Pitfalls of chimaeric gene-seed?

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

I had the idea to have two Chapters of different Primarchs merge in my current Chapter's lore, to help explain their Iron Hands-like tendencies but Blood Angels culture. The Crimson Knights are closely associated with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and have similar (if less extreme) tendencies to the Iron Hands. However, they are a Blood Angels successor. The question is, would it be possible for them to have chimaeric gene-seed from merging with an Iron Hands successor at some point in their background, maybe with interference from the Forge World they're sworn to?

[Osteoclast]

Chimeric gene-seed is certainly doable; it's the default for the Traitor Legions and has been seen in some loyalists (the Carcharadon Astra are suspected of such). It's not something that any loyalist Chapter is going to undertake lightly however and explaining why they've taken such a drastic step is important. I don't think that forge world interference quite cuts it as to the reason for it. Perhaps both they and an Iron Hand chapter fought in the defense of said Forge world, sustaining crippling casualties in the process while the Iron Hand chapter was wiped out; as additional assaults were expected in the near future (Black Crusade or some such), any and all gene-seed was put to use along with the additional rationalization that this was a means of honoring the sacrifice of their cousins and keeping their memory alive for the eons (all the more so if the Iron Hands died from what would've otherwise wiped out the Crimson Knights).

 

Where I see a potential problem, or opportunity for world building and writing, is the conflict that you will see from those who suffer from the Thirst and Rage and those who who don't, or do so to a markedly lesser degree, especially given how emotionless the Iron Hands and their successors tend to be (or at least espouse themselves to be).

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

I've already thought about the Red Thirst and how it pertains to the Crimson/Auric Knights (former Iron Hands Successor which was absorbed was named the Auric Knights and had an all-black color scheme with golden gauntlets, current-day Crimson Knights who are survivors from that era and were once Auric Knights have the same golden forearms as they did as a chapter of their own) and here's how it works.

 

Edit: for the record, the Crimson Knights were sworn to Forge World Ragnarus and the Auric Knights joined in the defense. I had already planned on the Auric Knights being torn down by various foes and being absorbed; having both Chapters be decimated works too.

 

The Crimson Knights already have a small Death Company by virtue of being over half Primaris at this point (being mostly first-wave Primaris also feeds into the narrative of them venerating the Omnissiah - not the Emperor, the Omnissiah - and the idea of them having been decimated and having to desperately use all gene-seed at their disposal also feeds into this idea) and having the gene-seed of Ferrus Manus as well as Sanguinius might help to curb the Black Rage. There are exceptions, however, and as a result, the Crimson Knights DO keep a Death Company. A small one.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

As there is historical antipathy between Blood Angels descendants and the AdMech, due to the Blood Angels keeping the Baal Predator and overcharged engine's STC patterns for themselves (under a treaty the Emperor signed with the AdMech before the Great Crusade, the Astartes were supposed to turn in all STC fragments they find, in exchange for the AdMech's support), the Crimson Knights' history should include details on how the Marines managed to win over the forge world, and why the forge world trusts the Knights. Maybe they offered Ragnarus' ruling tech-priests the STC pattern for the overcharged engine- an act that will piss off other Blood Angels descendants, as the STC pattern was a trophy the Primarch took during the Great Crusade- or an archeotech device?

 

As Games Workshop's publications limit chimeric gene-seed use to those the Imperium is unable or unwilling to resupply- because they're traitors, because they're isolated (see the Carcharodons Astra), or because the AdMech gave them experimental gene-seed that's difficult to replicate (see the Relictors)- this will also have to be addressed. Maybe the Crimson Knights participated in the Abyssal Crusade alongside an Iron Hands descendant, and conditions in the Eye of Terror wiped out the latter and forced the former to salvage their cousins' materiel- including gene-seed, as the Warp and Chaos shenanigans caused the Knights' gene-seed to somehow deteriorate? If the surviving Knights emerged from the Eye of Terror with an untainted STC pattern, that can give them a "foot in the door" to the forge world.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Sounds good to me. However, all 30 Chapters present in the Abyssal Crusade were named by GW themselves. How would I reconcile that?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Sounds good to me. However, all 30 Chapters present in the Abyssal Crusade were named by GW themselves. How would I reconcile that?

Easy explanation: The Administratum misfiled some documents, so its "List of Chapters that participated in the Abyssal Crusade" is incomplete.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Alright, then it's settled. The Crimson Knights merged with the Auric Knights when both were sent on the Abyssal Crusade. Both entered, kicked ass, and got decimated in the process. They were forced to merge under one banner, and salvage as much gene-seed as quickly and indiscriminately as possible to keep themselves alive. In the process, they recovered an intact STC (not a fragment, a full STC, because it needs to be THAT good) for a modified type of plasma weapon cooling system utilized by the Crimson Knights and Forge World Ragnarus to this day (mechanically it would be a kind of alternate plasma weapon I'm still working on the rules for and was planning on utilizing with opponent permission anyway) and set up shop in the same system as Ragnarus, rebuilding their fortress-monastery (which was destroyed by Chaos forces immediately after the two Chapters begun the Crusade) on Ragnarus Secundus, a civ-world. Supported by their new allies in Forge World Ragnarus, Knight House Astor and the Ragnarus-native Guard regiment, they live on to this day as a remarkably deadly Chapter in warfare. The records of the Crimson and Auric Knights embarking on the Crusade were lost by the Administratum almost immediately after they embarked on said Crusade, in an excellent display of why the Administratum is incompetent.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Note: IIRC, forge worlds are exempt from Astra Militarum tithes, as they need every available man (and woman) working in their manufactories. Ragnarus' defenders should be Skitarii Legions raised from or transferred to this world, NOT Astra Militarum Regiments- unless its government was set up like that of Vostroya, one of the few exceptions.

[Knight of the Raven]

I'll preface this by saying I know nothing of these Crimson and Auric Knights of yours outside of what you've posted in this thread.

I believe you do not actually need chimeric geneseed for your chapter to display traits from two different Legions.

The Blood Angels codex at my disposal doesn't mention the natural inclinations of their geneseed outside of the Red Thirst and the Black Rage, and I've come to understand that the lore is a little schizophrenic about whether the latter existed before Sanguinius' martyr at Horus' hands. I've gathered from posts on this forum that they were frenzied butchers before reuniting with their primarch, pointing to an increased weakness to the Red Thirst before Sanguinius' blood stabilized their geneseed.

I know even less about Iron Hands or, more specifically, which traits of theirs come from Ferrus Manus' genetic template and which come from Medusan culture. And that's the point I want to stress.

Nature versus nurture. More accurately, nature versus culture since the primarchs are long gone.

Crash-land Vulkan on another planet, and the XVIIIth Legion won't care about fire or metalworking.

I suggest seeking out just what distinguishes the IXth and Xth Legions from the Blood Angels and Iron Hands, assuming such information even exists. Especially that, as far as I know, Codex Astartes chapters have never been merged together in the entire history of the Imperium.

Some First Founding chapters have had a close call with extinction since the Horus Heresy—one even was legitimately wiped out, I believe. Being the strongest links to the loyalist primarchs' legacy, the Imperium couldn't afford to consign them to oblivion and they were rebuilt with recruits from their successor chapters and, I assume, whichever gene-tithes they could spare from the entire lineage.

Some people think of the Tiger and Astral Claws when merging chapters is mentioned. I never read Forge World's books dedicated to the Badab War, so my information comes from the Lexicanum. If the reported information is correct, they never merged together; the Astral Claws hid the very few survivors of their successor chapter among themselves with the aim to secretly rebuild the Tiger Claws with some of their own geneseed.

Lufgt Huron was nobler than one would have thought, it seems.

It's possible they wouldn't have come back as the Tiger Claws and instead changed their name, heraldry and color scheme, so that the Inquisition doesn't come a-knocking for a second round. But merged chapters as you intend it here—one chapter ceasing to exist for good while another lives on—have not happened as far as I can tell.

The lore available to me has been pretty clear: for a gravely-depleted chapter, it's either withdrawing from active duty and painstakingly rebuilding themselves from the ground up, or going out in a blaze of glory and dragging as many foes of the Imperium as possible down with them. There is no third option.

Moving on, Bjorn Firewalker provided an interesting hook with your chapter earning the Adeptus Mechanicus' approval by sharing technology unique to Sanguinius' lineage. However, I suggest making this particular piece of technology be the Stormraven rather than the Lucifer engine; after all, no one else has overcharged engines in the wider Imperium while the Stormraven certainly became available to more codices...

I'm not up to date with the lore though, so perhaps how the other chapters got access to this gunship was stated in this or that Codex or it turned out to first belong to the Grey Knights rather than the Blood Angels.

Speaking of lost technology, I know next to nothing about Adeptus Mechanicus lore post-actual codices, but I suspect getting hold of a complete STC gave the forge world Ragnarus many, many, many jealous enemies among their esteemed-is-such-an-organic-epithet colleagues. I doubt you'll have to work very hard to justify another Adeptus Mechanicus army attacking Ragnarus or the chapter that chose to hand over this priceless relic to this forge world rather than to them.

Which brings me to the next point.

Without developing why the Crimson Knights behave like Iron Hands, they're not closely associated with "the Adeptus Mechanicus," they're closely associated with "the forge world Ragnarus."

If you choose to retain the chimeric geneseed, being related to the original Iron Hands will be enough—but it will be exactly just that. The Adeptus Mechanicus won't be working alongside the Crimson Knights, they'll be going through the motions with a successor chapter to the Iron Hands which happens to be called the Crimson Knights.

Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if you want their story to focus on their relationship with Ragnarus. But something I believe is worth keeping in mind.

If you choose to make their geneseed pure, as I said, you need to explain why the wider Adeptus Mechanicus holds them in high regard as opposed to murderous contempt.

Sharing one STC sacred to the Blood Angels and their successors is merely the only one I can think of among others. And all it'd take is a simple question... "Would Sanguinius really wish to withhold this technology from the Imperium if it could help to make it a safer place?"

The uproar at such hubris and sacrilege against their genefather's memory would very possibly be vicious enough for them to genuinely need the Adeptus Mechanicus' protection just to survive. The Abyssal Crusade isn't the only way to skin a loyalist chapter, after all.

And if the sons of Sanguinius went a little too trigger happy with the cyclonic torpedoes, well, Ragnarus Prime just so happens to have prime real estate on a nearby planet.

This would give the Crimson Knights ample reasons to drift closer to the Iron Hands' mentality and methodology—and the Adeptus Mechanicus several opportunities to enlighten them to the glory of the Omnissiah.

 

Note: IIRC, forge worlds are exempt from Astra Militarum tithes, as they need every available man (and woman) working in their manufactories. Ragnarus' defenders should be Skitarii Legions raised from or transferred to this world, NOT Astra Militarum Regiments- unless its government was set up like that of Vostroya, one of the few exceptions.

Ragnarus Secundus regiment, I believe. They wouldn't be actual Imperial Guard since they hail from a space marine homeworld, making them Planetary Defense Forces that happen to provide their cream of the crop to the Adeptus Astartes rather than to the Astra Militarum.

But Games Workshop themselves forget that the near totality of the "Steel Legion" fighting orks on Armageddon since Ghazghkull invaded is actually the PDF, so yeah. Assuming they even realized it was the case to begin with.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

This all was intended to culminate in the Ultima Founding.

 

When Guilliman passed out Primaris to everyone, I had decided that, because the Primaris came from Cawl, not Big E, and in some cases worshipped the Omnissiah, they were accepted wholeheartedly (which is why the Crimson Knights have so many Primaris Marines; they've been producing them on their own in place of their old aspirants) and now the Crimson Knights are further along the Primaris "upgrade" curve than most Chapters.

 

The Crimson Knights merged with the Auric Knights when both were sent on the Abyssal Crusade. Both entered, kicked ass, and got decimated in the process. They were forced to merge under one banner, and salvage as much gene-seed as quickly and indiscriminately as possible to keep themselves alive. In the process, they recovered an intact STC (not a fragment, a full STC, because it needs to be THAT good) for a modified type of plasma weapon cooling system utilized by the Crimson Knights and Forge World Ragnarus to this day (mechanically it would be a kind of alternate plasma weapon I'm still working on the rules for and was planning on utilizing with opponent permission anyway) and set up shop in the same system as Ragnarus, rebuilding their fortress-monastery (which was destroyed by Chaos forces immediately after the two Chapters begun the Crusade) on Ragnarus Secundus, a civ-world. Supported by their new allies in Forge World Ragnarus, Knight House Astor and the Ragnarus-native Guard regiment, they live on to this day as a remarkably deadly Chapter in warfare. The records of the Crimson and Auric Knights embarking on the Crusade were lost by the Administratum almost immediately after they embarked on said Crusade, in an excellent display of why the Administratum is incompetent.

 

The Crimson Knights return from the Eye battered but victorious, under half of their original strength. They limp their way to Ragnarus, hand over the STC for the plasma cooling and for the Baal Predator (because it's good and they decided that their gene-father would prooooobably not want that restricted to the Blood Angels when it could kick ass for everyone) and fall under the protection of Ragnarus to avoid them being destroyed as a Chapter. They build their fortress-monastery on Ragnarus Secundus. Ragnarus becomes a target for other Forge Worlds for pulling a Blood Angels and not handing over the Baal Predator or plasma cooling systems to Mars. Over time, the Crimson Knights get more and more Iron Hands-y due to their close relationship with a Forge World (helped along by the fact that, by this point, some of their Veterans, the survivors from the Auric Knights, are carrying pure gene-seed from Ferrus Manus and that their newer aspirants are all carrying chimaeric gene-seed). Eventually, the Sixth Company (mostly pure Sanguinius gene-seed left over from before the Abyssal Crusade) falls to Khorne as the Bloody Sixth, a small cabal of Tech-Priests, PDF and Knights fall to Nurgle as the Traitors of Leviathan and Ragnarus gradually becomes more and more insular, and more and more of a good target for practically everyone, especially Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy armies, but also AdMech and Blood Angels. Not sure how the Iron Hands would react to a Blood Angels Successor taking on their traditions and such, and if it got out that they had dual gene-fathers, how the Iron Hands would react to that knowledge.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Eventually, the Sixth Company (mostly pure Sanguinius gene-seed left over from before the Abyssal Crusade) falls to Khorne as the Bloody Sixth, a small cabal of Tech-Priests, PDF and Knights fall to Nurgle as the Traitors of Leviathan and Ragnarus gradually becomes more and more insular, and more and more of a good target for practically everyone, especially Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy armies, but also AdMech and Blood Angels.

Does this mean you'll also build a Chaos warband?

Not sure how the Iron Hands would react to a Blood Angels Successor taking on their traditions and such, and if it got out that they had dual gene-fathers, how the Iron Hands would react to that knowledge.

The Iron Hands wouldn't give a damn about a Blood Angels successor adopting their traditions, unless you give them reason to give a damn.

 

Gene-seed, on the other hand, IS something they'll be sensitive about. Of course, a skilled writer can get around this- have the Crimson Knights come clean with the Iron Hands and then "make amends" with a copy of the plasma weapon's STC pattern, have the Knights bury the truth with the words "We suffered some gene-seed deterioration while we were in the Eye of Terror- that's why YOUR genetic testing equipment has difficulty analyzing our gene-seed. You say we have genetic markers unique to Ferrus Manus' sons? Interesting- we didn't know the Warp could make gene-seed mutate to adopt characteristics of the Chapters we fought beside in that realm, and we better have our Apothecaries and Chaplains check to make sure our gene-seed doesn't adopt characteristics of those we fought AGAINST," etc.

[Knight of the Raven]

 

The Crimson Knights merged with the Auric Knights when both were sent on the Abyssal Crusade.

rebuilding their fortress-monastery (which was destroyed by Chaos forces immediately after the two Chapters begun the Crusade)

The records of the Crimson and Auric Knights embarking on the Crusade were lost by the Administratum almost immediately after they embarked on said Crusade, in an excellent display of why the Administratum is incompetent.

Eventually, the Sixth Company (mostly pure Sanguinius gene-seed left over from before the Abyssal Crusade) falls to Khorne as the Bloody Sixth, a small cabal of Tech-Priests, PDF and Knights fall to Nurgle as the Traitors of Leviathan and Ragnarus gradually becomes more and more insular, and more and more of a good target for practically everyone, especially Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy armies, but also AdMech and Blood Angels.

It doesn't matter if the Crimson Knights' geneseed evolves to lose any and all trace of Sanguinius' blood—with that kind of luck, they'll always be related to the Lamenters.

 

A lovely development, and thanks for the explanation in the first sentence. As I've implied, my knowledge of the new lore is severely lacking, including first-hand sources of anything Primaris-related.

 

The Iron Hands strike me as coating their ruthless pragmatism with a thick layer of opportunism regardless of which game edition they hail from. They'll not go out of their way to hunt down the Crimson Knights (or even anything in the Ragnarus system) but collateral damage and death by inaction will be the names of the game every time they find themselves within operating distance (especially if the Iron Hands somehow find themselves roped into saving the Ragnarus system of all things).

 

...Which is pretty much their modus operandi for everyone else in the Imperium, apparently. Except for other scions of Ferrus Manus. Maybe. They may merely find themselves noticing this specific Primaris chapter sure has a knack for offering the best firing solutions the most often by pure coincidence.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

 

Does this mean you'll also build a Chaos warband?

 

A Khornate one in addition to my current Nurglite one getting beefed up by Traitor Guard, DarkMech and Renegade Knights, yes, if I can scrape together the funds for it all. Khorne Berzerkers with Blood Angels heraldry instead of World Eaters to piss off their Loyalist brethren, etc.

 

 

The Iron Hands wouldn't give a damn about a Blood Angels successor adopting their traditions, unless you give them reason to give a damn.

Gene-seed, on the other hand, IS something they'll be sensitive about. Of course, a skilled writer can get around this- have the Crimson Knights come clean with the Iron Hands and then "make amends" with a copy of the plasma weapon's STC pattern, have the Knights bury the truth with the words "We suffered some gene-seed deterioration while we were in the Eye of Terror- that's why YOUR genetic testing equipment has difficulty analyzing our gene-seed. You say we have genetic markers unique to Ferrus Manus' sons? Interesting- we didn't know the Warp could make gene-seed mutate to adopt characteristics of the Chapters we fought beside in that realm, and we better have our Apothecaries and Chaplains check to make sure our gene-seed doesn't adopt characteristics of those we fought AGAINST," etc.

 

 

That sounds excellent. Final summary:

 

The Crimson Knights merged with the Auric Knights when both were sent on the Abyssal Crusade. Both entered, kicked ass, and got decimated in the process. They were forced to merge under one banner, and salvage as much gene-seed as quickly and indiscriminately as possible to keep themselves alive. In the process, they recovered an intact STC (not a fragment, a full STC, because it needs to be THAT good) for a modified type of plasma weapon cooling system utilized by the Crimson Knights and Forge World Ragnarus to this day (mechanically it would be a kind of alternate plasma weapon I'm still working on the rules for and was planning on utilizing with opponent permission anyway) and set up shop in the same system as Ragnarus, rebuilding their fortress-monastery (which was destroyed by Chaos forces immediately after the two Chapters begun the Crusade) on Ragnarus Secundus, a civ-world. Supported by their new allies in Forge World Ragnarus, Knight House Astor and the Ragnarus-native Guard regiment, they live on to this day as a remarkably deadly Chapter in warfare. The records of the Crimson and Auric Knights embarking on the Crusade were lost by the Administratum almost immediately after they embarked on said Crusade, in an excellent display of why the Administratum is incompetent.

 

The Crimson Knights return from the Eye battered but victorious, under half of their original strength. They limp their way to Ragnarus, hand over the STC for the plasma cooling and for the Baal Predator (because it's good and they decided that their gene-father would prooooobably not want that restricted to the Blood Angels when it could kick ass for everyone) and fall under the protection of Ragnarus to avoid them being destroyed as a Chapter. They build their fortress-monastery on Ragnarus Secundus. Ragnarus becomes a target for other Forge Worlds for pulling a Blood Angels and not handing over the Baal Predator or plasma cooling systems to Mars. Over time, the Crimson Knights get more and more Iron Hands-y due to their close relationship with a Forge World (helped along by the fact that, by this point, some of their Veterans, the survivors from the Auric Knights, are carrying pure gene-seed from Ferrus Manus and that their newer aspirants are all carrying chimaeric gene-seed). Eventually, the Sixth Company (mostly pure Sanguinius gene-seed left over from before the Abyssal Crusade) falls to Khorne as the Bloody Sixth, a small cabal of Tech-Priests, PDF and Knights fall to Nurgle as the Traitors of Leviathan and Ragnarus gradually becomes more and more insular, and more and more of a good target for practically everyone, especially Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy armies, but also AdMech and Blood Angels.

 

When they returned from the Eye of Terror with their gene-seed mixed, they contacted the Iron Hands and their Second Founding Successors and, in a gesture of goodwill, handed over the STC pattern for the modified plasma cooling system. They confessed to carrying the gene-seed, chalking it up to the warping effects of the Eye of Terror. In addition, they reported the Auric Knights lost, destroyed to a man by daemons and Chaos warbands, despite the Auric Knights walking among them.

 

Then began the War of Ragnarus.

 

Forge World Ragnarus itself was discovered to be a Tomb World.

 

All too late. The world had already begun to awaken from its slumber.

 

In response, various forces, from the T'au to Ecclesiarchy to the Bloody Sixth themselves, descended upon Ragnarus in its moment of weakness. Strange, heretical, yet necessary alliances were made. The forces of Ragnarus begrudgingly accepted the assistance of the T'au, much to the anger of the Inquisitorial and Ecclesiarchal forces that had begun to strike upon Ragnarus. With them, the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy brought to bear the armaments of the Grey Knights, the Deathwatch, the Adepta Sororitas, several agents of the Officio Assassinorum and a small contingent of Militarum Tempestus.

 

The forces of Ragnarus rallied their armies. The Skitarii Legions prepared themselves for war. The Crimson Knights fell back to the homeworld from their various Crusades to help in the fight. Ragnarus' own Priesthood armed itself, putting the finishing touches on their greatest war engines. House Astor mobilized for war, the noble Knights bringing life to some of the greatest machines in all of Ragnarus. Their T'au allies prepared their armies, and braced for the likelihood of their Imperial allies turning on them after the war was over.

 

However, the forces of Chaos were not mercifully absent. The Bloody Sixth descended upon Ragnarus, preparing to take revenge for their exile. They made a dark pact with the Traitors of Leviathan and the Death Guard warband of the Rotting Hand, and together, they struck. Hordes of Poxwalkers strode into battle alongside the crazed warriors of Khorne. Plague Marines supported the advance of their Khornate brethren, providing fire support alongside the bloodthirsty Havocs of the Sixth. Helbrutes of Khorne strode into battle, breaking down bastions and slaughtering all those within while Foetid Bloat-Drones soared above the battlefield, their rusted, rotten engines giving off a sickly, grinding whir. All the while, the leaders of the operation, the Daemon Prince Phygius the Destroyer, former Captain of the Sixth, and Lord Leviathan, the Fallen of Astor, fought side by side, tearing into enemy ranks as one.

 

This conflict did not escape the eye of the Aeldari, either. Intent on taking advantage of the insanity, a Haemonculus Coven, the Ostium Insidium, struck like the blade of a master, intent on capturing members of the Crimson Knights to analyze their unusual gene-seed and perhaps glean some of their secrets. The Craftworld Ar'san descended upon Ragnarus as well, their only goal to destroy the Necron armies. They cared not for the younger races' presence, nor for the presence of the Haemonculi. They brought with them a troupe of Harlequins, who, in a strange twist of fate, had based their plays on the events of the Horus Heresy. Being that the armies descending upon Ragnarus were of Mortarion and Sanguinius, the Players of those two Primarchs were placed at the forefront of the assault. This troupe had always traditionally had two Troupe Masters at a time; one Loyalist, one Traitor. Ordinarily, that would be Horus' and the Emperor's Players, but this was a special occasion.

 

The forces of the Necrons, the Pekrahi Dynasty, had already begun to awaken when they were discovered. Towering Monoliths began to awaken, levelling nearby manufactora in moments, The mindless Warriors rose from their tombs, leading the charge into the Skitarii ranks. Scheming Crypteks entered the fight, leading hordes of cold, calculating machines. At the head of it all was the Phaeron Sutenrekh, a strategic mastermind unmatched by any.

 

From the hives of Ragnarus, the insidious cults that had slowly grown there over the years decided to strike. Chaos Cultists rose up and joined the ranks of the Chaotic horde. Genestealer Cults rose up, screaming rebellion while bringing their cities to ruin. There was nobody unaffected by the fight. All had to fight, hide, supplicate or die.

 

In the end, the War of Ragnarus is truthfully an average Tuesday for the Imperium. However, for the natives of Ragnarus, life would never be the same.

 

Edit: Hoo boy I got carried away, huh? That just sorta happened.

[Knight of the Raven]

I'll start by spelling out what the several "I believe" and all in my previous posts imply: this is my opinion, and it's certainly not fact. I'll follow with another equally important point: this is your homebrewed chapter, it's essential that you're enjoying writing it (though it's not the only thing that matters, to provide only one example).

I'll conclude this opening by saying I'm most likely the one to blame for you getting carried away, but, well. Yes. That's an average Wednesday. (And I'm not saying getting carried away in the first place was a bad thing.)

As I said, I found the Crimson Knights' bad luck entertaining, but I feel it has become their defining point here. Possibly to the point of stretching disbelief, perhaps even of becoming a caricature.

The Lamenters may feel like the universe's punching bag at the best of times. The Crimson Knights, here, look more like a punchline to their comedy routine. Yes, I'm enjoying thoroughly how nearly everyone in the galaxy jumps them at the same time—they may as well rename themselves the North Pole, because the only way things ever go when they move is south.

As such, it's "remarkably hilarious" rather than "remarkably deadly" that comes to mind first when I think of them. Not a problem if you don't mind their comedic misfortune overshadowing their martial prowess, and even less so if you don't feel this is what's happening.

Ironically enough, they might feel a little bit like orks: at least as funny as they're lethal. Ironically, because orks are the one major faction that didn't end up in the Ragnarus System.

Neither did the Iron Hands, incidentally. Hats off for the bait and switch with "Then began the War of Ragnarus."

Again, my opinion, not fact, not an order.

[Ryltar Thamior]

one logical way to do a 'chimaeric' or other oddball chapter, is the Cursed Founding, or the lesser-known Dark Founding. In the former in particular, it seems like things went *well* beyond simple 'chimaeric' approach, to outright altering various geneseed elements to see what worked in a bid to try and 'fix' particular geneseed flaws in the 'source material', or just outright 'boost performance' for those organs and their bearers. In some ways, the whole thing winds up presaging Cawl's work [insofar as it's .. post-dating it by millennia, but, you know, not known about etc.]

However, integral to 40k is the pathos of even (perhaps especially) the mighty and the blessed; often in a sense that's rather beyond "no power without a price" angle and into outright dramatic irony. 

As applies First Founding legions' geneseed in particular, they often tend to have somewaht predictable psychological foibles *as well as* any given physiological divergence from an ideal Astartes norm. And this flows naturally from their intended aptitudes, both in combat and as part of the broader Emperor's vision for the Imperium and post-Crusade society [so, as an example, IVth Marines tending to become paranoid, insular, psychologically 'numb' - as natural furtherances of their siege warfare competency, but into potentially pathological and unhelpful extents].

Or, you know, as applies what becomes of the IXth - in direct counter and undermining of that; so the erstwile most civilized and refined and Renaissance Plus Human-ist of the Astartes wind up frothing at the mouth "to serve man" savage slaughterers [especially in the case of the Flesh Tearers and such]. 

Now, as applies the Blood Angels and most of their successors, I *think* , and I know it's not been hard-stated, but our supposition is that a rather large part of why the Black Rage happens, is because they insist upon utilizing them Blood of Sanguinius-drinking rites. Which, due to the way a Marine's omophagea works *anyway* [c.f XXth legion utilization of ... a somewhat similar trick], means that they're basically embedding memories - very powerful, psychically resonant memories, of a demigod, now slain - in their Astartes. The 'official justification' if i recall correctly, for *why* they use their primarch's blood in such a manner, is that it apparently helps stabilize IXth geneseed in the context of their 'different' approach to Astartes implantation, augmentation and growth. 

Although the psychological flaws of many of the IXth are also found in some other, more subtle areas. Their seeming deliberate penchant (oreven outright compulsion) for Doomed Last Stands that nearly wipe out the chapter, with consequent deleterious results, for example.

In fact, that could be a potential 'opening' for why 'chimeric geneseed' might happen. A desperate IXth-successor apothecary, seeking to more rapidly rebuild his chapter, in order to continue to carry out their "Serve And Protect" duty to the local Imperial sphere that's hard-pressed from some long-term and periodically flaring up threat, but facing the degeneration of some organs, or lacking sufficient supplies of Blood of the Primarch to stabilize/potentiate/activate their *usual* implantation style, turns to other means - perhaps a storage-sanctum of Xth geneseed encountered about the same time. 

Now, there'd be a potentially rather interesting 'synergy' between some of the functional impairments/characteristics of IXth and Xth geneseed; both would probably contribute to a tendency towards 'perfectionism'; both have dead primarchs, whose deaths may cause 'unforseen' and unpredictable/uncontrollable conduct; these first two may lead to enhanced "martyrdom complex"; both have 'artisan/artificer' tenencies, which may lead to some pretty impressive stocks of custom wargear or higher quality hardware - but with more of a 'renaissance' master-craftsman nobility vibe than a seriously high-tech cybernetic feel. One potential area of 'conflict' would be in how they subconsciously regard more regular humans - either as the IXth approach of charges to be protected against the hostile perils of the galaxy against whom they alone can and must always stand ... or the Xth post-heresy approach of "the flesh is weak" and contemptuous, or some ways between the two.

[in fact, if you were going iwth the "somebody's manipulating the whole thing as an experiment" approach - it could be an interesting concept for attempting to get more 'human-friendly' Xth derived Astartes , by splicing in IXth geneseed elements] 

All up,  looking at this from a geneseed based approach [i.e. not thinking too much about various backstory elements that may affect a chapter's operational style and other points of characterization - like its combat history, and homeworld/recruiting sources] , it may be helpful to take a quick look over the list of geneseed organs and implantation/activation processes, see how IXth and Xth differ on those , or might plausibly differ on those, see where there's either something interesting that could happen as a result of something degenerating, or a 'weakness' that could be covered by taking from the other geneline source, and where some 'synergies' or 'dissonances' might arise. 

[so, for example, somebody might try to create - and i stress, this is just an example, leaving aside a whole bunch of reasons why this would be .. difficult in-canon - a better sort of VIIIth legionary ... by keeping elements from that source that underpin the strong black-and-white thinking and sense of "retributive" action [it's supposed to be "justice', but, you know ..], which would presumably include both implants that relate to the mind, and the implantation and activation procedures/processes like hypno-indoctrination ... but making them more *resilient* in a physical sense and less likely to run or panic [odd way to describe it, but you know what i mean] [i.e. resilience ina mental/emotive sense] , through infusions of XIVth or IVth material ... which may nevertheless have the potential 'synergistic downside' of creating extra-paranoid and psychosis-prone [if VIIIth + IVth] , or much more 'morose' and 'blunt' [but extra tough] if VIIIth + XIVth. ] 

 

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

I'll be honest, I didn't mean to give them Lamenters bad luck. That just sorta... happened, unintentionally. The War of Ragnarus is pretty much my way of getting practically every army in 40k involved. Actually, the War of Ragnarus was a concept I'd had before I'd explained the Crimson Knights having chimaeric gene-seed and such. It only really became Lamenters bad luck when the bad things which happened to them before and after their arrival at Ragnarus both happened lol. Now that I think about it all as one thing, it actually is kind of funny. Like...

>get nearly destroyed and has to mix gene-seed

>Bloody Sixth breaks off from main Chapter and makes a bad name for the Crimson Knights

>claw way out of Eye of Terror

>hand out new tech to Forge World

>make enemies of Progenitor Chapter and other, newer Progenitor Chapter is made up of sociopaths

>have to be protected by Forge World

>Forge World turns out to be a Tomb World

>every force in the galaxy descends upon them, including other, more advanced kinds of Space Marine

[Bjorn Firewalker]

To prevent the Iron Hands from accusing Sanguinius' sons of murdering Ferrus Manus' sons to steal gene-seed and equipment, say the Auric Knights were subjected to a decapitation strike during the Abyssal Crusade (the Iron Hands' rigid hierarchy making them more vulnerable to such attacks), and the surviving Auric Knights turned to Crimson Knights officers for the leadership necessary to get them out of the mess they're in. The surviving Auric Knights' testimony should absolve the Crimson Knights. The mixed gene-seed can be explained as the Auric Knights relying on Crimson Knights Apothecaries to recover their brothers' gene-seed (their own Apothecaries are all dead), and the Crimson Knights Apothecaries (UNintentionally) mixing things up in the confusion of both Chapters' retreat from a Daemon world.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Sounds perfect. And wouldn't be a lie, either. That's about what it would be, too.