Honda Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Background: https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Inceptor Equipped with heavy Jump Packs and reinforced Mark X Gravis Power Armour, Inceptors can be dropped from the very edge of a planet’s atmospheric envelope. Leaping from the assault bays of low-orbiting Attack Craft, these daring warriors brave the fury of re-entry before locking their drop coordinates and jetting towards their objective like missiles. I am inferring from the bolded section, that it would seem that inceptors would enter the atmosphere feet first (green), then switch to a head first position at some point later in the entry (blue). Does that seem logical to others? Honda: "Yes, guy in the back row." Guy: "Why is this important?" Honda:"I'm doing research for a project, thanks for asking." Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 I don't see how the green part implies they get dropped feet first at first. If anything I'd actually expect them to go head first and then near their destination they switch position to feet first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Yeah I’d say head first when they leap too, more like a dive, you start on your feet (although how they use their feet with those stirrups on I don’t know) and dive headfirst out of the craft. Maybe like someone in a real word wing glider suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Agreed with the above, I've always envisioned it as leap out of a transport just like you would parachuting (seriously, leaping out so that you don't get killed by the transport's own structural elements if you hit them), tuck/maneuver into a head first dive like you would parachuting, then use thrusters and armor systems to flip back feet first at a certain altitude (or the chute opening to continue the parallel to parachuting), then use those same elements and the grav chute to slow them down so they don't rupture their armor upon landing. Not to mention, if you went feet first, you'd have some seriously awkward moments while you plummet trying to see and steer yourself by arching your neck and looking downward between your legs like a dingus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknife Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 I would expect it would be like a free fall parachuting. You go head first then land feet first. No reason that this would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Crusaders by Andy Clark has a description of an Inceptor Drop, it's head first, then a flip before landing.I wouldn't recommend reading it otherwise, it's dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 It's unclear really and our own assumptions are coming into play. Grammatically speaking it says leap rather than dive, which implies feet first over head first. However, logically speaking, I can't see steering with feet first whilst the jet packs are pointed down whilst also plummeting at extreme speeds, being practical. Practical in 40K though... it's a dude jumping off a space ship in only personal armour and steering with a big rocket. So maybe my last point has little bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyberos the Red Wake Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think when they say leap, they mean they literally do leap out of the bay from a standing position, but then tilt into a head-first dive. Honestly there's no way to know for sure, but just logically they should be diving head-first. But this is probably from our 21st century perspective, and let's be honest, it's just cooler that way. The Inceptor's bulky armor and huge thrusters just doesn't suit the "feet first into Hell" style jump a la Halo ODST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Ok, thank you for your thoughts, that all makes sense to me. My initial thoughts were towards head first, but I was then wondering if I should take the description literally. Part of me was wondering if the <whatever> stirrups had some sort of...deflector shield abilities in them, in which case, it "might" makes sense to go feet first. In any case, I'm happier going with the head first approach. Plus I can think of a Foreigner song that would be appropriate. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Belly flop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Seems like they keep, feet first. There's no steering involved as they enter the atmosphere, then after a certain altitude, they lick coordinates and go head first. Then once they are ready to land switch back to feet first obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilyth Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The round armoured visors of the inceptor armour do look like they're supposed to protect from the re-entry heat. Ignoring the guns and cables, the suits look like they've been shaped aerodynamically to support airflow from head to feet. Landing on a planet with an atmosphere, the inceptors probably fall head first until the atmosphere has slowed them down enough, then turn around and burn jets for the landing/hover mode. On a planet without atmosphere, they'll have to hover all the way since there's no atmosphere to slow their fall. Either way, they must pack a ridiculous amount of thrust and fuel to be able to drop in from orbit, slow down enough to not go squish, fly to their target and hop around near their target for long periods of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I could also see them falling belly first to be honest (which would probably transit to head first due them being rather top heavy) but yeah as Brokejaw said it doesn't really matter as long as they don't tumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 On the fuel point, they could have drop tanks for the, well, drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknife Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I’m not sure it really matters in a technical sense. They’re not regular human skydivers, but rather falling bricks, They don’t need to fall a certain way to effect speed or aerodynamics; they’re closer to a drop pod than a skydiving person. Their weight and shape make them fall at terminal velocity regardless of position, and their thrusters provide the means of slowing their descent before any impact. It kinda does. If you go freefalling with heavy kit then you need to achieve a position of dynamic stability. It means it prevents them from tumbling end over end which would be extremely dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 That’s not how the laws of physics work. If Astronauts ‘leap’ out of the International Space Station, they will be going up. Orbit isn’t zero G. It’s free falling, like jumping off a building. Except that the lateral speed is too high that you literally fall and miss the earth while you fall toward it. Since gravity is already attracting the Inceptors while they are in orbit in an attack craft (because that rule does not apply only to the craft but everything inside of it too, including cups, paper towels and Inceptors, all of them fall and miss the celestial body they orbit around) It means that if they want to move towards the planet, they have to ‘leap towards it’. Aka head first. They also won’t fall in a downwards pattern, more likely spiraling closer and around the planet until they reach upper atmosphere. The only times they would drop ‘directly straight down’ would be : - If they drop out of a geostationary orbit (the ship orbits the planet as fast as the planet rotates, like our modern satellites), but that is actually freakishly high orbit (about 35,700kilometers altitude for Terra) And that means that they would have to power down with IMMENSE acceleration towards their destination, over a distance that is literally almost the diameter as OUR ENTIRE planet, then POWER DOWN AND SLOW DOWN maaaaaaassively. I’m not even sure their bodies would sustain neither the acceleration or the deceleration. We’re talking reaching speed of Mach 30 to reach the target in about 1 hours. - Either they are indeed in low orbit, and they would have to similarily massively power downwards, then power upwards to fight the gravity. This is more plausible and more believable, but still extremely wasteful in safety and fuel. Although tactically more viable. —- Either way, since their thrusters are pointed towards below their feet, laws of physics confirm that they will leave the ship headfirst, then rotate as they close in on their target, regardless of a perpendicular entry or spiraling entry. I will add for the record that the fluff for how they operate indicates more dropping from a flying craft in high altitude IN the atmosphere of a planet, rather than passengers of a craft following orbital physics. Astute analysis suggest that they are described like Paratroopers and not like actual Orbit to Surface deployment squads. The snippet above is more likely to be Inperial propaganda over actual tactical definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I will add for the record that the fluff for how they operate indicates more dropping from a flying craft in high altitude IN the atmosphere of a planet, rather than passengers of a craft following orbital physics. Astute analysis suggest that they are described like Paratroopers and not like actual Orbit to Surface deployment squads. The snippet above is more likely to be Inperial propaganda over actual tactical definition. Except that they are literally described as getting dropped from orbit. Reivers are the ones who get dropped like paratroopers. Don't try to apply too much real world physics to 40k, it will only hurt your brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I think the "RE-ENTRY" meteoric descent is headfirst. after they slow down a bit they flip. the outer helmet makes me think that. if they are already in atmo, then feet first. They'd probably have burn marks all over their body, not any one place in particular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Maybe more like this https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2012/10/121008-felix-baumgartner-skydive-how-to-watch-live-video https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/pictures/121008-joseph-kittinger-felix-baumgartner-skydive-science-red-bull/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Maybe more like this https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2012/10/121008-felix-baumgartner-skydive-how-to-watch-live-video https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/pictures/121008-joseph-kittinger-felix-baumgartner-skydive-science-red-bull/ Except they have reentry blast shields. You don't need those if you're merely dropping in atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Dropping in vertical also reduces the radar signature, apparently in the early days the enemy thought they were meteorites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I will add for the record that the fluff for how they operate indicates more dropping from a flying craft in high altitude IN the atmosphere of a planet, rather than passengers of a craft following orbital physics. Astute analysis suggest that they are described like Paratroopers and not like actual Orbit to Surface deployment squads. The snippet above is more likely to be Inperial propaganda over actual tactical definition. Except that they are literally described as getting dropped from orbit. Reivers are the ones who get dropped like paratroopers. Don't try to apply too much real world physics to 40k, it will only hurt your brain. Laws of physics apply in 40k. They just have more laws regarding the immaterium. The description you are defending is either propaganda, wrongfully described or HERESY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I will add for the record that the fluff for how they operate indicates more dropping from a flying craft in high altitude IN the atmosphere of a planet, rather than passengers of a craft following orbital physics. Astute analysis suggest that they are described like Paratroopers and not like actual Orbit to Surface deployment squads. The snippet above is more likely to be Inperial propaganda over actual tactical definition. Except that they are literally described as getting dropped from orbit. Reivers are the ones who get dropped like paratroopers. Don't try to apply too much real world physics to 40k, it will only hurt your brain. Laws of physics apply in 40k. They just have more laws regarding the immaterium. The description you are defending is either propaganda, wrongfully described or HERESY ! If you really believe that you'll get a headache sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Rudense "Class": A small ship designed post Gathering Storm to be as fast, heavily armed, and densely armoured as possible, which they do with aplomb. You may ask yourselves, why are they not used in more regular combat roles? Well, the answer is that they are a specialised orbital insertion ship - designed to get as close to the atmosphere of a heavily defended planet as possible, drop it's cargo of primaris marines into the top layer, and get out of there. Whilst this may seem too specialised to be practical, few enemies are ready for half a company of marines dropping in to their base unexpectedly. (Nb - the class hasn't been formally named yet but the only example of it thus far was named the Rudense Although not a direct quote this is pretty much how it's described in Guy Halley's Dark Imperium. So not so much a low orbit drop as a very high altitude atmosphere drop, somewhere around the Karman line (100 km give or take) assuming relative earth size planet. Therefore, more like a HALO jump which would give the Primaris more control during the fall phase. Therefore it would probably look more like this Maybe more like thishttps://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2012/10/121008-felix-baumgartner-skydive-how-to-watch-live-videohttps://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/pictures/121008-joseph-kittinger-felix-baumgartner-skydive-science-red-bull/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 In Crusaders they run and jump out of the hangar of a Strike Cruiser, not a Rudense. They then are literally described as falling head first, what more do people need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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