The Siege of Terra: Solar War

[Manchu warlord]

For those that has read:  Is Zardu Layak like the new Argel Tal, that is also commander of the Word Beares during the campaign?  (And also has control over Fulgrim?)

[m_r_parker]

For those that has read:  Is Zardu Layak like the new Argel Tal, that is also commander of the Word Beares during the campaign?  (And also has control over Fulgrim?)

 

No, from what I can see.

 

I'll put some stuff in spoiler tags, as before it's not too spoiler-y but just in case people want to read it completely unspoilt:

 

Zardu Layak spends most of his time accompanying Abaddon on a  Sons' vessel. The Word Bearers themselves don't make too much of an appearance in the novel, the bulk of the fighting is done by the Iron Warriors and the Sons of Horus. When the Word Bearers come to the fore in later novels I imagine we'll see other Legion commanders. He's more like an Erebus, an advisor rather than a commander.

As for Fulgrim, he only makes a single appearance in the novel, and he's firmly in control of himself on one his own Legion's ships. As I read it at the end of Slaves to Darkness, Zardu Layak gave up control of Fulgrim and I can't imagine Horus would want to keep Fulgrim on that short of a chain if he needs the III Legions assistance. 

[Manchu warlord]

 

For those that has read:  Is Zardu Layak like the new Argel Tal, that is also commander of the Word Beares during the campaign?  (And also has control over Fulgrim?)

 

No, from what I can see.

 

I'll put some stuff in spoiler tags, as before it's not too spoiler-y but just in case people want to read it completely unspoilt:

 

Zardu Layak spends most of his time accompanying Abaddon on a  Sons' vessel. The Word Bearers themselves don't make too much of an appearance in the novel, the bulk of the fighting is done by the Iron Warriors and the Sons of Horus. When the Word Bearers come to the fore in later novels I imagine we'll see other Legion commanders. He's more like an Erebus, an advisor rather than a commander.

As for Fulgrim, he only makes a single appearance in the novel, and he's firmly in control of himself on one his own Legion's ships. As I read it at the end of Slaves to Darkness, Zardu Layak gave up control of Fulgrim and I can't imagine Horus would want to keep Fulgrim on that short of a chain if he needs the III Legions assistance. 

 

I see Mr. m_r_parker, thank you for the answer.

[b1soul]

About my boy Jubal, the bloke with probably the coolest honorific in the 40K universe...

 

Is it clear that Jubal is truly dead? I always thought he survived to at least the Siege proper on Terra (i.e. the ground engagements around and within the Imperial Palace).

 

He makes a good appearance in Path of Heaven, and we get a glimpse into his past in Warhawk of Chogoris. So this would be a rather abrupt end IMO.  

 

EDIT: As a WS fan, I do hope they get a few good showings other than putting up a good fight before losing to powerful foes. We've already had Jubal bested by Sigismund, Qin Xa slain by Eidolon, Shiban/Tachseer outclassed by Cario...and now Jubal possibly sawed in half by Abaddon. 

 

If Jubal survives, sounds like he'll be going the way of Shiban.  

Edited March 30, 2019 by b1soul

[Marshal Loss]

Re, Jubal:

 

He is definitely dead. No ambiguity, he isn't coming back.

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m dying to get my hands on this. The release can’t come soon enough. It’s almost enough to make me want to restart a Siege of Terra project.

[b1soul]

Re, Jubal:

 

He is definitely dead. No ambiguity, he isn't coming back.

 

 

Feels like a waste of a character. The first Master of the Hunt never really gets to hunt...but I'll reserve judgment till I actually read the book.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

He will definitely get his time to shine in the Black Book series where they can better illustrate who he is as a commander

[b1soul]

Hope so...and French is a pretty strong authour among BL's stable... 

so perhaps Jubal get's quite a bit of character development in the novel itself before he bites the dust

  Edited March 31, 2019 by b1soul

[Fire Golem]

Hope so...and French is a pretty strong authour among BL's stable, so perhaps Jubal get's quite a bit of character development in the novel itself before he

 

bites the dust

 

That spoiler tag isn’t particularly effective, with the context of the rest of the post.

Edited March 30, 2019 by fire golem

[Rob P]

What's all this about 'who's controlling Fulgrim?'

 

I've only missed Titan Death and some short stories (and maybe an anthology) but I thought as of The Reflection Crack'd he was in charge of his own faculties.

 

Spill the beans, please?  

[Fire Golem]

What's all this about 'who's controlling Fulgrim?'

 

I've only missed Titan Death and some short stories (and maybe an anthology) but I thought as of The Reflection Crack'd he was in charge of his own faculties.

 

Spill the beans, please? :)

 

I’ll put it in spoilers just in case but it’s from Slaves to Darkness, not this novel:

 

in Slaves to Darkness, Lorgar goes to find Fulgrim who’s just chilling in the webway, and Zardu Layak binds Fulgrim to him with his true name. Lorgar wants to kill Horus and take over as the archtraitor as he thinks Horus will fail, but Horus knows and stops him. Zardu submits to Horus and releases Fulgrim from his command.

[DarKnight]

He will definitely get his time to shine in the Black Book series where they can better illustrate who he is as a commander

A series is coming with the 'Exemplary Battles' stories?!

[Kelborn]

I think he was refering to FWs black books. As they once Said to do 20 of them, there's plenty of space and time for Jubal to shine.

[Fedor]

The White Scars champions have definitely had it rough.

[DarKnight]

I think he was refering to FWs black books. As they once Said to do 20 of them, there's plenty of space and time for Jubal to shine.

Thanks. I wish they would just collect them already.

[bluntblade]

The White Scars champions have definitely had it rough.

I hope Shiban makes it out. At this rate, I wonder if he'll be the first Chapter Master or if he's going to found the Storm Lords.

[mc warhammer]

The White Scars champions have definitely had it rough.

i get it, war is heck

 

but it does seem a bit of a pattern in contrast to the other loyalists that we know will survive and thrive into the 2nd founding. maybe some legions just have it rougher?

[b1soul]

The White Scars champions have definitely had it rough.

 

WS are a less popular legion and there's less pre-established lore about their doings or fates during/after the HH or Siege...so there's not as much fan uproar (if any) when a bigger-name WS commander or champion is slain by the Traitors. I just hope the WS don't take over from the Imperial Fists as the Loyalist punching bags...I'm only half-joking.

 

 

I imagine it explains his rules well though, he is good but not amazing

 

Whose rules? Qin Xa? I'd probably agree there. 

 

As for Jubal, he really is supposed to be amazing, just not quite as incredibly amazing as Sigismund or Abaddon. Jubal is one of the few among the Legions Alajos concedes could beat him in Savage Weapons as I recall.

   Edited March 31, 2019 by b1soul

[mc warhammer]

idk, the depiction of qin xa was

so devastatingly magnificent that eidolon mistook him for a primarch

[bluntblade]

Also Qin Xa was little-known. Path of Heaven points out that Jubal was one of the very few scars to be really well-known.

 

I expect that in contrast, the likes of Aximand and Sejanus would be famous throughout the Legions as well as Abaddon.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

The White Scars champions have definitely had it rough.

WS are a less popular legion and there's less pre-established lore about their doings or fates during/after the HH or Siege...so there's not as much fan uproar (if any) when a bigger-name WS commander or champion is slain by the Traitors. I just hope the WS don't take over from the Imperial Fists as the Loyalist punching bags...I'm only half-joking.

 

I imagine it explains his rules well though, he is good but not amazing

Whose rules? Qin Xa? I'd probably agree there.

 

As for Jubal, he really is supposed to be amazing, just not quite as incredibly amazing as Sigismund or Abaddon. Jubal is one of the few among the Legions Alajos concedes could beat him in Savage Weapons as I recall.

Alajos is really weird to rank people by. He considers himself top twenty ish with abbadon, sev and the rest of the big boys above him. He also thought of himself as third best in his legion behind corswain and astellan. Abbadon is only middling in duels/sparring and loses with ease to vortigern, a dark angel. Since most info came from honour duels in terms of "who's best at fighting", then alajos should include vortigern as better in both.

 

This is just a long way of saying that Jubal was probably good, and importantly fast, like the Viper in game of thrones. But didn't quite match the heights of raldoran, sigismund, sevetar and abbadon; the very best fighters period. They also are the only ones who get ws 7 out of the praetor level; eidolon, even custodes tribunes are all 6.

[Fire Golem]

Have we not learnt by now that it’s pretty futile to try and rank the characters by their melee prowess based on what’s written in the books, when power level can be variable to suit what the story needs and other inconsistencies like that? For example, unless I missed him anywhere, Vortigern was first in Black Legion, which was written quite a while after Savage Weapons (that’s where Alajos makes that claim right?)

 

Abaddon is mentioned to be middling in sparring/duels, and I’m pretty sure a similar thing is said of Khârn in Betrayer, but that doesn’t stop them being killing machines in a real fight. Characters power levels are hard to rank when the needs of the story, authors interpretations and the situation of the battle can all have an effect on the battle.

 

Plus, yes, the White Scars had a rough time in the Heresy and lost a lot of their ‘champions’, but then they did spend a large chunk of the Heresy as a hit and run force behind the enemy lines, which isn’t much of a safe environment, and I’m sure most/all of the Legions lost a lot of their command structure and well known marines. It just happens we’ve seen more of that with the scars, or cared more when it happens because of the writing (the three loyalists at Istvaan 5 must have lost many of their leaders and champions, I just don’t particularly care because they’ve not been written like the Scars).

[Soldier of Dorn]

I... I just finished it.

 

Best book of the Heresy so far, in my opinion. The perfect mix of bolter porn and character defining moments. I'm breathless and speechless twenty minutes after finishing the novel, and I can't remember the last time a Black Library book made me feel this way.

 

If the rest of the Siege series can meet even half what The Solar War was, then it'll have been well worth it.

[b1soul]

 

Alajos is really weird to rank people by. He considers himself top twenty ish with abbadon, sev and the rest of the big boys above him. He also thought of himself as third best in his legion behind corswain and astellan.

 

He didn't think of himself as inferior to Corswain or Astelan. He thought only Corswain and Astelan in his Legion had the ability to beat him. That's not the same as what you're saying.