Should all the chapters be rolled into one codex?

[Biscuittzz]

-Most Codex Space Marine datasheets can be consolidated into a single unit entry. The HQs are the worst offenders.

 

 

A lot of what you say is correct and has some very good ideas but I'll pick a bone with this one. You're absolutely right that they can be consolidated but they won't. If the datasheet has a model that represents it, they won't consolidate it. Completely for trademark/IP reasons. Take a look at the different captains e.g. gravis, normal and phobos. All could have the same entry and just use the armour as an upgrade. When the upgrade is taken just state what rules apply. 

 

But they can't trademark it. They can protect the IP of ' Primaris Captain in Phobos Armour' however.

[Marshal Rohr]

I don’t think that’s as relevant for an army list as it is for actually branding a model though, is it? Models and kits need to be protected. You still buy ‘Chaos Champion with Executioner Axe’ or whatever, but you can run him as a sergeant. Or you can make you own and run him as an executioner. In the podcasts they say the data sheet model is simply for accessibility and book layout. That was Robin, Jervis, and Emma. While I’m sure some kind of misguided IP hocus pocus was behind models losing all their authenticity and soul with wargear choices I don’t think the data sheet format itself is driven by that. Edited August 1, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Red_Shift]

Just on the idea that black Templars aren't popular brought to have their own codex, from our very of BaC

 

Black Templars 5,232 topics

108,541 replies

 

Blood Angels 7,626 topics

176,400 replies

 

Dark Angels 5,120 topics

113,970 replies

 

Space Wolves 12,062 topics

216,517 replies

 

Ultramarines 1,728 topics

36,914 replies

 

My personal opinion is that there should be a primaris marines codex, plus a space wolf codex and I think that is borne out by the popularity of space wolves. If there are to continue to be separate codexes then black Templars deserve one as much as the other, particularly if you add in imperial/crimson fists. The focus given to ultramarines looks hard to justify, given how comparatively few people are talking about them but I guess they form the model for all their various successors.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Red_Shift

[Ishagu]

That's interesting but also funny. A lot of people on the forums claim that competitive units don't matter much to many hobbyists, yet I see no black Templars in any hobby groups on the Internet and Marines are heavily represented by Raven Guard and Ultramarines currently.

 

All those white scar armies have also vanished, apparently.

[Sete]

That's interesting but also funny. A lot of people on the forums claim that competitive units don't matter much to many hobbyists, yet I see no black Templars in any hobby groups on the Internet and Marines are heavily represented by Raven Guard and Ultramarines currently.

 

All those white scar armies have also vanished, apparently.

Confirmation bias.

Maybe you follow groups that have more ultra players, just like I follow groups that have BT players.

 

Also we know that BT haven't been competitive for a while, especially now with an underwhelming CT, so it's not surprising to see they are not showing up on a competitive setting. No one will play with BT lacking CC buffs on a shooting meta.

 

Like you said yourself, all those WS armies are gone.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Sete

[Hantheman]

I would totally collect BT i they didn't wear black. Can't be arsed painting black again after my ravenwing force. Plus battle monks with battle crusaders is a fun combo

[Ciler]

 

That's interesting but also funny. A lot of people on the forums claim that competitive units don't matter much to many hobbyists, yet I see no black Templars in any hobby groups on the Internet and Marines are heavily represented by Raven Guard and Ultramarines currently.

 

All those white scar armies have also vanished, apparently.

Confirmation bias.

Maybe you follow groups that have more ultra players, just like I follow groups that have BT players.

 

Also we know that BT haven't been competitive for a while, especially now with an underwhelming CT, so it's not surprising to see they are not showing up on a competitive setting. No one will play with BT lacking CC buffs on a shooting meta.

 

Like you said yourself, all those WS armies are gone.

 

Let's not take that particular bait, please. This really isn't the topic.

 

I think we can all agree that an all-marine codex will be detrimental to the lore of any and all chapters individually, especially those that currently have extensive independent lore (that will need to be downsized to avoid book bloat). Having said that, is it really an issue ? Are codexes really the place for lore (as opposed to campaign books or Black Library novels) ?

 

TBH I think that's open to debate, I'm not much into wolves or DA books (short of the heresy ones), but as far as BTs are concerned, there's as much lore established in Helsreach and Eternal Crusader than any codex...

[Knight of the Raven]

Meanwhile, outside the lavish palace of Versailles, the French peasantry is just happy they can afford a chicken this Sunday for the first time in decades.

More seriously, a consolidated codex would—hopefully—make a few discrepancies disappear. Like having to use Space Wolves (or even Chaos) if you wanted two special weapons in a tactical squad. Or having to make your space marines come from Sanguinius' bloodline if you wanted to use meltaguns and plasmaguns instead of only flamers on your assault marines. Or, going back far enough, having to learn the Dark Angels' secret handshake if you wanted a plasma cannon in your tactical squad.

Primaris are an excellent opportunity to level the field and salt the earth with the ground bones of such discrepancies, but I doubt that will happen. Games Workshop are entirely willing to nuke their property if they believe they have something to gain from it—except for space marines. The Old World was dragged behind a barn for the heinous crime of not being appropriate for space marines, after all; and now we have ground marines kicking about in all the realms.

(The Black Templars' fate does throw a wrench into that reasoning, yes. I still don't know why that happened.)

The Horus Heresy proved it was possible to make a good consolidated army list (give or take the designers' usual struggle with balance). Again, though, not expecting it to happen.

Then again, I wouldn't believe the Sisters of Battle finally came to plastic if I held one of their sprues in my hands, so yeah.
 

I personally think SM should have one book, and the old Imperial Guard doctrine system to let players customize how they want their force to perform. Never gonna happen, obviously, what with the streamlined, competition focus we have now.

That'd be Codex: Space Marines, 4th Edition.

I don't know why they removed that customization, but I suspect this might have something to do with the players using the chapter traits to make minmaxed armies rather than the intended goal of adding flavor and allowing those who're more into the lore to play their favorite chapters (whether official or DIY).

[Sete]

The French peasants should eat cake if they are hungry!

Is that a guillotine?

 

Seriously tho, if its primaris only make it go all in one codex pls.

Obviously it would be way too much bloat for FirstGen and primaris.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Sete

[Brother Tyler]

I would happily buy a codex that consolidated Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, and Codex: Space Wolves into one book. Whether or not the Deathwatch should be similarly included is debatable, though I can see arguments for their inclusion in said book. The Grey Knights, though, are substantially different and should remain a separate book.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think they should combine them into one codex, I started playing in third edition and the first batches of codex were super tiny and you didn't really know your fraction like you do now. For most of us on this forum we already most of the fluff in them, but I think its important for new players to have it, and in combined codex we will all lose some.

[Aurica]

Just imagine how bloated and thick the codex would be if they were all consolidated into one Book... wouldn't want to lug that around.

[Marshal Rohr]

Which is why they should make one for universal units and vehicles and an index for special units, rules, and characters. Don’t play a Chapter of Renown? You only need one book.

[Lemondish]

Which is why they should make one for universal units and vehicles and an index for special units, rules, and characters. Don’t play a Chapter of Renown? You only need one book.

But if you do, then you need two all of a sudden.

[Slave to Darkness]

People complained about the 3rd ed dex and mini suppliments back in the day, why go back to that?

 

As for the divergent chapters only having their own dex now because they used to have their own mini dex's in 3rd isnt quite true, Wolves had their own fat dex in 2nd, Blood Angels and Dark Angels shared a massive book.

 

If you combine all the books you will get a massive book with a price point to rival the Heresy books, sure you could cut the fluff and sell fluff books as well but then customers have to buy ANOTHER book to learn the lore.

[The Unseen]

I mean, I'm of the firm opinion that GW should release their rules as free downloads.

Sell the books full of lore sure, but the rules should be free.

Just like the other major tabletop games.

 

They claim they're a company focussed on the models, but then have the gall to charge a fairly exorbitant amount for the core rules and codexes.

They didn't even make a mini rulebook this edition.

 

And if your making a pdf codex with no fluff, making a single major marine one with all the shared units, and an index article for each chapter is pretty freaking easy to do.

 

But not for print versions

[Ishagu]

I mean, I'm of the firm opinion that GW should release their rules as free downloads.

Sell the books full of lore sure, but the rules should be free.

Just like the other major tabletop games.

 

They claim they're a company focussed on the models, but then have the gall to charge a fairly exorbitant amount for the core rules and codexes.

They didn't even make a mini rulebook this edition.

 

And if your making a pdf codex with no fluff, making a single major marine one with all the shared units, and an index article for each chapter is pretty freaking easy to do.

 

But not for print versions

They made those claims under a different CEO. Now they are very much a model AND gaming focused business, hosting and supporting tournaments worldwide.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m sure they make a killing on selling rules .

[Robbienw]

Well it appears they are going back to the master book with supplement model. Sounds like every first founding chapter is getting a supplement, so they have done a bit like I have suggested earlier in the thread :)

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/03/apocalypse-mega-battle-and-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/

[Ishagu]

This is fantastic. Now everyone can be updated at the same time, and each supplament can flesh out the chapters.

[Halandaar]

I don't mind the idea of all the armies being in one book, but it would be so unwieldy and difficult to use.

 

My vote would be for a single book which contains all the "shared" units and then a return to actual supplements which would contain the relevant unique units and special characters, along with a picklist of what you can take from the main book.

 

I should get a prize.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I don't mind the idea of all the armies being in one book, but it would be so unwieldy and difficult to use.

 

My vote would be for a single book which contains all the "shared" units and then a return to actual supplements which would contain the relevant unique units and special characters, along with a picklist of what you can take from the main book.

I should get a prize.

You nailed it.

[War Angel]

Called it.

[Captain Idaho]

So I'm totally surprised. I really didn't think GW would do this but I'm happy to see Codex Supplements for all Chapters. Amazing.

[Ciler]

If khorne berzerkers get that additional attack on the charge ON TOP of the one their trait grants them, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.