Road to East China Open - Sept 2019

[Morticon]

Exactly what the phobos Libby does.  Basically working a lot better than Mephy at the moment for 59 points cheaper. Though not as fighty obvs. 

I played two more games today with this list- both did very well.  

The incursors are taking a LOT of heat up front, and are sucking up far too much heavy firepower for my liking.  Havent gotten much mileage out of them yet. 

Invictor has been epic in last three games - DC and VanVets have done well too. 

(when I get the chance, i deploy the mines on objectives)

[Morticon]

Need to fiddle with some stuff.  Forgot the Phobos Libby is still 10points more than new one.  

[keeblerartillery]

What was so good about the invictor? I imagine the fact that is a throw back to the old fragioso in a pod and deleting infantry T1 is the key. Also, is the shock assault finally making VV viable?

 

Any insights into the incursors/infiltrators and how they’ve played would be great. I LOVE the models - but am unsure about paying 110 points per troops slot for scouts+

[Morticon]

What was so good about the invictor? I imagine the fact that is a throw back to the old fragioso in a pod and deleting infantry T1 is the key. Also, is the shock assault finally making VV viable?

 

Any insights into the incursors/infiltrators and how they’ve played would be great. I LOVE the models - but am unsure about paying 110 points per troops slot for scouts+

 

 

The additional movement he has in terms of infiltrating coupled with the 10" move just means he's really able to get to where he needs to be. But, because he doesn't put out as much damage to other things in my list (DC, VanVets, Libby Dread, Smashy, Quad Las) he just seems to draw far less firepower - even though I literally have him there as a distraction carnifex. 

 

In all the games so far he's lasted at least 3 turns (2 games he didnt die). The ability to keep hitting well with the flamer even though damaged is great too. 

 

He's not a real infantry slayer, his damage output is simply modest - but....he's a great support unit that can help with a lot of heavy lifting.  

 

 

As for the infiltrators/incursors - here's something interesting.  I dont feel that the Infiltrators are worth it. But, the Incursors at 5points less (15 points less if you're not playing a mine- but why?) are. 

 

Their guns, while underwhelming for non-codex marines (no ap1 in TacDoc phase), provide enough buffs to actually be on a par with the Intercessors- sometimes even better.  Added to that, they have the blades which generate extra attacks- this means that if they get buffed by Rage, i'm looking at 21 attacks with exploding 6s for this little squad.  Added to that, the ability to drop mines on objectives and force the enemy to take MWs is just great. 

 

They have taken a LOT of heat very quickly, and if I was playtesting the infiltrators instead, I think id be done with them - but I'm going to play a few more games with them, and then maybe pull a hackjob on the models since the tournament is in 19 days. 

[Morticon]

Hey all, so with the list submission this weekend, I may not have time to build the Incursors. 

This leaves me with a bit of wiggle room, which led me to stumble on an idea I hadnt thought of. 

The bikes are solid. 12x T5 wounds - 20bolt shots, plasma and HB support....but theyre just okay.

 

What are your guys thoughts on this:

 

Smashy

Libby Dread

Mephy

Astorath

 

3x5 Scouts

2x5 Snipes 

1x5 Intercessors

 

 

9x VanVet - 7 Shields, 3fists, 1 Axe

10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 4fists

10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers

Invictor - Flamey

 

Quad Contemptor- las
Quad Contemptor- las

 

 

Basically 10 more vanvets- either to split up into 2x5 and support, or act as another hammer/anvil unit.  

 

[Remtek]

I use bikes alot, the only thing i really dislike is not being able to go thru walls in games where you have to hide for a few turns it gives them less options. But i really like them for screening characters and clearing screens.

[Morticon]

I use bikes alot, the only thing i really dislike is not being able to go thru walls in games where you have to hide for a few turns it gives them less options. But i really like them for screening characters and clearing screens.

 

 

So you rate them over the VanVets? 

[keeblerartillery]

I think you need more shooting in this list. I think 2 assault units (plus smash and Libby) is usually enough - you need some way to support them though. Without another reliable way to get the new VanVets in, your dreads will get focused down I feel.

[Spiegel]

How about a Sternguard Drop Pod?

[Morticon]

Ive been thinking about that, Spiegel! 

[Morticon]

I really, really like the idea of the Stern, but I dont think 20 shots is going to cut it.  I'm thinking I may have to go with the bike for some dakka support. 

I've also just seen a VERY scary Khorne list - 60 bloodletters, 2 Warp talon squads and 3 zerkers in rhinos.  Really nice list. Need to have some midrange shooty, for sure. 

[Morticon]

Revamps: 

 

Smashy

Libby Dread

Mephy

Astorath

 

2x5 Scouts

2x5 Snipes 

2x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt

 

10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Axe

10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers

Invictor - Flamey

1x5 Bikes + Attack Bike - Cmbi-Plasma

 

Quad Contemptor- las
Quad Contemptor- las

 

or

 

Smashy

Libby Dread

Mephy

Astorath

 

3x5 Scouts (1w/ StormBolter)

2x5 Snipes 

1x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt

 

10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Sword

10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers

Invictor - Flamey

1x4 Bikes  - Plasma, StormBolter
1x4 Scout Bikes

 

Quad Contemptor- las
Quad Contemptor- las

 

Can also still work a squad of incursors in, but lose out on a bigger dakka bike squad or alternatively the 2nd bike squad.  

Leaning towards the double bike. 

[Remtek]

 

I use bikes alot, the only thing i really dislike is not being able to go thru walls in games where you have to hide for a few turns it gives them less options. But i really like them for screening characters and clearing screens.

 

 

So you rate them over the VanVets? 

 

In games where i play aggressive i think they are much better than van vets, but they really need the fnp banner or else they just disappear to ravagers or lootas. But i think the vanvets are amazing too! But more for hiding in ruins/reserve to counter charge or to tripoint something. But we play with alot of terrain, that might skew what feels strong or not.

 

They are just so good against boyz and similar stuff. A big boy blob with 120 attacks will only usually kill 2-3 bikes after a few die in overwatch. But in my last 2 games vs new marines they pretty much kill anything they see, (vs imperial fists and salamanders) so the bikes kinda feel awkward there since they have to hide and it's more difficult to push out later on with them. Vs new marines it really feels like you are playing vs a mobile Tau army, so anything that can charge thru walls is pure gold.

[Panzer]

Revamps: 

 

 

Smashy

Libby Dread

Mephy

Astorath

 

2x5 Scouts

2x5 Snipes 

2x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt

 

10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Axe

10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers

Invictor - Flamey

 

1x5 Bikes + Attack Bike - Cmbi-Plasma

 

Quad Contemptor- las

Quad Contemptor- las

or

Smashy

Libby Dread

Mephy

Astorath

 

3x5 Scouts (1w/ StormBolter)

2x5 Snipes 

1x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt

 

10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Sword

10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers

Invictor - Flamey

 

1x4 Bikes  - Plasma, StormBolter

1x4 Scout Bikes

 

Quad Contemptor- las

Quad Contemptor- las

Can also still work a squad of incursors in, but lose out on a bigger dakka bike squad or alternatively the 2nd bike squad.  

 

Leaning towards the double bike.

 

The second one looks definitely stronger to me. The damage output is not that different but you have 5 more infiltrating guys and a second unit of bikes which in combination should give you lots more board control.

Edited August 28, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Morticon]

Cut paste error!! None of these have meph. :( all have phobos lib

[Spiegel]

Thomas Hegstrom was undefeated in this year’s Boise Cup and he used the Phobos Lib with Infiltrators to some success. He wrote battle reports of his rounds on frontline gaming. And I think there is also a video report where he plays against the winning ork player. I never played ITC but I think the trick is to do only as much as you have to in every battle round and to pick the right secondary missions.

 

Thomas Hegstrom Oakley – Boise Cup

Sanginor x1
Chaplain with jump pack x1 powerfist
Librarian with jump pack x1 force sword, inferno pistol

Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistols
Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistols
Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistols

Sanginuary Priest with jump pack index x1 chainsword, chainsword
Captain with jump pack x1 thunderhammer, stormshield

Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistols
Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistols
Infiltrators x5 bolt carbines

Librarian in Phobos armour x1 force sword, camo cloak

 

Sanguinary Ancient x1 encarmine sword, inferno pistol, standard of sacrifice
Death Company  x15 5 thunderhammers, 10 chainsword, 10 bolters
Sanguinary Guard x10 8 encarmine swords, 2 powerfists, 10 angelus boltguns

• Operative Requisition Sanctioned -2 CP [5 pl, 85 pts]
• TOTALS: 12 CP, 16 drops [119pl, 1984pts]

Edited August 28, 2019 by Spiegel

[Morticon]

Thats a very strong list, and i'll be up against something similar with Shaezus' list.  I think he's also using 15 DC and 10 SG

[Morticon]

I know i'm going to regret not using the Incursors (and to be honest, even the Infiltrators are growing on me in theory), but....I've almost settled on a list that is a middle ground of mobility and firepower. 

 

Smashy
Libby Dread
Mephy
Astorath
 
3x5 Scouts 
2x5 Snipes 
1x5 Intercessors 
 
9x Vanvet - 7Shields, 2fists.1Axe
10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers
Invictor - Flamey

2x 2 Attack Bikes- HB
1x4 Scout Bikes
 
Quad Contemptor- las
Quad Contemptor- las

Smashy
Libby Dread
Mephy
Astorath
 
3x5 Scouts (1w/ StormBolter)
2x5 Snipes 
1x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt
 
10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Sword
10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers
Invictor - Flamey

1x4 Bikes  - Plasma, StormBolter
1x4 Scout Bikes
 
Quad Contemptor- las
Quad Contemptor- las

[keeblerartillery]

I like list 1 more - dunno why.

[OrbOfAntioch]

Hey Mort! Long time! Couple cents on my send just to muddle your thoughts some more:

 

What's your model situations on bikes? With bolter rules scout bikes shotguns+serg SB / index company vets on bikes all SB/SSs are pretty amazing value. for like 192pts you can get 56 shots from 9 scout bikes. Obviously not the most BA thing to do but still amazing value even without doctrines. 

 

IMO libby dread & astorath are a bit luxurious (btw whos going to be your warlord?) especially with DC&VVets running in your list (we're BA so im not gonna !@#$ with talking you out of using them lol) the extra combat HQs makes mark for death an easy secondary for your opponent on top of headhunter. In place, while I know that the leviathan isnt that great but it's a pretty good bullet magnet to make your opponents rethink target priority. 

 

Bare minimum intercessors are surprisingly good at just sitting in cover on objectives. Nobody really wants to shoot at them with big guns and small guns don't kill them. Sometimes having too many scouts can be a liability if they aren't used in some particularly strategic way, easy kills for progressives. 

 

I guess my last thought would be doing something crazy character heavy but with guardsmen moving up and movemovemoving to protect all of them. If people are going to netlist then most of the jp characters are actually pretty good at killing crimson hunters and calladius. So in that case spending 150 on a CC and 30 dudes and them maybe even having the points for a vigilus hammer of sunderance tank commander could be something synergitic. But with that said that's I guess a completely new list. 

[Morticon]

Orb,

 

Thanks for the thoughts!! Sadly, got to them after list submission.  My stuff is now locked and loaded. 

I'm looking at what I posted above pretty much: 

 

 

 

Smashy

Libby Dread

Mephy

Astorath

 

3x5 Scouts (1 Sb)

2x5 Snipes 

1x5 Intercessors 

 

9x Vanvet - 7Shields, 2fists.1 Maul

10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers

Invictor - Flamey

 

2x 2 Attack Bikes- HB

1x4 Scout Bikes

 

Quad Contemptor- las

Quad Contemptor- las



****************

I played two games yesterday, one vs Eldar and one vs Custodes. 
Getting off mass of doom with a whole bunch of fighty stuff is just so freaking awesome. Pairing that and the Rage Combo is even better. 
The Phobos Libby has been interesting.  He's been a solid support character - hardly dying in games - instead just helping out with shield and rage. The Invictor is MVP in most games so far, and I think next tournament or two I may look to having two....even three.  I expect to see a lot of aggressive marine armies running 3 of these bad boys. 

Get em while theyre hot, because I smell a points increase in the future. 

 

Both games went really well -tabled the custodes in 4 turns, and took the eldar to a 28-14 victory.  Also - realised I had handicapped myself vs. the Eldar and forgot to deploy my attack bikes.  So, I'm happy with what the list has to offer. 

More playtests coming up soon before the tourney in 12 days! 

 

 

 

(PS: The lists sibmitted are pure filth - and its going to be a much much tougher tournament) 

[Morticon]

Been reading through the lists....very, very, very tough opposition. 

Everything looks very, very hard - especially the Tau.  No "easy" matchups.

[Majkhel]

You still have like 10 days? 12? The most important thing will be to remember your objectives. A for now, I would suggest taking some weekend trip to freshen up :) No point in worrying now. 

[Lynnean]

I see youre 1 unit short of a brigade, am i right?

Wouldnt it be worth it to swap astorath for lemmy and try to get that third heavy support slot for the extra CP?

Just a thought.

And how hard is hard? ;P

[Morticon]

Lynnean,i toiled over that for daaaays. The issue was that all I could really drop would be an HQ which I needed. And the other option would be to move the attack bikes into 2*1 and use the points to pick up a eliminator unit. It may have been worth it, but I felt they would be too easy a KP for my enemy.

And sadly, the lists are locked now!!!