Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

[SydonianDragoon404]

Here's what I'm thinking:

 

Deploy a 10 man squad of Incursors and an Invictor in your opponent's face. 

Take a drop pod with grav devastators and whatever else

Take a second drop pod either with a dreadnought or an infantry unit + captain

Pray for turn 1

 

You have a huge force right in your opponent's face, a mix of Primaris and classic marine units that are sure to mess with their front lines. If you think your chances of first turn are low depending on what type of deployment rules you're using, a more conservative deployment of your vanguard units using terrain might be called for. 

 

And of course, you don't want to sit them directly in front of a huge squad a genestealers either. 

[Marshal Vespasian]

And they Updated fw stuff too to Match the new rules. Cool. This is basicly everything I asked for like a few pages back.

 

Nova is in ten days or something like that right? We'll propably hear more about this psychic awakening Event and Supplements then.

[AlmightyWalrus]

Won't have Grimaldus in range turn 1 though, because he can only activate the Litany at the start of the turn.

[Link2edition]

Won't have Grimaldus in range turn 1 though, because he can only activate the Litany at the start of the turn.

True

[Closet Skeleton]

So Initiates are 13 pts per each while tac squad is 12 pts per each?

 

Tactical marines are 12 because they're updated, this PDF is not an update, apart from Grimaldus' litanies its cut an paste.

 

Pedro, Shrike, Helbrecht are the worst chapter masters since they still has the old 'reroll failed' rule. Its clear that this is not a preview or an update in any form.

[Sete]

Its something to go by until the proper rules hit.

[Brother Talarian]

Isn’t litany of +1 to wound only in shooting, though?

Or does it also apply to CC?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

 

So Initiates are 13 pts per each while tac squad is 12 pts per each?

Tactical marines are 12 because they're updated, this PDF is not an update, apart from Grimaldus' litanies its cut an paste.

 

Pedro, Shrike, Helbrecht are the worst chapter masters since they still has the old 'reroll failed' rule. Its clear that this is not a preview or an update in any form.

What's the difference with Calgar and Khorsarro? I haven't really paid attention to the supps.

 

Helbrecht is actually less appealing than Grim now. I always disliked that his buff affected models, not units.

[Acebaur]

 

 

 

So Initiates are 13 pts per each while tac squad is 12 pts per each?

Tactical marines are 12 because they're updated, this PDF is not an update, apart from Grimaldus' litanies its cut an paste.

 

Pedro, Shrike, Helbrecht are the worst chapter masters since they still has the old 'reroll failed' rule. Its clear that this is not a preview or an update in any form.

What's the difference with Calgar and Khorsarro? I haven't really paid attention to the supps.

 

Helbrecht is actually less appealing than Grim now. I always disliked that his buff affected models, not units.

It’s really not a big deal, 6" is quite big actually. See this pic for reference.

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, but imagine if the buff also affected units inches away from those, like Grimaldus' does.

 

My main gripe with it however, is the faff of having a unit with mixed strength.

[Closet Skeleton]

High Sanguinary Priest Corbulo has a +1 strength to units aura (which all HQ slot sanguinary priests have) and Grimaldus' exploding hits aura. BT buff characters have always been overpriced jokes.

 

 

What's the difference with Calgar and Khorsarro? I haven't really paid attention to the supps.

 

Khorsarro is just a captain so he's re-rollings 1s still, but the Chapter Master stratagem grants rerolls on to hit rolls while Helbrecht lets you reroll misses. Litanies of Hate from Chaplains is the same in also not specifying misses.

 

So the newer reroll bubbles let you reroll any value from stuff like power fists and thunder hammers while Helbrecht is stuck not allowing you to reroll 3s because of the "modifiers before rerolls" ruling they put in to stop captains rerolling thunder hammer 2s.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[balordazul]

 

 

 

So Initiates are 13 pts per each while tac squad is 12 pts per each?

Tactical marines are 12 because they're updated, this PDF is not an update, apart from Grimaldus' litanies its cut an paste.

 

Pedro, Shrike, Helbrecht are the worst chapter masters since they still has the old 'reroll failed' rule. Its clear that this is not a preview or an update in any form.

What's the difference with Calgar and Khorsarro? I haven't really paid attention to the supps.

 

Helbrecht is actually less appealing than Grim now. I always disliked that his buff affected models, not units.

It’s really not a big deal, 6" is quite big actually. See this pic for reference.

 

 

..... is your High Marshal not painted?!!!! 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Ah, I see. Yeah that is annoying. Another reason to take a generic 'chapter master' marshal in the interim over Helbrecht.

[Marshal Arthur]

They should upgrade that rule in the supplement. This was just a simple copy paste stop gap. Nothing to worry over. That said I do agree Helbrecht is a touch overpriced but I expect Grimaldus to be fantastic once he’s updated.

[Acebaur]

One thing to note, for now at least. Our named characters are not tied to a warlord trait. So you can choose whatever you want. 

 

 

Also, did anyone notice that we can now take a TDA ancient?!?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, probably because of the SM Heroes model, Chapter Ancient is gone too

[Marshal Reinhard]

GW is really adamant about only giving rules to models they consider themselves having kits of

 

As far as I understand it, the Chapter Ancient was moved to the Ultramarine codex because the UM Honour guard kit is described as containing one. Meanwhile if you look at the old command squad kit, it has a 'standard bearer' instead, so they don't consider it having an ancient, ergo there's no generic classic marine ancient available, so the entry was removed from the codex. Guess they view the command squad to purely be the command squad found in the index

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I get the rule on the whole, but that one doesn't make as much sense. It's irritating because although he was a bit more expensive, the 2+ was nice.

On the other hand, he didn't have any alternative wargear choices.

[Acebaur]

GW is really adamant about only giving rules to models they consider themselves having kits of

 

As far as I understand it, the Chapter Ancient was moved to the Ultramarine codex because the UM Honour guard kit is described as containing one. Meanwhile if you look at the old command squad kit, it has a 'standard bearer' instead, so they don't consider it having an ancient, ergo there's no generic classic marine ancient available, so the entry was removed from the codex. Guess they view the command squad to purely be the command squad found in the index

They have a company ancient in the book. That is who the mini from the command squad box represents.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Ah right. Clearly haven't gotten my copy yet. Point still sorta stands though. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It does, I agree. Lack of armament options aside, there is no difference in model between a company and A chapter ancient.

 

Did the UM keep Chapter Champion btw? That datasheet has gone as well. Same thing as ancient, Company has survived but not Chapter.

 

I think this kind of falls into the trend of this book as a whole, there appears generally to be much more focus on SM companies than the last book.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Think so. Don't have ready access to the UM supplement, but I want to claim I recall seeing it being said that the Chapter ancient was in it.

 

What about honour guard in the main codex? Gone too?

Edited August 17, 2019 by Reinhard

[Acebaur]

Yes honour guard, chapter champion and ancient are all in the UM book

[Medjugorje]

to be honest. Honour Guard was nice but chapter Champion and chapter ancient used to be underwhelming if you compare them to Company Champions, Company ancients... And there can be only one real Champion,... and this is the emperors Champion.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I liked the Chapter Ancient, he was durable and with the Helm had a good aura.