Panzer Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I'm finding that or 110 points a Twin-HB/Twin-Auto (6xS5,4xS7) dread is very, very good for fire support. I feel like at that point I'd rather take Suppressors to be honest. For 105p you get 6 S7 AP-2 shots at 48" range. A Dread with HBs pretty much alway in range of every anti tank your opponent has and often has to move so it hits only on 4s and with Autocannons it has less damage output but is more durable for whatever might be in range to actually shoot at it. Though Suppressors are infantry so gain easily cover in ruins for a 2+ save which is not to be underestimated either. Of course at that point it also depends on the rest of your list. If you have enough other armour you might want to go with the Dread to provide more target saturation and if you don't have much other armour you probably don't want to give your opponents anti-tank an easy target by taking just a Dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Currently looking at 2* auto/bolter and 2* quad bolter dreads and a hbss sicaran as fire support Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Didn't realise the suppressor auto is -2. May swing for one unit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkhel Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 "1 is none, 2 is some" ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Here is what I am playtesting next mort, based on your meph ideas and how much I liked the sicarans (and to some extent, suppressors) and disliked the VanVets - ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [36 PL, 679pts] ++ + HQ + Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer + Troops + Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant + Fast Attack + Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 71pts] . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Storm bolter, Twin boltgun Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Grav-chute . Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Grav-chute ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [29 PL, 467pts] ++ + HQ + Chief Librarian Mephiston [8 PL, 160pts]: 1. Quickening, 2. Unleash Rage, 6. Wings of Sanguinus Librarian Dreadnought [9 PL, 142pts]: 1. Quickening, 6. Wings of Sanguinus, Furioso fist, Storm bolter + Troops + Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Combat knife . Scout: Combat knife . Scout: Combat knife . Scout: Combat knife . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [73 PL, 854pts] ++ + HQ + Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts] + Elites + Death Company [18 PL, 200pts]: Jump Pack . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 185pts]: Heavy bolter . Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 165pts]: Heavy bolter Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 204pts] . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Didn't realise the suppressor auto is -2. May swing for one unit I’m waiting until you take larger squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 I would consider a few fists on the DC. Points are tight in your build and the only place I can see you getting them is if you swap out the third detachment and lose a captain instead of lemmy. This will free up some points for 2 more SG too and maybe more HBSS on the other sicaran. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Hm. Good points. I suppose 1 CP won’t make all that much difference. I liked 2 CPT slams but I think I’ll like the fire support more Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 I think the 2 extra fist SG and then the 4 or so fists from D.C. Will make up for it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 You can actually do 3 SG with fists and 3 DC fists with 124 points. Pretty solid!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I added 3 fists to the dc, 2 sang guard (3 of 8 now have fists), a HB to one of my scout squads and sponsons for my sicaran. Great suggestions mort! Looking forward to what you come up with. This means I’ll likely be starting my sang guard on the table. It’s going to be all about positioning now to see if I can get rage on them from mephy if I wings them first turn with slam and Libby dread. But I definitely feel more comfortable with my shooting elements now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Mort - something else I was considering were redemptors - solid midfield fire support for a fairly reasonable price. I was considering dropping the second assault element completely, doubling down on either death company or sang guard as my primary assault force, and really focusing on a durable, mobile fire support element of sicarans and a redemptor or two. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5331776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 Mort - something else I was considering were redemptors - solid midfield fire support for a fairly reasonable price. I was considering dropping the second assault element completely, doubling down on either death company or sang guard as my primary assault force, and really focusing on a durable, mobile fire support element of sicarans and a redemptor or two. Thoughts? Play the One-Two punch for three games first, before you even consider it. Then, after that, give it some thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5332076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Hey Mort, I know you're really liking the scout bikers. Have you looked at combining them alongside some melta/plasma bikers? 140ish points for 10 wounds and 2 melta guns isn't terrible. I've found myself starting to write lists with two, five man squads in an outsider detachment alongside a squad of 3 land speeders with double flamer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5332223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 DBH- interesting you've mentioned it, because yes, I have. A lot of lists I've been designing have actually has three plasma guns in the 5 man biker squad. Really want to check it out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5332666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 DBH- interesting you've mentioned it, because yes, I have. A lot of lists I've been designing have actually has three plasma guns in the 5 man biker squad. Really want to check it out That's cool. Just brainstorming, but they gel perfectly with the biker priest. To replenish wounds, as well as speed and movement. They are basically better ASM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5332846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 As someone who uses grav-bikers somewhat regularly, they get focused HARD :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5332859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Man.....i keep making lists daily - and i can only say that it's tough making a choice between glory and honour :( (Soup vs Pure) Current PURE BA is this: Mephiston Chaplain on Bike (but possibly Astorath) Smash Cap Libby Dread. 3x5 Scouts - SBs 1x5 Snipers 1x5 Snipers- cloaks 1x5 Intercessors 10x DC - Hammer, 2fists, 6flamers 10x VV - Hammer, 2fists, 2 Axes, 8shields 5x Scout Bikers - cmbi-plas 5x Bikers - cmbi-plas, 2Plasguns Quad Mortis - las Quad Mortis - las ******* It's strong. It's solid. But, it's not devastating. It really is a reactive scalpel list - something that tries to isolate and cut off parts of the enemy piece-meal. I'd love to play it, but when I compare it to my revamped version of my last list.... ******** Smash Cap Libby Dread 3x 5 Scouts 9x DC - Hammer, fist, 2 Axes, 5 flamers. 5x Scout Bikers DW Libby - jp, SB, axe DW Captain - jp, hammer, SB 10x Intercessors 10x Veterans (5 bikes, 5shields, 5SB) 10x Veterans (2Terms, 1Bike, 1Vanguard, 1 Frag, 7 SB, 6 Shields) Quad Mortis - Las Quad Mortis - Las ******** This for example - is almost the same as my tourney list. The big difference is the loss of the libby, assassin and Tfire. But, I gain the DC squad, which will make my first turns even more devastating. It plays identically and only really loses the distraction carnifex of the phobos libby and the obviously really nice protection from -1 to hit on the dreads and scout bikers. But, with the changes I beefed up the Vets like i wanted to do, and then can use the Quad Mortis with DW abilities- (Imagine rerolling hits and wounds of 2+ vs a Knight!!) It's going to be a tough call. Will see how it goes in playtesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What about an Assassin? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 What about an Assassin? He was useful last time, but I'm not sure game changing. I think I could get more from the DC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 (I'll also probably need those two CP for Forlorn on the DC, and then Wings on the Cap! ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnean Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What about tarantulas? might be enough to fix up a brigade! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 What about tarantulas? might be enough to fix up a brigade! Actually tried to make a brigade at one stage- but wasn't as strong! Cant get the points for one more Elite, Heavy and Fast, sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnean Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Fair. Apparently someone has had some success running a brigade, coming in 4th at a GT: Smash Lemartes Sanguinor 6x scouts 15 deathcompany (5 power swords) Sanguinary ancient with power fist 10 Sanguinary guard (2 power fists) 3x 3 scout bikers (sergeant storm bolter) 3x 5 devastators (1 heavy bolter, cherub) Although this really gives food for thought, im not sure how this list deals with big knighty targets besides throwing the SG against it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Looks like that list takes advantage of not having any proper targets for the opponents anti-knight weaponry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/3/#findComment-5334900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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