Splog Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I reckon: Ranger Primaris, Primaris Wolf Priest model, background on new SW chapters Rule change speculation (hopes?): - rune armour upgrade for rune priests - units that should be blood claws (inceptors?) get blood claw key word (for strategems) and blood claw rules (-1 BS, headstrong, berserk) - Fire support packs get the longfang keyword and have a stratagem that allows them to be upgraded to veterans (in keeping with SW progression) Ideally a new Primaris unit for SWs and successors (new WolfGuard), and one that is SW only (perhaps using the same model kit). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5366564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I reckon: Ranger Primaris, Primaris Wolf Priest model, background on new SW chapters Rule change speculation (hopes?): - rune armour upgrade for rune priests - units that should be blood claws (inceptors?) get blood claw key word (for strategems) and blood claw rules (-1 BS, headstrong, berserk) - Fire support packs get the longfang keyword and have a stratagem that allows them to be upgraded to veterans (in keeping with SW progression) Ideally a new Primaris unit for SWs and successors (new WolfGuard), and one that is SW only (perhaps using the same model kit). +1 for this. Exactly this. I actually really really like the idea of making the primaris units we get use Space Wolf rules. One of the things about primaris that really gets under my skin is that fact that they aren’t really Space Wolves - they’re effectively just space marine allies painted in our colors. It drives me nuts. It’s like cultural appropriation. It makes me not want to buy any even as the rules for them continue to get better and better. I play Space Wolves because I love the lore and the way the lore says they fight, not because I like the color they’re painted. So don’t give me a bunch of ultramarines and tell me to paint them grey, don’t even give me a librarian with runes on it or a chaplain with a wolf helm, give me actual Space Wolf primaris. This post makes me wish I could like posts more than once. Thank you for putting into words something I’ve been feeling for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5366887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I think that existing Primaris options should largely mirror other chapters primaris, alot of the primaris that we would have are veterans and shouldn't fit in yet. I think that what we should get is our own primaris blood claw style unit, and then a wolf guard style unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5366943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 With the leak from next months white dwarf saying about Dark Angels Primaris, I wouldnt be surprised if that's the start of integrating the primaris into non codex compliant chapters. Because it explicitly states "Primaris" and not just Dark Angels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Ragnar Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I have a feeling Blood Angels and Space Wolves will drop at the same time alongside a melee Primaris unit. I'm thinking guys with power weapons and shields that give them a 4++, maybe a 5++. That would be the time and Codexes to release models like that. Still hoping they announce a surprise bike unit alongside the White Scars but it seems too late for that now. Maybe the Ravenwing from the Dark Angels will herald that release Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniWolf Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 With the leak from next months white dwarf saying about Dark Angels Primaris, I wouldnt be surprised if that's the start of integrating the primaris into non codex compliant chapters. Because it explicitly states "Primaris" and not just Dark Angels ♂ just thinking. It could be just an integration piece as you say, but also start the build up to pre Christmas releases be it codexes and/or melee units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 If they start making the Primaris unique for non codex chapters they could really take off. Even something like Wolves can take Reivers as troops or our heavies reroll ones but cost slightly more But I get the vibe they dont want to do different force org slots or datasheets Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I have a feeling Blood Angels and Space Wolves will drop at the same time alongside a melee Primaris unit. I'm thinking guys with power weapons and shields that give them a 4++, maybe a 5++. That would be the time and Codexes to release models like that. Still hoping they announce a surprise bike unit alongside the White Scars but it seems too late for that now. Maybe the Ravenwing from the Dark Angels will herald that release I would be very very surprised. I don't expect to see new primaris units, expect what was shown for atleast 1~ year save the heros. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 With the leak from next months white dwarf saying about Dark Angels Primaris, I wouldnt be surprised if that's the start of integrating the primaris into non codex compliant chapters. Because it explicitly states "Primaris" and not just Dark Angels ♂ just thinking. It could be just an integration piece as you say, but also start the build up to pre Christmas releases be it codexes and/or melee units I was thinking more along the lines of unique units. So for dark angels it could be a biker unit, or some kind of land speeder type vehicle. But maybe I'm just being a bit of an optimist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I agree with other people here about making a rule set for Space wolf unit Subtypes: every unit within subtypes gains the parent keyword Blood claws: - bloodclaws - sky claws - invictor Grey Hunter/slayers - grey hunters - intercessors - incursurs/infiltrators Long fangs: - longfangs - suppressors - helblastes Wolf gaurd: - aggressors - inceptors ( even though in lore it states that they have a lot in common with bloodclaws I think) Stalker packs -Scouts -Eliminators -Reivers we dont need space wolf "litanies" if we get it structured like this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Downside there is you have Reivers and Inceptors with BS 4+ 26 attacks on the charge for Reivers would be fun though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Yeah honestly I think I would put inceptors as wolf guard too, more like jump pack wolf guard. They are in gravis after all. Also currently scouts are their own class and I think most of the phobos would fall there. I think its weird that we have the only bs4 astartes (possible exception of black templars other troops) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald Fairmane Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Or put scouts under wolf guard, they have already served as grey hunters but prefers the wild and solitude. God the fluff should be better represented on the tabletop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 What if we made a new category for scouts, because they've always been separate Stalker packs -Scouts -Eliminators -Reivers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 We barely trust a blood claw with a full size bolter, much less a pseudo dread. The primaris and SW aren't exactly compatible with how we tank things. They don't have a blood claw vatiant, the closest thing is reivers and they have already shown to be much more level headed. Unfortunately I think it best to just throw out the idea of BC/GH/WG ranks when it comes to primaris. They all seem to be on the GH/WG mentality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splog Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Well, there is some variation in how people think Primaris units fit along the SW age/role scheme. The current codex suggests the split is likely: - Close Support / Blood Claws - Battle Line / Grey Hunters - Scout Packs - Fire Support Packs / Long Fangs - Veteran Packs The codex does not come out and say they’re Blood Claws, but Inceptors are lumped in with them, stated to be the most impetuous of the SW Primaris units (ie young untempered SW), and the only ‘old marine’ units keen to strap themselves to a high velocity personal machine and zoom like Inceptors about are Blood Claws (and the reason for strapping them to jetpacks/bikes is because they are ‘headstrong troublemakers’, and ‘youngsters’ filled with ‘reckless bloodlust’). Also worth remembering Gravis armour is not Terminator armour. There’s a lot more of it around, with individual marines in other chapters likely to have more than one set of armour. And Gravis armour is still being produced on a large scale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 GH/WS/WG keywords makes sense. Would some Primaris sequence likely stabilize out? It might be uniquely different, but close enough from outside the setting that if we as players can make sure it has fluffstification (not my word) then would that help? As in: Primaris: - Reiver - Intercessor - Aggressor - Inceptor - ? (etc.) As long as it makes sense, then it should be fine overall. Might also help GW hash things out better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 I honestly don’t care a lot about the details of how they’re classified, as long as we are provided with some lore about how the process of making Primaris has been incorporated into the process for making legacy marines. I’d like to hear that the creation of the two run parallel to each other with both Primaris and Legacy marines being chosen from the people of Fenris, some selection process where the Wolf Priests choose which recruits will become Primaris and which will become Legacy, with both taking the test of Morkai, and with both going through the same promotion process organized in packs, with the progression of Primaris mirroring the progression of Legacy in enough of a way that they feel like Space Wolves to me. If GW fails to respect the Lore of the Space Wolves and ignores the history of how Space Wolf marines are made and the impact that it has on our mentality and fighting style, I will reject GW’s lore completely and use “counts as” Primaris for my lost company. I’ll give them a chance to do it right but I don’t have high expectations as I fully expect some suit from the sales department to come up with our new lore. We’ll see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 We barely trust a blood claw with a full size bolter, much less a pseudo dread. The primaris and SW aren't exactly compatible with how we tank things. They don't have a blood claw vatiant, the closest thing is reivers and they have already shown to be much more level headed. Unfortunately I think it best to just throw out the idea of BC/GH/WG ranks when it comes to primaris. They all seem to be on the GH/WG mentality. Yeah the existing primaris skipped the blood claw stage, and campaigned with Guilliman so they wouldn't fit into those groups. So for a primaris "blood claw" unit to make sense it would have to be a new unit that lore wise is the first step for a new primaris marine. Which is actually cooler IMO because it will be unique to us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Blood Claw ballistic skill 4+ is ... *sigh* ... stupid. Our BC's should be on par with Codex Scouts in that characteristic. If there's anything they fix I hope it is that. I know it's only pistols but still. Black_Star I really like that idea. The Primaris we have gotten from Roboute are already Grey Hunters. Our unique primaris unit should be what happens when we make new Primaris Blood Claws. Maybe Reivers should be moved to Troops and given Berserk Charge. Add a point or two to their cost. And I am sure Cawl has figured out how to make our Primaris Blood Claws shoot at BS3+. Reivers to troop would make up for our scouts being Elites. Reparations. But, overall I do agree with Caldersson's assessment. We shouldn't expect that GW will adopt our structure in our next codex. Or expect a unique unit. In regards, to blood claws it is possible that all initiates start as blood claws and then cross the rubicon primaris when they're initiated as a grey hunter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5367968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 I think our next codex is ways off, so I'm expecting a primaris unit. Whether it's a blood claw equivalent, characters, or an ancient. IMO starting with dark angels there will be white dwarf updates for the big 3 that are mainly fluff but provide a boost to the base chapter tactics. Possibly they allow us to take some of the new stratagems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5368299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 I am also hoping for some WD updates but I am not going to be holding my breath. We have been left behind the curve too often recently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5368301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 With the exception of codexless units (ie assassin's) has any army gotten white dwarf rules updates altering the main army rules (not like the little chapter ones they doe where the put in a new tactic for a successor chapter)? Just wondering if there is precedent for that. Personally I think we will get the PDF Saturday and that will be what we get until a new codex. I'm holding 0 hope for anything in between with the possible exception of chapter approved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5368324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Temper your expectations and hopes brothers, they can only lead to disappointment and anger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5368336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 PDF IS OUT TODAY FOLKS!!!!! Guessing in about 2 hours time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357544-wolves-20-speculation/page/10/#findComment-5368357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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