Biscuittzz Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 -Most Codex Space Marine datasheets can be consolidated into a single unit entry. The HQs are the worst offenders. A lot of what you say is correct and has some very good ideas but I'll pick a bone with this one. You're absolutely right that they can be consolidated but they won't. If the datasheet has a model that represents it, they won't consolidate it. Completely for trademark/IP reasons. Take a look at the different captains e.g. gravis, normal and phobos. All could have the same entry and just use the armour as an upgrade. When the upgrade is taken just state what rules apply. But they can't trademark it. They can protect the IP of ' Primaris Captain in Phobos Armour' however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I don’t think that’s as relevant for an army list as it is for actually branding a model though, is it? Models and kits need to be protected. You still buy ‘Chaos Champion with Executioner Axe’ or whatever, but you can run him as a sergeant. Or you can make you own and run him as an executioner. In the podcasts they say the data sheet model is simply for accessibility and book layout. That was Robin, Jervis, and Emma. While I’m sure some kind of misguided IP hocus pocus was behind models losing all their authenticity and soul with wargear choices I don’t think the data sheet format itself is driven by that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Just on the idea that black Templars aren't popular brought to have their own codex, from our very of BaC Black Templars 5,232 topics 108,541 replies Blood Angels 7,626 topics 176,400 replies Dark Angels 5,120 topics 113,970 replies Space Wolves 12,062 topics 216,517 replies Ultramarines 1,728 topics 36,914 replies My personal opinion is that there should be a primaris marines codex, plus a space wolf codex and I think that is borne out by the popularity of space wolves. If there are to continue to be separate codexes then black Templars deserve one as much as the other, particularly if you add in imperial/crimson fists. The focus given to ultramarines looks hard to justify, given how comparatively few people are talking about them but I guess they form the model for all their various successors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 That's interesting but also funny. A lot of people on the forums claim that competitive units don't matter much to many hobbyists, yet I see no black Templars in any hobby groups on the Internet and Marines are heavily represented by Raven Guard and Ultramarines currently. All those white scar armies have also vanished, apparently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 That's interesting but also funny. A lot of people on the forums claim that competitive units don't matter much to many hobbyists, yet I see no black Templars in any hobby groups on the Internet and Marines are heavily represented by Raven Guard and Ultramarines currently. All those white scar armies have also vanished, apparently. Confirmation bias.Maybe you follow groups that have more ultra players, just like I follow groups that have BT players. Also we know that BT haven't been competitive for a while, especially now with an underwhelming CT, so it's not surprising to see they are not showing up on a competitive setting. No one will play with BT lacking CC buffs on a shooting meta. Like you said yourself, all those WS armies are gone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I would totally collect BT i they didn't wear black. Can't be arsed painting black again after my ravenwing force. Plus battle monks with battle crusaders is a fun combo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 That's interesting but also funny. A lot of people on the forums claim that competitive units don't matter much to many hobbyists, yet I see no black Templars in any hobby groups on the Internet and Marines are heavily represented by Raven Guard and Ultramarines currently. All those white scar armies have also vanished, apparently. Confirmation bias.Maybe you follow groups that have more ultra players, just like I follow groups that have BT players. Also we know that BT haven't been competitive for a while, especially now with an underwhelming CT, so it's not surprising to see they are not showing up on a competitive setting. No one will play with BT lacking CC buffs on a shooting meta. Like you said yourself, all those WS armies are gone. Let's not take that particular bait, please. This really isn't the topic. I think we can all agree that an all-marine codex will be detrimental to the lore of any and all chapters individually, especially those that currently have extensive independent lore (that will need to be downsized to avoid book bloat). Having said that, is it really an issue ? Are codexes really the place for lore (as opposed to campaign books or Black Library novels) ? TBH I think that's open to debate, I'm not much into wolves or DA books (short of the heresy ones), but as far as BTs are concerned, there's as much lore established in Helsreach and Eternal Crusader than any codex... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Meanwhile, outside the lavish palace of Versailles, the French peasantry is just happy they can afford a chicken this Sunday for the first time in decades.More seriously, a consolidated codex would—hopefully—make a few discrepancies disappear. Like having to use Space Wolves (or even Chaos) if you wanted two special weapons in a tactical squad. Or having to make your space marines come from Sanguinius' bloodline if you wanted to use meltaguns and plasmaguns instead of only flamers on your assault marines. Or, going back far enough, having to learn the Dark Angels' secret handshake if you wanted a plasma cannon in your tactical squad.Primaris are an excellent opportunity to level the field and salt the earth with the ground bones of such discrepancies, but I doubt that will happen. Games Workshop are entirely willing to nuke their property if they believe they have something to gain from it—except for space marines. The Old World was dragged behind a barn for the heinous crime of not being appropriate for space marines, after all; and now we have ground marines kicking about in all the realms.(The Black Templars' fate does throw a wrench into that reasoning, yes. I still don't know why that happened.)The Horus Heresy proved it was possible to make a good consolidated army list (give or take the designers' usual struggle with balance). Again, though, not expecting it to happen.Then again, I wouldn't believe the Sisters of Battle finally came to plastic if I held one of their sprues in my hands, so yeah. I personally think SM should have one book, and the old Imperial Guard doctrine system to let players customize how they want their force to perform. Never gonna happen, obviously, what with the streamlined, competition focus we have now. That'd be Codex: Space Marines, 4th Edition.I don't know why they removed that customization, but I suspect this might have something to do with the players using the chapter traits to make minmaxed armies rather than the intended goal of adding flavor and allowing those who're more into the lore to play their favorite chapters (whether official or DIY). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 The French peasants should eat cake if they are hungry! Is that a guillotine? Seriously tho, if its primaris only make it go all in one codex pls. Obviously it would be way too much bloat for FirstGen and primaris. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I would happily buy a codex that consolidated Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, and Codex: Space Wolves into one book. Whether or not the Deathwatch should be similarly included is debatable, though I can see arguments for their inclusion in said book. The Grey Knights, though, are substantially different and should remain a separate book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I don't think they should combine them into one codex, I started playing in third edition and the first batches of codex were super tiny and you didn't really know your fraction like you do now. For most of us on this forum we already most of the fluff in them, but I think its important for new players to have it, and in combined codex we will all lose some. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurica Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Just imagine how bloated and thick the codex would be if they were all consolidated into one Book... wouldn't want to lug that around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Which is why they should make one for universal units and vehicles and an index for special units, rules, and characters. Don’t play a Chapter of Renown? You only need one book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Which is why they should make one for universal units and vehicles and an index for special units, rules, and characters. Don’t play a Chapter of Renown? You only need one book. But if you do, then you need two all of a sudden. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5356995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 People complained about the 3rd ed dex and mini suppliments back in the day, why go back to that? As for the divergent chapters only having their own dex now because they used to have their own mini dex's in 3rd isnt quite true, Wolves had their own fat dex in 2nd, Blood Angels and Dark Angels shared a massive book. If you combine all the books you will get a massive book with a price point to rival the Heresy books, sure you could cut the fluff and sell fluff books as well but then customers have to buy ANOTHER book to learn the lore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I mean, I'm of the firm opinion that GW should release their rules as free downloads. Sell the books full of lore sure, but the rules should be free. Just like the other major tabletop games. They claim they're a company focussed on the models, but then have the gall to charge a fairly exorbitant amount for the core rules and codexes. They didn't even make a mini rulebook this edition. And if your making a pdf codex with no fluff, making a single major marine one with all the shared units, and an index article for each chapter is pretty freaking easy to do. But not for print versions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I mean, I'm of the firm opinion that GW should release their rules as free downloads. Sell the books full of lore sure, but the rules should be free. Just like the other major tabletop games. They claim they're a company focussed on the models, but then have the gall to charge a fairly exorbitant amount for the core rules and codexes. They didn't even make a mini rulebook this edition. And if your making a pdf codex with no fluff, making a single major marine one with all the shared units, and an index article for each chapter is pretty freaking easy to do. But not for print versions They made those claims under a different CEO. Now they are very much a model AND gaming focused business, hosting and supporting tournaments worldwide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 I’m sure they make a killing on selling rules . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Well it appears they are going back to the master book with supplement model. Sounds like every first founding chapter is getting a supplement, so they have done a bit like I have suggested earlier in the thread :) https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/03/apocalypse-mega-battle-and-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 This is fantastic. Now everyone can be updated at the same time, and each supplament can flesh out the chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I don't mind the idea of all the armies being in one book, but it would be so unwieldy and difficult to use. My vote would be for a single book which contains all the "shared" units and then a return to actual supplements which would contain the relevant unique units and special characters, along with a picklist of what you can take from the main book. I should get a prize. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I don't mind the idea of all the armies being in one book, but it would be so unwieldy and difficult to use. My vote would be for a single book which contains all the "shared" units and then a return to actual supplements which would contain the relevant unique units and special characters, along with a picklist of what you can take from the main book. I should get a prize. You nailed it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Called it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 So I'm totally surprised. I really didn't think GW would do this but I'm happy to see Codex Supplements for all Chapters. Amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 If khorne berzerkers get that additional attack on the charge ON TOP of the one their trait grants them, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357432-should-all-the-chapters-be-rolled-into-one-codex/page/3/#findComment-5357739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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