Road to East China Open - Sept 2019

[Morticon]

 

After cherub-hellfire(/flak) combo nerfed,devastators lost their attraction.

How's that? Must have missed something.

 

 

 

Cherub allowed the fire again/reload with the special Strat still in play.  So, essentially 2d3 Mortals (hitting on 2s usually thanks to signum). 

 

Latest FAQ removed that. 

[Majkhel]

Right. Thanks.
Darn...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Something weird I've been looking at is index land speeders with double heavy flamers in squadrons. And basically make them cheap blight drones that arent as resilient so you take them in a squad.

 

They make excellent troop hunters, and can turbo boost onto objectives late game. A squad of two is 156 points and three is just under 235. I've really enjoyed them lately to slingshot them up a table edge and clear screens/shoot troops off objectives.

[Spiegel]

my suggestion would be:

 

Captain  *

Captain *

Libby Dread *

Lemartes

3x5 Scouts *

1x5 Sniper Scouts

2x5 Intercessors * 

 

4x Scout Bikers *

5x Bikers - 2plasma

9x DC - 2Hammers *
10x Vanvets - 8Shields, 2 Hammers *

5x Devastator - LC, ML, HB, Cherub

2x Contemptor Mortis.

[Morticon]

Something weird I've been looking at is index land speeders with double heavy flamers in squadrons. And basically make them cheap blight drones that arent as resilient so you take them in a squad.

 

They make excellent troop hunters, and can turbo boost onto objectives late game. A squad of two is 156 points and three is just under 235. I've really enjoyed them lately to slingshot them up a table edge and clear screens/shoot troops off objectives.

 

I dont know how much of a staple I'd make this, but its definitely something Id like to try out. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Well it's mostly the 4-6 D6 auto hits at S5 -1AP. If you get first turn you can do some damage with them, and they can be hidden decently enough. But they are a bit more fragile than I like. The positive being they are cheap enough to 1.earn their points back in spades, and 2. Can boost across the board in 1 turn.

[Morticon]

3 seem like the way to go with grav upwash. 

Mnnnn,.....may playtest

[Charlo]

Aye, they're very fast until they take casualties. Excellent Overwatch eaters too ;) big footprint to cover multiple units on the charge aswell.

[keeblerartillery]

So I got the chance to play test my list a couple times this weekend and here are my thoughts (won both games) -

 

Sicarans are just all around solid. Not savage, world beaters, but a big move and solid dakka - with semi exploding sixes - can hurt just about anything. Really like them.

 

Death company + lemartes was a great turn two drop. I had suppressors (they’re ok) on the table to kill over watch and they pulped some heretics...then got shot off the table, but absorbed quite a bit. Maybe not most effective use, but they at least killed something.

 

Which leads me to van vets....I’ve run them in almost every list and all they’ve done is die. Despite the 3++, the 1W doesn’t do much. And they just aren’t choppy enough even when they get in combat. So I’ve decided to drop them and the priest and run a small group of sang guard with a Libby- unleash rage and shield of sanguinius. I like the idea of mephy that you discussed, but can’t quite commit - this way, they can start on the board or drop - with mephy, he’s on the board. Maybe I just need to fly to China and watch you use him lol.

[Morticon]

I havent had a chance to playtest yet, and i've had EXACTLY the same issue with my VanVets- so I guess I will see how it playtests. I'm going to load them out a little differently this time (8 shields, hammer and 2 fists) and then hope that with +1 Rage, they do a little more than usual.  But again, will have to see. 

[Morticon]

First draft: 

 

 

Mephiston

Smash Cap

Sanguinary Priest on Bike (Claw)

Libby Dread

 

5x Scouts

5x Scouts

5x Scouts

5x Sniper Scouts

5x Sniper Scouts

7x Intercessors

7x Intercessors *

 

5x Scout Bikers 

 

10x Van Vets - 8 Shields, Hammer, 2 Fists

10x DC - Hammer, 3 Fists

 

2x Contemptor Mortis - quad las

 

 

-----------

Really need to playtest, because I dont think it puts out enough.  Not sure if the Intercessors will be enough to hold the line after the first wave of assault boys are gone. Will have to see what happens.  

Instead of the second squad of intercessors I was thinking about supressors...but unsure.  

 

[keeblerartillery]

My thoughts - priests aren’t worth it. Solid buff...but the unit they aren’t buffing usually doesn’t stay alive. And the revive thing doesn’t really matter with 1W models. Would go with lemartes instead or another smash cap. If you get 1st then, you can forlorn and wings TWO smash captains and a Libby dread into the enemy. That is plenty of distraction to get jump units up the field.

 

Intercessors are solid - I run 3x5 in every list. BUT - only as troop tax. I don’t like units of 7 or extra troops. Great backline support...but points that can be spent elsewhere. Like on suppressors. Which I ran and liked...but could’ve run better. I recommend starting them on the board.

 

Anxious to hear feedback on mephy v regular Libby. Also curious see how your vets do. Like I said - I’m going to try sang guard next go around with a Libby - unleash and shield. No ancient. Good luck!!

[Morticon]

Thoughts on the use of shield on SG? Do you really see that much ap4 or more?  

 

I'm hearing your thoughts on the priest.  I'm unsure there, to be honest, but would like him for a variety of things- knights (wounding on 2s) and T4 (wounding on 2s).  But I may look to Astorath instead.  I just like the bike movement where 20" can get me EXACTLY where the boost needs to be. 

[keeblerartillery]

I see quite a bit of plasma - so enough that having an invuln save is nice. I probably could go with quickening and have him be a turn 2 mini beat stick...might as well do meph then. Hm.

 

I get you! The issue isn’t him so much as the units he is buffing though. I just feel like I didn’t get the points out of him

[Morticon]

I think there's usually a lot of -3! But 2+ and ap3 still puts you at 5+!

And you came to the same conclusion I did re meph!! I'm really keen to playtest this!

[Shaezus]

Not reading this thread. Just passing by. Honest

 

It's great that you're looking at pure BA, who would ever have thought it might just be competitive one day? I'm having the same thoughts too, and with full DC. Astorath seems the way to go, with my sanguard list anyhow.

 

Chaos soup will probably be the one to watch again, but I can't wait to see what people bring to the table this time around.

 

See you in Shanghai or wherever it turns out to be!

[Remtek]

I ran Mephiston + Libby Dread in practice for a team tournament for roughly 10 games and really enjoyed the same combo. The only issue i found was when facing lists with psykers or deny strats they bottlenecked/could not keep up with the rest of the army. Especially vs Eldar as you need to pressure them a lot early game. It's tough cause Libby Dread is amazing, but not having the third power really hurts too.

 

It helps a bit casting quickening before wings and staying right outside 24" before casting wings, but sometimes it's hard to do if they position correctly. Having both is very powerful! Just watch out for those pesky psykers.

 

 

 

I feel like Mephy doesn’t add much with a Libby dread already in the list - he wants quickening and wings as much as the dread. I like overlapping unit strengths so there aren’t single points of failure - but cancelling out each other isn’t exactly overlapping. 

 

 

 

 

Completely valid critiques!  Hear me out on the logic, though.   Mephy gets 3 powers- So, the third power in most games is likely to be Unleash Rage for the DC.   After that, I'm very likely to double up on Wings and Quickening simply because the attacks are likely to happen in waves.  With the libby dread taking point, and then usually getting smashed in turn 1 or 2, mephy will play the support role until he's needed in the fray. 

Moving him up with his 7" + d6 (because he doesn't need to shoot) means that he will be ready from turn 2 with his move + wings, supporting whatever else has come before.  His small profile means moving through doors and ruin walls is easier, and can help get over lines of screens.  I think instead of playing him as I play the Wings Captain and the Libby dread- as the smashy duo vanguard, Meph will act as a scalpel for the hardy units left over from this wave of attack. 

 

[Morticon]

 

It's great that you're looking at pure BA, who would ever have thought it might just be competitive one day? 

 

I don't know if id say "competitive" but, definitely capable.  Every time I run situations and games in my head the raw damage output is just low, low.  This means that if I win, i'm likely to win narrowly.  Like my old scalpel style of play. But against bruiser lists, it just wont hold up.  I don't think i'll do as well as the NCO, but I want to at least get as high as possible with the BA.  

 

3-2 as a final result I'll be fine with  and would be elated with 4-1.

[Jolemai]

I appreciate that I'm not playing in the same ballpark but this is something I've noticed too. Not enough damage at the start followed by not enough legs towards the end as we run out of steam.

 

The former is problematic (especially if you go second) as you're looking to overload your opponent from the off. Whilst this can be countered with good deployment, you still need to be perfect with your targets otherwise the gamble will fail and what's left won't hold up to much (as an overload makes you top heavy and unbalanced). Too much focus on lasting out and we cause minimal damage (we're not good at hanging around).

 

I'm really struggling to get the balance right with this on my lists of late.

[Majkhel]

So true :/
Recently I've played a fun game for 3000pts. I've brought a balanced list with a Brigade - a nice themed marine force. My opponent also brought a nice themed force: a Knight house-hold (Porphyrion, Valiant, 2 Knights, 3 Helverins, 2 Warglaives)... Didn't have the tools to get them once I brought a first Knight down, but it blew up killing my HQs in the process. 

[Panzer]

Yeah I noticed that in semi-competetive matches as well. My regular AdMech opponent usually has so much damage output the first two turns that I don't really know how to hold against it even when he's not min-maxing his list. In our last game he was deliberately writing a "melee" list (Kastellans with fists, chicken walker with lances, Infiltrators, melee Secutarii from FW, no Onagers, almost no Plasma) and it finally felt like we were playing on the same level ... and only because I managed to take out his Plasma Kataphrons turn 1 by focusing almost everything I had on it.

[Morticon]

I'm trying to look at BA available units which have the highest damage output per point per wound type thing, and see how they can be incorporated.  

I'm finding that or 110 points a Twin-HB/Twin-Auto (6xS5,4xS7) dread is very, very good for fire support. 

The Quad bolter rapier (76) is also tasty, (and the rapier is an amazing choice in ITC format for Engineers on account of how the crew works) but is quite fragile. 

The Sicaran with HBSS at 185 is a solid, solid choice for 9x S5 and 8x S7 shots.

 

 

 

Now to find a way to optimally include these.  

[BrotherAetherick]

and the rapier is an amazing choice in ITC format for Engineers on account of how the crew works) but is quite fragile. 

 

Are you sure the crew rules work for engineers?

 

The ITC mission states: "Units chosen to be Engineers may never benefit from a rule that keeps them from being the target of attacks, Cloud of Flies, for example. They can benefit from terrain blocking Line of Sight to them."

 

and cloud of flies has the same wording as the crew rules, so I think the intent is that they wouldnt benefit from the rule if they are chosen as engineers.

[Morticon]

ah balls!!!! The second time I've screwed up this rule.  

Okay.  Never mind then.  Thanks for the catch!!!!!

(at least they can still be chosen for it!! Easier to hide two models - and they dont need to "shoot" the rapier)

[CaptainHelion]

I recently played a game against Death Guard using a Mort-inspired list, and I found the Quad Mortar rapier to be pretty excellent. It's a bit less efficient than the Quad Bolter, but being able to shoot without line of sight was exceptional, and I imagine can only get better with the Engineers thing on the crew