leads me to think that the company size restrictions could be lifted from the codex astartes. Another possibility is that Ultramarines might be getting more companies, and at least one of those new companies has gold trim (similar to 2nd Company). The final possibility is that GW didn't plan this out too much and it doesn't mean anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Right now, I think we have at least 11 squads that can go into a battle company and have been shown with Gold Trim on their Ultramarine armour. Assault Marines Tactical Marines Devastator Marines Centurion Assault Marines Centurion Devastator Marines Inceptors Intercessors Hellblasters Agressors Reivers Vanguard Marines (the ones shown with gold trim on their shoulderpads) That's 11 squads, who have all been implied to be members of 2nd company at one point or another. This leads me to think that the company size restrictions could be lifted from the codex astartes. Another possibility is that Ultramarines might be getting more companies, and at least one of those new companies has gold trim (similar to 2nd Company). The final possibility is that GW didn't plan this out too much and it doesn't mean anything. GW tends to paint all of their stuff for an army the same, so that when they do promotional shots or battle reports everything matches. Ultramarines 2nd company is their chosen Ultras scheme, so I don't think there's anything to be inferred from it. They most likely just want it all to look pretty together for family photos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Could have fixed the legs whilst they were at it I honestly think their legs are made that way, or were made that way for Plug N Play Greaves. but then the idea was tossed out, and they never redesigned it Here is my theory and I honestly believe it is the truth. The legs were designed that because RL reivers (yes they are actually a thing) were know to have boots that folded over at the top. So the reiver have a extra armor plate hinting toward that fold. Now they might make a lore (oh because x reason) but the artist reason I believe is that gesture to those old boots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 After a 5 hour flight, I found a solution for the vanguard. Taking inspiration from White Scars I will use the Vanguard as my Grey Talons Sagyar Mazan ;) Disgraced Marines will join the Vanguard with an oath of silence, shunned from the main chapter, not being able to use the chapter colours and always volunteers in suicide missions. Edit: and not to one-up you but I got off 22 hours of flying....lol See while I agree with you with alot of things Sete, we are at odds here. Yes we both like glorious melee, we both hate psykers, etc. However our method of combat differs. While you rush your army up the front and center using transports or whatever to get into combat, which is fitting for a Templar. I often setup ranged units to lure my opponents in and then outflank/deep strike and rush into melee, which is fitting for a wolf. Neither is wrong however our unit choices will differ. So I will admit I am a fan of the Vanguard outflanking mechanisms but not their load outs, like the reivers, they just lack that melee power to justify them. That libraries though... Reposition the fingers a bit, remove all that librarian stuff, give him a proper melee weapon, put a SS on the right hand and a effect like a fireball slamming into it and it's perfect for a character/officer. However that left pauldron needs fixing and I am not sure how to do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced Hulk Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Right now, I think we have at least 11 squads that can go into a battle company and have been shown with Gold Trim on their Ultramarine armour. Assault Marines Tactical Marines Devastator Marines Centurion Assault Marines Centurion Devastator Marines Inceptors Intercessors Hellblasters Agressors Reivers Vanguard Marines (the ones shown with gold trim on their shoulderpads) That's 11 squads, who have all been implied to be members of 2nd company at one point or another. This leads me to think that the company size restrictions could be lifted from the codex astartes. Another possibility is that Ultramarines might be getting more companies, and at least one of those new companies has gold trim (similar to 2nd Company). The final possibility is that GW didn't plan this out too much and it doesn't mean anything. Pretty sure that Codex Space Marines states that the Battle Companies can be reinforced with units from the Reserve Companies, and that those squads may or may not change their heraldry to their new posting. So for example, a Tactical squad from the Seventh Company, and a Hellblaster squad from the Ninth, could both be attached to the already full strength Second Company. The Tacs become Squad 11 and the Hellblasters become Squad 12, and they both change their shoulder trims to yellow/gold. It was one of my favourite changes in the last codex, as it shows how the Chapter as a whole functions, and how the reserve companies actually fight. Previously, you almost had the sense that the Reserves were just hanging around, waiting for casualties to happen in the Battle Companies so they could be assigned combat duties. Which always seemed pretty wasteful as the reserves make up almost half the Chapter's strength. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Taking inspiration from White Scars I will use the Vanguard as my Grey Talons Sagyar Mazan ;) Disgraced Marines will join the Vanguard with an oath of silence, shunned from the main chapter, not being able to use the chapter colours and always volunteers in suicide missions. Yeah, this, this is a good idea. I'd do these as from a new Primaris founding, and their Vanguard forces deploy in camoflagued armour, rather than Chapter livery. Tbh, part of me wants to start viewing Primaris as distinct from the established Astartes we've collected and gamed with for almost 30 years. As GW establishes them more, they'll resemble their own thing - less like the Chapters of old, more akin to the Legions of the Crusade - but different in ways. Realistically, I think we have to prepare for GW phasing out the traditional 'Old-Marines', at least in terms of what they sell (whether they keep them in the Codex, or bring out one so 'veteran' hobbyists can carry on using them in games). It might be in 3 years, 6 years, or even 10. How do I feel about this? Well, admittedly nor as aggrieved as I know many other players will be. I can make two armies of 'Old-Marines', as well as Kill Teams, and I'm quite happy to leave it at that. I'm resigned that GW will never give them the rules they deserve, so I'm happy to leave it at collecting and painting. I'll say one thing - at least GW are beginning to put more diversity in Primaris; you can take a force based around Intercessors, or a force based around Vanguard. I'm sure they'll be more to come. However we feel about it, the future's Primaris. It is what it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Yes we both like glorious melee, we both hate psykers, etc. However our method of combat differs. While you rush your army up the front and center using transports or whatever to get into combat, I take issue with my chapter identity being reduced to simply just going forward to get into melee, or was this soley directed at Sete? But to be fair my impression of wolves is that you're more akin to the loon who only runs forward than we are :P I guess we still have things to learn of each others' chapters ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Yes we both like glorious melee, we both hate psykers, etc. However our method of combat differs. While you rush your army up the front and center using transports or whatever to get into combat, I take issue with my chapter identity being reduced to simply just going forward to get into melee, or was this soley directed at Sete? But to be fair my impression of wolves is that you're more akin to the loon who only runs forward than we are :P I guess we still have things to learn of each others' chapters ;) More focused on Sete and how he has described his tactics. However BT are more forward about combat than my wolves in most apsects. My SW's are far from normal SW's. I am not sure where they fit anymore. They are Norse themed, and fit the historical concept (Ulfhendar outflanking, long boat beaching, lots of shields) which are often more serious than Hollywood portrays them. They did drink and raid but they have saying about not to drink too much. So My wolves are much more serious about combat and less howling idiots that run into combat to die needlessly like the other SW. Sometimes I wonder if I should just say they are RG at times. I just await for Russ and how GW will handle that when it comes... In short: my SW are more historical Norse, normal SW are more Hollywood Norse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Lightstar Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Right now, I think we have at least 11 squads that can go into a battle company and have been shown with Gold Trim on their Ultramarine armour. Assault Marines Tactical Marines Devastator Marines Centurion Assault Marines Centurion Devastator Marines Inceptors Intercessors Hellblasters Agressors Reivers Vanguard Marines (the ones shown with gold trim on their shoulderpads) That's 11 squads, who have all been implied to be members of 2nd company at one point or another. This leads me to think that the company size restrictions could be lifted from the codex astartes. Another possibility is that Ultramarines might be getting more companies, and at least one of those new companies has gold trim (similar to 2nd Company). The final possibility is that GW didn't plan this out too much and it doesn't mean anything. But Marines don't operate solely in one role, those Assault Marines and Assault Centurions could well be the same Marine. The same with Devastators. And Tactical Marines are meant to have trained in each of the other roles too, so could be deployed in any of those roles. We don't know yet if the same is true for the Primaris, but I'd expect so. Rik Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Jarl has it right. I love going front and center charging. Sometime not tactically sound but I have broken the back of Tau armies during their prime time like this. ( Sometimes it also ended badly xD) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5252944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I find this a bit of a mixed bag to be honest. I have always hated the Reiver armour, but the Eliminators are making me appreciate it more. The kneeling poses and additional webbing on the thighs plus the cloaks filling in the negative space that exists on the Reiver poses just make it click for me. The Librarian is ace, thought I am not so keen on the big yellow pipes down his chest (I know that is a Librarian feature, but it seems odd to have them exposed when he has the tunic and cloak - though having those items sculpted over the cables would look awful too). However, I really don't like the artwork of the models with MkVII-style helms and "stalker carbines" or bolt rifles. I figure I will take Intercessors still regardless of the rules because of the way they look. I love the Eliminators more and more each time I see them. I am just glad I never got around to building my Stalker Intercessors or Heavy Hellblasters for fire support in my all-Primaris force - the snipers will fit in perfectly. Chalk up another win for procrastination and hobby butterfly syndrome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5253284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 So far the only auto buy for me is the eliminators. I like the librarian but wish they had given him an axe. The exciting part is that those are we all we've seen, hoping for a flyer or landspeeder for these guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5253540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Spaced Hulk makes an interesting point re. The nature of reserve companies. I have come to think of them (and their officers) as a pool of guys who can reinforce the battle companies or be used to form sub company sized detachments for a variety of tasks. Personally I love the idea of an officer and his compatriots taking an oath and going off to fulfil a challenge. Which makes me think that the vanguard marines make more sense in a bigger chapter. The main fighting strength is the battle company but if vanguard are effectively their own battle company then there should be a corresponding increase in the numbers - say close to 2k I'm finding the transition from monastic order/brotherhood to real world formation very difficult to get my head around to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5253550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadass Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I'm not that keen on the Eliminators - the idea of an 8ft tall superhuman in armor that essentially turns him into a tank hiding in the shadows has always rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm digging that Librarian, and the other vanguard type is looking good too! Loving their boltguns and those big oxygen filters to the sides of the grille. Speaking of which; I hope that we'll get a proper mouth grille as shown in the Shadowspear trailer, and not that weird battle droid -esque beak that's depicted on the box set's artwork. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5253947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 After a 5 hour flight, I found a solution for the vanguard. Taking inspiration from White Scars I will use the Vanguard as my Grey Talons Sagyar Mazan Disgraced Marines will join the Vanguard with an oath of silence, shunned from the main chapter, not being able to use the chapter colours and always volunteers in suicide missions. They fit right into my idea. Space wolves: Irregular company: The Jackal Wolves ( No Great wolf, instead this chapter is made up of "spec ops" dirty and unconventional warfare marines. Scouts, Reivers, Wulfen, Lukas the Trickster) They can be co-opted by any Great company within the space wolves for any purpose. They assume the NOMAD fleet pattern and assit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5253979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Okay so I actually like how the new models look but am not quite sure wether I want to paint them up as Templars. I might Convert the witch to be a lt tho. Maybe its time to start painting some Necropolis hawks/sons of the phoenix for the primaris units that I dont want to include in my crusade, but like the look of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 What will be the point of Scouts after this?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 What will be the point of Scouts after this?? Recycle into eliminators... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 To produce new standard marines. That always was one of the main points of scouts. As we know standard marines are still being produced as well as Primaris in the current point of the 40k timeline. Scouts can still support marine forces in the battlezone as they do now. From the early information, it seems like vanguard are more of an independent strike force who are meant to disrupt enemy forces behind enemy lines type of thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 What will be the point of Scouts after this?? a) Not all Scouts are snipers; they come in two kits! b) What's the point of Assault Squads if you have Vanguard Veterans? Or Vanguard Veterans if you have Assault Terminators? Or Assault Terminators if you have Assault Centurions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 What will be the point of Scouts after this?? Aside from the fine points others have made, there's also their role as Neophytes in BT Crusader Squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 What will be the point of Scouts after this?? Depends on the rules, points costs, battlefield role etc. Scouts are the most capable troop choice for mono marines due to their deployment rules and low cost. Nothing about Eliminators suggests they'll be troops nor do we know how they'll deploy, what their points costs are, etc. so at this point the question should really be "what's the point of Eliminators since we already have scouts?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 And really, when was the last time you saw someone field Sniper Scouts anyway? If people take Scouts at all they are usually using them as forward-deploying Tactical-lite squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5254943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 And really, when was the last time you saw someone field Sniper Scouts anyway? If people take Scouts at all they are usually using them as forward-deploying Tactical-lite squads.When was the last time? Oh you sweet summer child ;) This past weekend at the LVO - 8th placed Astartes list. With GMan, sniper scouts are money. Great for mortal wound fishing. They're an amazing, highly competitive choice under those circumstances and it's a real surprise they aren't played more often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353711-vanguard-primaris-marines-intro-thread/page/5/#findComment-5255013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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