Vanguard Primaris Marines - Intro Thread

[Captain Idaho]

Certainly looks good.

 

Rules it's one of the following:

 

1) An Autocannon.

 

2) An Autocannon with +1 Strength.

 

3) An Autocannon with -2 AP.

 

You're dreaming if you think it'll be D3, 2 shots per model.

 

It's most likely a S8 Autocannon designed by Cawl.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Honestly with the firepower the other inceptors have it wouldn't shock me if they do have d3 auto cannons whether they're viable or not is another question 50 point 2 wound models aren't very effective in my experience. Hoping it's something new though a high strength d6 weapon is a big hole for primaris

[Lemondish]

It's a bloody space marine. They could be wearing a pink tutu and singing it's a wonderful life and it'd still be the most pants-gakking experience for any human or alien able to feel fear on account of it being the adeptus astartes. Slapping a skull on it doesn't suddenly make them scary, it makes them look like a cringe-y marketing appeal to the young call of duty crowd who love that Ghost character to death because of a silly skull baklava. All a Space Marine needs is a cameoline cloak with a storm bolter, they don't need a skull helmet that turns them into a walking non sequitur

I don't share your perspective here - can't even take it seriously on account of it dripping with entirely unnecessary snark.

 

Move and fire with heavy is likely I think. There's no way these weapons are:

Pistol

Assault

Rapid Fire

Because these ALL have associated rules which are unlikely to be appropriate to how they look like they should work.

 

Rik

I agree - move and fire with heavy. Doesn't feel right to encourage a weapon like that to close distance as rapid fire, or move fast like assault, or be usable in combat like pistols.

[Volt]

 

It's a bloody space marine. They could be wearing a pink tutu and singing it's a wonderful life and it'd still be the most pants-gakking experience for any human or alien able to feel fear on account of it being the adeptus astartes. Slapping a skull on it doesn't suddenly make them scary, it makes them look like a cringe-y marketing appeal to the young call of duty crowd who love that Ghost character to death because of a silly skull baklava. All a Space Marine needs is a cameoline cloak with a storm bolter, they don't need a skull helmet that turns them into a walking non sequitur

I don't share your perspective here - can't even take it seriously on account of it dripping with entirely unnecessary snark.

 

 

Wearing skull masks makes no logical sense to make space marine "terror troops". The Adeptus Astartes are terrifying in of themselves. They could wear anything, even be butt naked or wearing chaos warrior armor and they'd still be the most terrifying foes an enemy could face. Slapping a skull mask on them doesn't suddenly make them go from "not scary" to "mindwiping terror". If some Danish warriors are coming to pillage your village and ravage your family in AD 800, are you suddenly more scared because one of them is wearing a silly mask? Or the fact that they're killing you? Reiver lore is completely disconnected from any form of logic. 

[War Angel]

 

 

It's a bloody space marine. They could be wearing a pink tutu and singing it's a wonderful life and it'd still be the most pants-gakking experience for any human or alien able to feel fear on account of it being the adeptus astartes. Slapping a skull on it doesn't suddenly make them scary, it makes them look like a cringe-y marketing appeal to the young call of duty crowd who love that Ghost character to death because of a silly skull baklava. All a Space Marine needs is a cameoline cloak with a storm bolter, they don't need a skull helmet that turns them into a walking non sequitur

 

I don't share your perspective here - can't even take it seriously on account of it dripping with entirely unnecessary snark.

Wearing skull masks makes no logical sense to make space marine "terror troops". The Adeptus Astartes are terrifying in of themselves. They could wear anything, even be butt naked or wearing chaos warrior armor and they'd still be the most terrifying foes an enemy could face. Slapping a skull mask on them doesn't suddenly make them go from "not scary" to "mindwiping terror". If some Danish warriors are coming to pillage your village and ravage your family in AD 800, are you suddenly more scared because one of them is wearing a silly mask? Or the fact that they're killing you? Reiver lore is completely disconnected from any form of logic.

And yet the night lords paint skulls onto their helms.

[Rik Lightstar]

And yet the night lords paint skulls onto their helms.

Definitely let them know, along with the other less (but still quite) skull obsessed Chaos Legions, oh and Dark Reapers, and DeathJesters.

 

Tell the Necrons too that their stylised robo-skulls suck.

 

Even if the premise is accepted that a skull mask doesn't make them scarier, it certainly wouldn't detract from it.

 

Historically the use of masks like these has been about allowing the soldier as a person to be separate from the actions he performs within a specialist role, which is totally possible here.

 

Rik

[Captain Idaho]

Ultimately I suspect the reason many folk don't like the helms on Reivers is just because they don't look very good compared to other helms. GW created the image of Space Marines steadily over 30+ years, evolving them with trial and error and customer feedback.

 

Reivers feel contrived. They've come in with a completely new look and dynamic, forced their way in and people have rejected them on the whole. It's not a coincidence that the latest Primaris designs are much more in line with existing classic designs. And they look great for it.

[Ishagu]

I don't have any real problems with the Reivers. They aren't mandatory in any list and can be omitted quite easily.

 

They do look good on the tabletop. The skull helmet is symbolic and the main enemies of humanity are currently the heretics and traitors so it will be impactful to them.

 

Night Lords have always done it, and I'm not sure why it's OK in that case but not in this.

 

Edit: Typo

[Sete]

Because Nightlords have a theme.

They use their victims skins as capes and loincloths, they have bones adorning their armour, they have skulls/heads on their belts.

 

Reivers have a skull helmet on a clean generic design.

 

A skull helmet will always look better on a unit with a gothic look than in a clean sci fi armour.

[Ishagu]

And Guilliman took the most striking element of their theme without making them cartoon villains.

[Sete]

And Guilliman took the most striking element of their theme without making them cartoon villains.

Looooooooooooooool. Yeah Cawl made those armours terrifyingly bland.

 

The new look in the shadowspear box is a lot better with the clean operative look. With skull helms it's just feels like a schizophrenic mash of things to make it look desperately edgy.

[Ishagu]

I'm looking at the models right now, they look fine lol.

 

Not the best Primaris kit but not stupid either.

[Sete]

I'm looking at the models right now, they look fine lol.

 

Not the best Primaris kit but not stupid either.

If it works for you. I prefer them without the skull helm. This said I will try to get my hands on much as I can of those half masks coming in shadowspear. It's a great look for Reivers and Intercessors.

[Ishagu]

Some soldiers in real life have a skull bandana masks lol

 

It's a throwback to that. There's a real word precedent.

[Robbienw]

I reckon my prediction that wave 2 was delayed so they could tone down the Primaris look a bit was correct.

 

Removal of silly skull helm from reivers and replaced with a mk7 style helm. Lack of excessive plating, kneepad rims deleted, mk7 style helmet and no bucket hood on the flying devastators.

 

They still haven’t gone far enough, they have overdone the tacticool, the autocannon on the flying devastator is very oversized, the flying devastator still has comically oversized boots, and perhaps the most baffling thing they didn’t get rid of the Capri shorts on the new tactical reavers.

 

It’s a step in the right direction though.

[Sete]

Some soldiers in real life have a skull bandana masks lol

 

It's a throwback to that. There's a real word precedent.

Yeah I had a few brothers in arms that used some.

Hence why I said it looks desperately edgy.

[Ishagu]

That's a subjective opinion. Too many of their critics try to pass it off as an absolute. That's my only issue.

 

You don't have to like them, and thankfully you can completely ignore them.

[Sete]

That's a subjective opinion. Too many of their critics try to pass it off as an absolute. That's my only issue.

 

You don't have to like them, and thankfully you can completely ignore them.

That works both ways. You don't agree with my opinion, but your view is not absolute. It's your opinion aswell.

Oh I have been ignoring them, but thankfully I can still voice my displeasure at a product. Feedback creates better products for us costumers. If you don't like my negative feedback you can safely ignore it aswell. ;)

 

But then what's the point of having a echo chamber?

But for now I think the issue is solved. There are skull helms and normal helms. So I think both sides will be happy and GW will sell more kits.

[Ishagu]

I see plenty of the overly negative. A bit too much really. Haters looking for anything to nitpick.

[Panzer]

I reckon my prediction that wave 2 was delayed so they could tone down the Primaris look a bit was correct.

 

Removal of silly skull helm from reivers and replaced with a mk7 style helm. Lack of excessive plating, kneepad rims deleted, mk7 style helmet and no bucket hood on the flying devastators.

 

They still haven’t gone far enough, they have overdone the tacticool, the autocannon on the flying devastator is very oversized, the flying devastator still has comically oversized boots, and perhaps the most baffling thing they didn’t get rid of the Capri shorts on the new tactical reavers.

 

It’s a step in the right direction though.

 

I doubt that. Reiver are terror troops and the skull mask is part of their equipment. These guys aren't terror troops so there was never a reason for them to be wearing the same kind of mask in the first place. Also you don't see much plating and kneepad rims or bucket hoods because they are wearing different kind armour. Again, there was never a reason for the units we've seen so far to have those things in the first place.

You are saying they changed some details based on feedback, which would be great if true, however all the things you listed are details that wouldn't be on such units anyway so unless they also completely changed the theme of the units your theory doesn't hold.

 

Not to mention that it's just personal opinion. There are plenty people who like the skullmasks, kneepads, armour plating and the hoods. Same with this release. People like you say "buuhuuu tacticool this tacticool that" but there are also plenty people who point out that these Eliminators aren't really more tacticool that what we already had (especially in form of scouts) or simply don't have a problem with it. Likewise I'm sure there are plenty people who like the size of the Autocannon on the new guys. I for one do. The caprishorts complain though was always a silly one that stems from a weird paintjob on the Reivers by the 'eavy metal team but doesn't really hold true for the actual model unless someone is already biased against them anyway.

 

I feel like you are seriously overestimating your influence over what GW is releasing in such a short timeframe lol

[Sete]

I see plenty of the overly negative. A bit too much really. Haters looking for anything to nitpick.

And I see plenty of overly positive. And I see fewer people voicing their displeasure because it's becoming common in the forum's to harass and low key insult people who don't like a product.

I might come across as insufferable sometimes because i will voice my displeasure and I won't be intimidated by bullies in the forum.

 

The haters looking for anything to nitpick, is just another form of user harassment.

 

I don't like the skull helmets-my displeasure is aimed at the miniature design.

 

Haters looking for anything to nitpick- your displeasure is aimed at the user that does not agree with your opinion.

 

Obviously this works both ways aswell ;)

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'd refrain from make categoric statements.

[Panzer]

Honestly I see too much of the overly negative echo chamber about Primaris as well. It's fine to not like them and to voice that opinion but to repeat it over and over and over in every single thread and reducing their posts furter and further into short one sentence long almost meme-y outbursts instead of staying objective is getting really annoying. That's a very negative trend I've observed in this forum over the past months and it made me put some of the worst offenders on the ignore list already.

 

Likewise the overly positive Ishagu echo chamber is just as bad and non-productive. Luckily that's only one person though lol

[Sete]

Oh yeah absolutely, but let's veer this back on topic.

 

I'm hoping that there is more to wave 2 than just vanguard.

Honestly intercessors just need a option to take chainsword and bp.

A bolt pistol chainsword sprue on a veteran box for example.

 

Chaos apparently will have a big release, so expecting too much of primaris might lead to disappointment.

[Panzer]

I'm fine with Intercessors staying the way they are (with some adjusting to the Assault and Heavy profile of course) if we get some proper melee Troop choice eventually. Also it looks like we are getting some other kind of Troop choice with this vanguard release but so far it's completely unknown what makes them different except for them looking different on the artwork. Unfortunately they don't look like they are better in melee either though.