Morticon Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Exactly what the phobos Libby does. Basically working a lot better than Mephy at the moment for 59 points cheaper. Though not as fighty obvs. I played two more games today with this list- both did very well. The incursors are taking a LOT of heat up front, and are sucking up far too much heavy firepower for my liking. Havent gotten much mileage out of them yet. Invictor has been epic in last three games - DC and VanVets have done well too. (when I get the chance, i deploy the mines on objectives) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5373550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Need to fiddle with some stuff. Forgot the Phobos Libby is still 10points more than new one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5373971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 What was so good about the invictor? I imagine the fact that is a throw back to the old fragioso in a pod and deleting infantry T1 is the key. Also, is the shock assault finally making VV viable? Any insights into the incursors/infiltrators and how they’ve played would be great. I LOVE the models - but am unsure about paying 110 points per troops slot for scouts+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5374179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 What was so good about the invictor? I imagine the fact that is a throw back to the old fragioso in a pod and deleting infantry T1 is the key. Also, is the shock assault finally making VV viable? Any insights into the incursors/infiltrators and how they’ve played would be great. I LOVE the models - but am unsure about paying 110 points per troops slot for scouts+ The additional movement he has in terms of infiltrating coupled with the 10" move just means he's really able to get to where he needs to be. But, because he doesn't put out as much damage to other things in my list (DC, VanVets, Libby Dread, Smashy, Quad Las) he just seems to draw far less firepower - even though I literally have him there as a distraction carnifex. In all the games so far he's lasted at least 3 turns (2 games he didnt die). The ability to keep hitting well with the flamer even though damaged is great too. He's not a real infantry slayer, his damage output is simply modest - but....he's a great support unit that can help with a lot of heavy lifting. As for the infiltrators/incursors - here's something interesting. I dont feel that the Infiltrators are worth it. But, the Incursors at 5points less (15 points less if you're not playing a mine- but why?) are. Their guns, while underwhelming for non-codex marines (no ap1 in TacDoc phase), provide enough buffs to actually be on a par with the Intercessors- sometimes even better. Added to that, they have the blades which generate extra attacks- this means that if they get buffed by Rage, i'm looking at 21 attacks with exploding 6s for this little squad. Added to that, the ability to drop mines on objectives and force the enemy to take MWs is just great. They have taken a LOT of heat very quickly, and if I was playtesting the infiltrators instead, I think id be done with them - but I'm going to play a few more games with them, and then maybe pull a hackjob on the models since the tournament is in 19 days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5374488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 Hey all, so with the list submission this weekend, I may not have time to build the Incursors. This leaves me with a bit of wiggle room, which led me to stumble on an idea I hadnt thought of. The bikes are solid. 12x T5 wounds - 20bolt shots, plasma and HB support....but theyre just okay. What are your guys thoughts on this: Smashy Libby Dread Mephy Astorath 3x5 Scouts 2x5 Snipes 1x5 Intercessors 9x VanVet - 7 Shields, 3fists, 1 Axe 10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 4fists 10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers Invictor - Flamey Quad Contemptor- lasQuad Contemptor- las Basically 10 more vanvets- either to split up into 2x5 and support, or act as another hammer/anvil unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I use bikes alot, the only thing i really dislike is not being able to go thru walls in games where you have to hide for a few turns it gives them less options. But i really like them for screening characters and clearing screens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 I use bikes alot, the only thing i really dislike is not being able to go thru walls in games where you have to hide for a few turns it gives them less options. But i really like them for screening characters and clearing screens. So you rate them over the VanVets? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I think you need more shooting in this list. I think 2 assault units (plus smash and Libby) is usually enough - you need some way to support them though. Without another reliable way to get the new VanVets in, your dreads will get focused down I feel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiegel Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 How about a Sternguard Drop Pod? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 Ive been thinking about that, Spiegel! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 I really, really like the idea of the Stern, but I dont think 20 shots is going to cut it. I'm thinking I may have to go with the bike for some dakka support. I've also just seen a VERY scary Khorne list - 60 bloodletters, 2 Warp talon squads and 3 zerkers in rhinos. Really nice list. Need to have some midrange shooty, for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 Revamps: Smashy Libby Dread Mephy Astorath 2x5 Scouts 2x5 Snipes 2x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt 10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Axe 10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers Invictor - Flamey 1x5 Bikes + Attack Bike - Cmbi-Plasma Quad Contemptor- lasQuad Contemptor- las or Smashy Libby Dread Mephy Astorath 3x5 Scouts (1w/ StormBolter) 2x5 Snipes 1x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt 10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Sword 10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers Invictor - Flamey 1x4 Bikes - Plasma, StormBolter1x4 Scout Bikes Quad Contemptor- lasQuad Contemptor- las Can also still work a squad of incursors in, but lose out on a bigger dakka bike squad or alternatively the 2nd bike squad. Leaning towards the double bike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I use bikes alot, the only thing i really dislike is not being able to go thru walls in games where you have to hide for a few turns it gives them less options. But i really like them for screening characters and clearing screens. So you rate them over the VanVets? In games where i play aggressive i think they are much better than van vets, but they really need the fnp banner or else they just disappear to ravagers or lootas. But i think the vanvets are amazing too! But more for hiding in ruins/reserve to counter charge or to tripoint something. But we play with alot of terrain, that might skew what feels strong or not. They are just so good against boyz and similar stuff. A big boy blob with 120 attacks will only usually kill 2-3 bikes after a few die in overwatch. But in my last 2 games vs new marines they pretty much kill anything they see, (vs imperial fists and salamanders) so the bikes kinda feel awkward there since they have to hide and it's more difficult to push out later on with them. Vs new marines it really feels like you are playing vs a mobile Tau army, so anything that can charge thru walls is pure gold. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Revamps: Smashy Libby Dread Mephy Astorath 2x5 Scouts 2x5 Snipes 2x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt 10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Axe 10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers Invictor - Flamey 1x5 Bikes + Attack Bike - Cmbi-Plasma Quad Contemptor- las Quad Contemptor- las or Smashy Libby Dread Mephy Astorath 3x5 Scouts (1w/ StormBolter) 2x5 Snipes 1x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt 10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Sword 10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers Invictor - Flamey 1x4 Bikes - Plasma, StormBolter 1x4 Scout Bikes Quad Contemptor- las Quad Contemptor- las Can also still work a squad of incursors in, but lose out on a bigger dakka bike squad or alternatively the 2nd bike squad. Leaning towards the double bike. The second one looks definitely stronger to me. The damage output is not that different but you have 5 more infiltrating guys and a second unit of bikes which in combination should give you lots more board control. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 Cut paste error!! None of these have meph. :( all have phobos lib Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5375905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiegel Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Thomas Hegstrom was undefeated in this year’s Boise Cup and he used the Phobos Lib with Infiltrators to some success. He wrote battle reports of his rounds on frontline gaming. And I think there is also a video report where he plays against the winning ork player. I never played ITC but I think the trick is to do only as much as you have to in every battle round and to pick the right secondary missions. Thomas Hegstrom Oakley – Boise Cup Sanginor x1Chaplain with jump pack x1 powerfistLibrarian with jump pack x1 force sword, inferno pistol Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistolsScouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistolsScouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistols Sanginuary Priest with jump pack index x1 chainsword, chainswordCaptain with jump pack x1 thunderhammer, stormshield Scouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistolsScouts x5 stormbolter on sergeant, combat knives, bolt pistolsInfiltrators x5 bolt carbines Librarian in Phobos armour x1 force sword, camo cloak Sanguinary Ancient x1 encarmine sword, inferno pistol, standard of sacrificeDeath Company x15 5 thunderhammers, 10 chainsword, 10 boltersSanguinary Guard x10 8 encarmine swords, 2 powerfists, 10 angelus boltguns Operative Requisition Sanctioned -2 CP [5 pl, 85 pts] TOTALS: 12 CP, 16 drops [119pl, 1984pts] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5376130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 Thats a very strong list, and i'll be up against something similar with Shaezus' list. I think he's also using 15 DC and 10 SG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5376556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 I know i'm going to regret not using the Incursors (and to be honest, even the Infiltrators are growing on me in theory), but....I've almost settled on a list that is a middle ground of mobility and firepower. SmashyLibby DreadMephyAstorath 3x5 Scouts 2x5 Snipes 1x5 Intercessors 9x Vanvet - 7Shields, 2fists.1Axe10x DC - 5fists, 5flamersInvictor - Flamey2x 2 Attack Bikes- HB1x4 Scout Bikes Quad Contemptor- lasQuad Contemptor- las SmashyLibby DreadMephyAstorath 3x5 Scouts (1w/ StormBolter)2x5 Snipes 1x5 Intercessors - AutoBolt 10x Vanvet - 8Shields, 3fists.1Sword10x DC - 5fists, 5flamersInvictor - Flamey1x4 Bikes - Plasma, StormBolter1x4 Scout Bikes Quad Contemptor- lasQuad Contemptor- las Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5377675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I like list 1 more - dunno why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5378419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbOfAntioch Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Hey Mort! Long time! Couple cents on my send just to muddle your thoughts some more: What's your model situations on bikes? With bolter rules scout bikes shotguns+serg SB / index company vets on bikes all SB/SSs are pretty amazing value. for like 192pts you can get 56 shots from 9 scout bikes. Obviously not the most BA thing to do but still amazing value even without doctrines. IMO libby dread & astorath are a bit luxurious (btw whos going to be your warlord?) especially with DC&VVets running in your list (we're BA so im not gonna !@#$ with talking you out of using them lol) the extra combat HQs makes mark for death an easy secondary for your opponent on top of headhunter. In place, while I know that the leviathan isnt that great but it's a pretty good bullet magnet to make your opponents rethink target priority. Bare minimum intercessors are surprisingly good at just sitting in cover on objectives. Nobody really wants to shoot at them with big guns and small guns don't kill them. Sometimes having too many scouts can be a liability if they aren't used in some particularly strategic way, easy kills for progressives. I guess my last thought would be doing something crazy character heavy but with guardsmen moving up and movemovemoving to protect all of them. If people are going to netlist then most of the jp characters are actually pretty good at killing crimson hunters and calladius. So in that case spending 150 on a CC and 30 dudes and them maybe even having the points for a vigilus hammer of sunderance tank commander could be something synergitic. But with that said that's I guess a completely new list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5379001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Orb, Thanks for the thoughts!! Sadly, got to them after list submission. My stuff is now locked and loaded. I'm looking at what I posted above pretty much: Smashy Libby Dread Mephy Astorath 3x5 Scouts (1 Sb) 2x5 Snipes 1x5 Intercessors 9x Vanvet - 7Shields, 2fists.1 Maul 10x DC - 5fists, 5flamers Invictor - Flamey 2x 2 Attack Bikes- HB 1x4 Scout Bikes Quad Contemptor- las Quad Contemptor- las****************I played two games yesterday, one vs Eldar and one vs Custodes. Getting off mass of doom with a whole bunch of fighty stuff is just so freaking awesome. Pairing that and the Rage Combo is even better. The Phobos Libby has been interesting. He's been a solid support character - hardly dying in games - instead just helping out with shield and rage. The Invictor is MVP in most games so far, and I think next tournament or two I may look to having two....even three. I expect to see a lot of aggressive marine armies running 3 of these bad boys. Get em while theyre hot, because I smell a points increase in the future. Both games went really well -tabled the custodes in 4 turns, and took the eldar to a 28-14 victory. Also - realised I had handicapped myself vs. the Eldar and forgot to deploy my attack bikes. So, I'm happy with what the list has to offer. More playtests coming up soon before the tourney in 12 days! (PS: The lists sibmitted are pure filth - and its going to be a much much tougher tournament) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5379725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Been reading through the lists....very, very, very tough opposition. Everything looks very, very hard - especially the Tau. No "easy" matchups. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5379839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkhel Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 You still have like 10 days? 12? The most important thing will be to remember your objectives. A for now, I would suggest taking some weekend trip to freshen up :) No point in worrying now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5379847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnean Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I see youre 1 unit short of a brigade, am i right? Wouldnt it be worth it to swap astorath for lemmy and try to get that third heavy support slot for the extra CP? Just a thought. And how hard is hard? ;P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5379942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Lynnean,i toiled over that for daaaays. The issue was that all I could really drop would be an HQ which I needed. And the other option would be to move the attack bikes into 2*1 and use the points to pick up a eliminator unit. It may have been worth it, but I felt they would be too easy a KP for my enemy. And sadly, the lists are locked now!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356249-road-to-east-china-open-sept-2019/page/6/#findComment-5379957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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