We're Gonna Get a Book!

[Slips]

Bolter Drill stacking with our Chapter Tactic and Infiltrators. One 6 = possibly 3 wounds.

 

Neat.

[Mandragola]

Thanks for that. I guess it shouldn’t be too long before we get to see the rest.

 

I’m curious to see how they’ll handle the IF/CF divide. Will my Crimson Fists get all the relics, stratagems and stuff or will we have our own ones? Looks like maybe some of each. Hopefully that doesn’t mean we get fewer of these for each chapter than the others do.

[Fenriwolf]

I'll avoid being a negative nancy and mention only the stuff i find somewhat interesting:

 

Stubborn Heroism. This might be the new go-to trait for a chapter master'd captain (if it works against all attacks and not only HtH) in combo with the eye of Hypnoth.It lets you go mega-buffer while still having a modicum of protection (throw in a storm shield and it's basically the old Shield Eternal)

 

Bolter Drill. Sounds good.Not sure HOW good but good. Probably hilariously overkill on siegebreaker centurions

 

Bolster Defense. Not really anything special,but still worth mentioning as an alternative to Prepared position for when you actually have the right ground at hand and something worth protecting

 

Praetorian's Wrath. Again,not a huge fan but it's an obvious sinergy with the doctrine bonus for turn 1 nukes.More push to spam high number of shot heavies

 

Eye of Hypnoth. As someone had me notice in the news thread,if it lost the limit to a few specific unit then it's almost auto-include (see Stubborn heroism) imho

Edited October 10, 2019 by Fenriwolf

[Lemondish]

Bolter Drill stacking with our Chapter Tactic and Infiltrators. One 6 = possibly 3 wounds.

 

Neat.

 

Not quite. One 6 = one wound, the rest are just additional hits that need to roll for wound again. The latest FAQ reverted the Infiltrator finding because "some people" used it to make precedent that a bolt weapon that rolls a 6 generates infinite hits. 

 

I'll avoid being a negative nancy and mention only the stuff i find somewhat interesting:

 

Stubborn Heroism. This might be the new go-to trait for a chapter master'd captain (if it works against all attacks and not only HtH) in combo with the eye of Hypnoth.It lets you go mega-buffer while still having a modicum of protection (throw in a storm shield and it's basically the old Shield Eternal)

 

Bolter Drill. Sounds good.Not sure HOW good but good. Probably hilariously overkill on siegebreaker centurions

 

Bolster Defense. Not really anything special,but still worth mentioning as an alternative to Prepared position for when you actually have the right ground at hand and something worth protecting

 

Praetorian's Wrath. Again,not a huge fan but it's an obvious sinergy with the doctrine bonus for turn 1 nukes.More push to spam high number of shot heavies

 

Eye of Hypnoth. As someone had me notice in the news thread,if it lost the limit to a few specific unit then it's almost auto-include (see Stubborn heroism) imho

 

Bolster Defense is interesting if you consider you don't really 'need' to buy a Lieutenant if you want the re-roll aura with the Eye of Hypnoth. The saved points are pretty close to the cost of an Aegis defense line to give you on demand cover all day, every day. 

 

(Yes I'm still trying to find ways to make fortifications work). 

[Slips]

 

Bolter Drill stacking with our Chapter Tactic and Infiltrators. One 6 = possibly 3 wounds.

 

Neat.

 

Not quite. One 6 = one wound, the rest are just additional hits that need to roll for wound again. The latest FAQ reverted the Infiltrator finding because "some people" used it to make precedent that a bolt weapon that rolls a 6 generates infinite hits. 

 

Hence Possibly since you generate 1 auto-wound, 1 automatic 'other' hit and the baseline hit that you rolled a 6 for. Gotta still roll to-wound twice.

[Fenriwolf]

 

Bolster Defense is interesting if you consider you don't really 'need' to buy a Lieutenant if you want the re-roll aura with the Eye of Hypnoth. The saved points are pretty close to the cost of an Aegis defense line to give you on demand cover all day, every day. 

 

 

Eh,i see it more as doubling down on the reroll wound aura to cover more space than a replacement.Lieutenants are still too good at filling HQ slots (those 12 points to the closest alternative seem always so few while not writing a list and so many when doing it..)

Edited October 10, 2019 by Fenriwolf

[Utter Polux]

So I thought a roll of 6 generates an additional 6.

 

So you’ve now rolled once. Rolled 6. Chap tac means two hits scored. Strat adds another. 3 hits scored.

 

Infiltrators is it? They auto wound on a 6.

 

All additional shots scored as a result of a 6 are deemed to have been a roll of a 6. That means each additional shot scored counts as a 6 and a auto wound.

 

So it’s correct that one roll of a 6 generates 3 auto wounds if you combine the chap tact with the strat.

[Fenriwolf]

All additional shots scored as a result of a 6 are deemed to have been a roll of a 6

 

Nope,they changed it in the last round of faqs by saying exactly the opposite of what they did in the one before.You have to roll wounds on the extras

Edited October 10, 2019 by Fenriwolf

[Lemondish]

 

 

Bolter Drill stacking with our Chapter Tactic and Infiltrators. One 6 = possibly 3 wounds.

 

Neat.

 

Not quite. One 6 = one wound, the rest are just additional hits that need to roll for wound again. The latest FAQ reverted the Infiltrator finding because "some people" used it to make precedent that a bolt weapon that rolls a 6 generates infinite hits. 

 

Hence Possibly since you generate 1 auto-wound, 1 automatic 'other' hit and the baseline hit that you rolled a 6 for. Gotta still roll to-wound twice.

 

 

Oops, I misread what you said. Sorry! 

 

Yes you're quite right. 

[Utter Polux]

As for the leaks. Not impressed all that much...really need to see the book and also see what Crims get. I’m sad that it seems as though we won’t be getting a new Pedro model.

[Slips]

 

 

 

Bolter Drill stacking with our Chapter Tactic and Infiltrators. One 6 = possibly 3 wounds.

 

Neat.

 

Not quite. One 6 = one wound, the rest are just additional hits that need to roll for wound again. The latest FAQ reverted the Infiltrator finding because "some people" used it to make precedent that a bolt weapon that rolls a 6 generates infinite hits. 

 

Hence Possibly since you generate 1 auto-wound, 1 automatic 'other' hit and the baseline hit that you rolled a 6 for. Gotta still roll to-wound twice.

 

 

Oops, I misread what you said. Sorry! 

 

Yes you're quite right. 

 

No Problem!

 

But I also made a mistake!

 

Infiltrator Bolter Shot rolls a 6 = 1 Hit, Triggers CT = 2 Hits, Triggers Bolter Drill = 3 Hits, Triggers Bolter special Rule = 3 Hits + 1 Auto-Wound.

 

So a possibility of 4 wounds per bolter shot with Infiltrators if you roll hot enough. I'm not a bit more OK with having lost the 2nd auto-wound rule that happened previously.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Slips

[Lemondish]

My plans for my force have definitely shifted a bit...some key modeling opportunities here, though. 

 

Heavy Bolter Centurions were already great in large part due to the Siegebreaker Cohort, so they're still on my list of things to build. I'm still planning out how I'm going to convert those god awful looking hurricane bolters and stumpy legs. I've seen some great work by a frater here on Black Templar Primaris Centurion conversions, so I'll shamelessly steal those ideas. The hurricane bolter will need some work...I'm thinking the LR crusader bits will have to feature somehow.

 

Stalker bolt rifle Intercessors seem particularly devastating for anti-vehicle firepower. I just wish that stalker rifle model looked sufficiently Fist-like to use it! Perhaps the magazine bits will be interchangeable with the cooler looking Infiltrator bolter scopes. Some kitbashing may be in order...once that Iniltrator kit finally makes its way to us. A pity my current group of Intercessors are all auto bolt rifle ones!

 

I'm thinking of picking up a pair of Relic Contemptor dreads with two twin heavy bolter arms and the cyclone missile launcher. T7, 12 wounds, 2+/5++/6+++, and BS2+ baseline. I don't usually like working with resin, but the models look great and the hobby opportunities intrigue me. I'm not expecting them to survive CA19 though, so I'm hesitant to pull the trigger today. Maybe the next time I visit Warhammer World I'll be unable to avoid the temptation... 

 

For cheap Fast Attack, I'm seeing folks select the tarantula. I think that's a bit of a mistake. For the same price you get a more accurate, more mobile, and more bolter filled attack bike that is just as resilient but can actually turn those weapons on whatever they want. How I'm going to unify these units into my mostly Primaris force visually will be a bit of a struggle...

 

Still doing the Eliminators since they'll be awesome. 

 

Current list idea has zero room for Tor, though. Might need to shift a bit to include him. I like the model a lot. 

[Utter Polux]

Good potential for a brigade...

 

Captain

Chaplain

Librarian

Lieutenant

 

5 Interssesors Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Stalker Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Stalker Bolt Rifles

5 Infiltrators

 

5 Aggressors

Redemptor

Redemptor

 

3 Inceptors

3 Suppressors

3 Suppressors

 

5 Hellblasters

3 Eliminators

3 Eliminators

 

Fits into 2000 points with a tiny bit of wiggle room. Very infantry based which I think is fluffy for IF

[Lemondish]

Good potential for a brigade...

 

Captain

Chaplain

Librarian

Lieutenant

 

5 Interssesors Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Stalker Bolt Rifles

5 Interssesors Stalker Bolt Rifles

5 Infiltrators

 

5 Aggressors

Redemptor

Redemptor

 

3 Inceptors

3 Suppressors

3 Suppressors

 

5 Hellblasters

3 Eliminators

3 Eliminators

 

Fits into 2000 points with a tiny bit of wiggle room. Very infantry based which I think is fluffy for IF

 

Great ideas. Though I'd probably drop the Lt. if the Eye of Hypnoth is going to be a factor for you.

 

The one I'm leaning toward is...

 

Captain (Chapter Master)

Chaplain

Phobos Librarian

 

5 Intercessors w/ Stalker

5 Intercessors w/ Stalker

5 Intercessors w/ Stalker

5 Intercessors w/ Stalker

5 Infiltrators

5 Infiltrators

 

Invictor w/ autocannon

Invictor w/ autocannon

Relic Contemptor w/ two twin HB and Cyclone

Relic Contemptor w/ two twin HB and Cyclone

 

Attack bike with HB

Attack bike with HB

Attack bike with HB

 

4 Centurion Devastators w/ HB and hurricane bolters

3 Eliminators

3 Eliminators 

 

It's a work in progress as I'm unable to easily fit Tor as a replacement for somebody, I still have 8 unspent points, and I'm not entirely certain I need the forward Infantry elements. I'm also not entirely sure I need the Contemptors to be Relics...for 22 points each they gain +1 save, +2 wounds, and a 6+++. I think that's worth it, but that's 44 points I could potentially use to get halway to another Centurion...

 

In any case, I think there's a decent amount of threat overload from the forward pressure by the Invictors and the Relic Contemptors that it's not likely the slightly smaller Centurion squads will take much fire early on. Provided Seismic Devastation is still an option, they'll still put out a ton of MWs even under strength like this. Even against T8, mass firepower from this list still manages to cause damage above and beyond what you'd expect thanks to the exploding sixes and mass 2 damage weapons. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Lemondish

[Utter Polux]

Yeah I think your list beats mine possibly down to the cents perhaps. My main concern about using more stalkers is a horde. Just though it needed some balance as D3 will be overkill late in games vs infantry.

 

I don’t really like the cents models if I’m honest. Otherwise I’d have them in my list all day long.

 

I’m loving how we can use orbital bombardment twice...this makes us very dangerous vs a castle which is very fluffy.

[Lemondish]

Yeah I think your list beats mine possibly down to the cents perhaps. My main concern about using more stalkers is a horde. Just though it needed some balance as D3 will be overkill late in games vs infantry.

 

I don’t really like the cents models if I’m honest. Otherwise I’d have them in my list all day long.

 

I’m loving how we can use orbital bombardment twice...this makes us very dangerous vs a castle which is very fluffy.

 

The stalkers aren't meant to target horde units, that's the trick ;) 

 

The anti-horde can come from the basically 21 heavy bolters, 4 hurricane bolters, assorted dakka from the cyclones and Invictor secondary weapons, the twin boltguns on the bikes, and the Infiltrators. 

 

I'm working on some conversion ideas for those Cents myself. Fitting them to Intercessor legs to improve the visuals for the legs and using the land raider crusader upgrade frame to make those hurricane bolters in the chest actually make sense and look better. Honestly, it's entirely because of Seismic Devastation that I include them. 

[War Angel]

Is orbital bombardment useful though? Half the time it won’t do anything.

[Lemondish]

Is orbital bombardment useful though? Half the time it won’t do anything.

Depends on what you're firing at. Don't use it against one unit. Use it where you can potentially hit many.

[Utter Polux]

It’s perhaps not consistently strong because it’s D6 range so if you roll low then the effect is reduced. But being able to do it twice in one turn increases the odds of causing some damage.

 

It looks as though a brigade for IF is not that hard to build so we can have access to a fair amount of CP so the 3CP that it costs isn’t changing your tactics that much.

 

I do think 3CP is too expensive. For a strat that is random range and then also only 50% of the time do you do any damage.

 

Consider that with some decent dice rolls you could cause massive damage to a castle when doing this x2 or even x3 with the floating rhino thingy..what’s it’s called my mind has gone blank!

[Fenriwolf]

I'm more partial to the Kheres contemptor mortis than the h.bolter one since it wounds Re7 (veichles) on 4+ and Re6 on 3+.

 

Still,the bolter one has its advantages (range above anything else really)

 

 

On the list side,i made one a few weeks ago with the baseline french rumor in mind and these new ones have made very little impact on it so far.It basically goes

 

CM captain on bike

Lieutenant

30 stalker intercessors (or 20x+10x boltguns still undecided)

Apotechary

5 H.B Centurions

2 squad of sniper eliminators

 

Chaplain

3 H.B attack bikes

2 squads of suppressors

 

Librarian

3 Thunderfires

 

Still not sure it can deal with enemy armor if the centurions are nuked too heavily on the first turn

Edited October 11, 2019 by Fenriwolf

[jeremy1391]

I have a sneaking suspicion that every fist Brigade is gonna have 3 heavy bolter attack bikes

[Fenriwolf]

Might even be more.They are actually good for the price.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Fenriwolf

[Lemondish]

I have a sneaking suspicion that every fist Brigade is gonna have 3 heavy bolter attack bikes

Edited October 11, 2019 by Lemondish

[Mandragola]

I think suppressors might be the best fast attack option for brigades. The bonus damage for heavy weapons doesn’t get added every time you fire a shot, it happens every time you wound and the enemy fails a save. Autocannon still do more damage than heavy bolters.

 

It looks like there are at least two ways to play Fists. An infantry horde is one option and a vehicle-heavy list might work too. I think that stormhawks might be great, deredeos and invictors could be decent and centurions are fantastic.

 

I think stalker bolt rifles remain pretty awful to be honest. I can see a case for bringing a squad or two but no more. A chaplain giving them +1 to wound could get interesting. I think I’d prefer to use my troops to fight other troops, or as infiltrators. If I’m running a lot of non-flying infantry then I think infiltrators will be essential.

 

I can see a strong case for buildings. Centurions fit just as well inside bunkers as anyone else and five of them can fire out. Or a bastion does great things for your LoS. You don’t get auras but my Crimson Fist guys will still get +1 to hit big units, I think.

[Lemondish]

I think suppressors might be the best fast attack option for brigades. The bonus damage for heavy weapons doesn’t get added every time you fire a shot, it happens every time you wound and the enemy fails a save. Autocannon still do more damage than heavy bolters.

 

It looks like there are at least two ways to play Fists. An infantry horde is one option and a vehicle-heavy list might work too. I think that stormhawks might be great, deredeos and invictors could be decent and centurions are fantastic.

 

I think stalker bolt rifles remain pretty awful to be honest. I can see a case for bringing a squad or two but no more. A chaplain giving them +1 to wound could get interesting. I think I’d prefer to use my troops to fight other troops, or as infiltrators. If I’m running a lot of non-flying infantry then I think infiltrators will be essential.

 

I can see a strong case for buildings. Centurions fit just as well inside bunkers as anyone else and five of them can fire out. Or a bastion does great things for your LoS. You don’t get auras but my Crimson Fist guys will still get +1 to hit big units, I think.

I agree that Suppressors are a fantastic choice, but we're still trying to place a brigade in 2000 points. They're probably the best choice for maximizing the damage output (and even utility) from that force org slot, I trust you there, but I'm not just making a call about what is the best fast attack choice when building a brigade - I need to fit everything into 2000 points and I feel like this is the slot I'm going to want to cut from first. Perhaps that isn't always wise, I'm sure.

 

Concerns about availability of the models themselves aside, I'm not sure I always want to commit those points when there's things I already feel I can't bring enough of in other slots.