lonewolf81 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) so ultramarines became super good....they ignore the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons army wide for free (huge for marine vehicles) and their marines always rapid fire their bolters...for free....and we havent seen,strats,powers,litanies etc....YET Yea its looking really dirty. All we can hope for now is the same loving treatment when the time comes. they teased 4 more vanila marine books, add the sigmar, warcry,killteam,necromunda,mini games etc, new non marines codices for 40k (we cant have many marine releases close to one another),also sisters confirmed for end of the year, also our current codex is new compared to others ..so our time will be 1.5 years from now,when our "new" rules would probably be outdated in terms of efficiency .... Edited August 8, 2019 by lonewolf81 Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I’m really hoping for a chapter approved update. It’s probably the best way to update the divergent chapters. Or just PDF whatever doctrine equivalent they want to give the divergent chapters. I’d be okay with a fast update to the codex too. I refrained from buying the hard copy due to the saga problem and general bad feelings towards having to wait longer for it. I know a fast codex update would bother a lot of people. Having to pay again for an expensive book wouldn’t be fun. The worst thing would be waiting 1.5+ years for an updated codex. Which may happen. We waited that long in 8th for a codex that was clearly written a year plus earlier but withheld due to release schedule. We got shafted hard by that wait. We got shafted hard by the actual codex being terrible. Now these updates to C:SM that don't apply to SW is another shaft. We were already tied with GK as the worst army in 8th edition. The power gap is now even wider between C:SM and the non codex astartes. Unless our doctrine equivalents come out with Russ returning with a 40k model there's no justification for yet another shafting. Don't make me put a "shaft" jar in the Fang for you... LOL I was thinking of a Newsradio episode where the radio station owner gives one person a big bonus, everyone else but one gets the normal bonus and then one person gets no bonus at all aka THE SHAFT. That's where SW have been at for all of 8th. so ultramarines became super good....they ignore the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons army wide for free (huge for marine vehicles) and their marines always rapid fire their bolters...for free....and we havent seen,strats,powers,litanies etc....YET Yea its looking really dirty. All we can hope for now is the same loving treatment when the time comes. they teased 4 more vanila marine books, add the sigmar, warcry,killteam,necromunda,mini games etc, new non marines codices for 40k (we cant have many marine releases close to one another),also sisters confirmed for end of the year, also our current codex is new compared to others ..so our time will be 1.5 years from now,when our "new" rules would probably be outdated in terms of efficiency .... This is what I'm expecting. We won't be looked at again before 9th edition is rolled out. Chapter Approved is our only chance of anything being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 There's really nothing to help this is there? GW just does as it wants, and when the Wolves finally get their book it's going to just flat out suck. I guess this, "I _DEMAND_ (x)" attitude from some Wolves players is getting us all the shaft. And yes, some demand things; I don't see a reason to, and I really don't like that this is the apparent response. All the more reason for me to stop demanding things from GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf81 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 ultra marine aggressors always fire twice with ap-1 shots without using CPs or other buffs ...super op.... :) TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 ultra marine aggressors always fire twice with ap-1 shots without using CPs or other buffs ...super op.... :) Aggressor spam is going to be so amazing with Primarch aura in the middle of that moving bubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 We're going to have to spam minus ones to hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Let's see what the faq does to marine 2.0 o expect sale major nerfs quick ala gsc deployment nerfed a month after launch ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 To move to a more constructive mindset here's some things i think could be neat for our "not-doctrines". Just a list, not suggesting all would apply. Stalk: Reroll Adv. or +M Reserves come in at -3" (i've wanted this forever) Slay: Fight phase exploding 6's -Ld when near Space Wolves Rout: -Ld when near Space Wolves disadvantages roll off to fall back from combat "a la witches" (i've wanted this forever and a half) + to sweeping adv Its hard to come up with stuff that doesn't step on the toes of wulfen or other stuff. What other cool stuff would be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) My guess would be something that would work in stages like the doctrines already out. So we'd end up in T3 with some kind of CC buff. The first two turns could help Long Fangs or Vehicles and then the second turn one could be something like you can advance and charge or when you advance treat all weapons as Assault. It keeps to the theme we've seen in the doctrines for C:SM for how the battles develop on the table. Initial shooting, then movement then finally units locked in combat across the board. Edited August 8, 2019 by Bulwyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I had a thought on this. What if this is gw's way of fixing armies that are low command point, low command point regeneration? I think I like it TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I had a thought on this. What if this is gw's way of fixing armies that are low command point, low command point regeneration? I think I like it Better than a stratagem Suck it vect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) No close combat til turn 3 wouldnt be good for us in the rules or lore wise Move/hunt/stalk Kill Bloodlust (charge bonuses) or sagaful buffs to characters Actually charge bonuses as secone doctrine would be fun Edited August 8, 2019 by Dark Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rums Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) Well GW is going to learn the hard way that just like the wolves themselves, space wolf players don't adhere to how they're told to play. I think our codex is still flexible as far as play is concerned, even without everyone else's bells and whistles. Blood claw units definitely shine this edition, all 3 of them, and the return of +1 A 9n the charge, just makes everything better for us, we can rapid fire and charge the same turn now ( unless I read something wrong) and that's how we shine now. We've been the jack of all trades but we, in the past, had to choose to do one or the other. Edited August 8, 2019 by Rums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I have an idea. Rather than sulk, why not try to help my fellow Wolves players hash out a force that takes advantage of this new set of developments? 2,000 Points, go. BC's look to be a new Mandatory unit, or at least, the big three should be GH's, BC's, IC's (Intercessors.) 9 or 10 GH's, CSw's, 2 PG's, WGPL, Rhino? 14 BC's, WGPL, WP, LRC / Stormwolf 10 IC's, BR's, CSw on ICPL, rear field camp pack? 8 Wulfen, Stormwolf, LRC, paired to BC's LRC / Stormwolf, for BC's LRC / Stormwolf, for Wulfen LF's, HW to taste, 4 or 5 HW's in pack (5 HW's is really nice, and a decent way to provide heavy fire support), Razorback? Yes, this is chewing up some points, but with the nice mobility Wolves get from some pretty decently solid vehicles, the fun part is going to be to press the attack. Think up a decent 2K list, and let's see what we can squeeze both into and out of it! Triszin 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) I would say focus on mid range to melee Army wide rules True grit: any "bolt weapon" is treated as pistol 2 when within x" Tip of the spear/insane bravado: charge same turn you disembark, reroll charges +2". Murder make: bolt weapons within 12" add 1 to hit, additionally any bolt weapons or melee weapons within 6" add 1 to wound. _-------- To Blackstones idea, I would like to see a slight point drop on the stormwolf/fang. 80pts for the multi melta is steep. Edited August 8, 2019 by Triszin Sea-People 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rums Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) I still think we have a better numbers game compared to other marines, it just seems to me wolves benefit more from full squad sizes, that being said I haven't put my list up against any one in 8th so it's just speculation Edited August 8, 2019 by Rums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Bjorn, HPC Primaris Battle Leader, PA & BC GH's x 9, WGPL w/ SS/CSw, 2 PG's, GHPL w/ PF BC's x 12, BCPL w/ PF, WGPL w/ SS/CSw IC's x 10, ICPL w/ CSw, 10 BR's Dread, HPC, DCCW w/ SB Dread, HPC, DCCW w/ SB LF's x 6, 5 PC's Rhino Razorback, THB --- RP, JP, PH, RA, Warlord, Murderous Hurricane WP, PF WGBL Wulfen x 8, 2 x FGA, 5 x TH/SS, 1 x WPL 1,999 / 2,000 Points Just a quick throw together. If anyone can do better, by all means, please do so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 2nd list. Battalion WGBL, FS WP, PF BC's x 12, BCPL w/ PF, WGPL w/ SS/CSw GH's x 8, GHPL w/ PF, WGPL w/ SS/CSw IC's x 9, ICPL w/ CSw, 10 BR's Wulfen x 7, 2 x FGA, 5 x TH/SS, WPL w/ Claws WS x 5, SR's, WSPL w/ SR LRC LRC Rhino Repulsor w/ THB, HOGC, OGC, 2 x SB's, IIHS, 2 x FGL's Edited August 8, 2019 by Karack Blackstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 3rd list, stopping after this one. WGBL WP, PP BC's x 14, BCPL w/ PF, WGPL w/ SS/CSw BC's x 14, BCPL w/ PF, WGPL w/ SS/CSw BC's x 14, BCPL w/ PF, WGPL w/ SS/CSw GH's x 8, GHPL w/ PF, 2 PG's, WGPL, SS/CSw GH's x 8, GHPL w/ PF, 2 PG's, WGPL, SS/CSw IC's x 9, ICPL w/ CSw, 10 BR's Wulfen x 7, 2 x FGA, 5 x TH/SS, WPL w/ Claws LF's x 6, 5 PC's LF's x 6, 5 PC's Edit: All 3 lists are 2K Pts. 2nd and 3rd list were edited to list the Bolt Rifles for the Intercessor packs. Edited August 8, 2019 by Karack Blackstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rums Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I think karak's 3rd list is what I'm trying to refer to "boys over toys" idea, GH squads were always good but now blood claws have caught up, and for what I feel is cheap, our troops are our suit, everything else is fluff, flavor, and support. I think using blood claws, grey hunters and our new primaris units gives us a lot to work with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Karak I think you're right in your approach in the third list. Except missile launchers over plasma cannons all day. That's purely my preference but I know some of you on here are Team PC. And maybe a Rune Priest to add durability. We need durability. What do you guys think our combat doctrine equivalent could be? In combat a to hit roll of an unmodified 6 generates an extra hit/attack. Something like this is likely as we are the faction they like to boost our hitting ability. In combat a to wound roll of an unmodified 6 generates an extra wound using the damage of the weapon. Something like this may be too powerful. But it actually may be equivalent to the effect of AP rending the codex doctrine is giving. In combat a to wound roll of an unmodified 6 generates 1 mortal wound. Probably too strong. What do you guys think a potential chapter trait boost would look like? I am hoping for something that increases durability but we will probably trend like White Scars and be all offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I would love doctrines that focus on assaulting I'd love an overwatch mechanic that limits casualties to 1 model. kind of like morale management but for charging...the guy in the lead eats all the fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 I would love doctrines that focus on assaulting I'd love an overwatch mechanic that limits casualties to 1 model. kind of like morale management but for charging...the guy in the lead eats all the fire My only thing with that is most of my overwatch woes are from my dreads assaulting and eating a melta equivalent. Happens way more than I would have thought possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I had a thought on this. What if this is gw's way of fixing armies that are low command point, low command point regeneration? I think I like it This would actually make alot of sense. I can see it lore wise and game wise being good. Lore wise better trained troops need less tactical oversight and while not all starts are pure tactics they are sort of a leadership thing. Where as game wise there is less need to focus on CP generation with things like loyal 32 because so many buffs are in place. Time will tell if this is the plan but I think the next guard and the next grey knights releases will show if that's their plan. Triszin and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) If I were going to make doctrines for wolves it would be. Stalk - models with this rule don't suffer a penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons and when a model with this rule advances treat a roll of a 1 or 2 as a 3. Hunt - when a model with this rule charges you may re-roll one dice. If a model with with this rule suffers a wound during overwatch roll a d6 on a 5 or 6 ignore it. Kill - if an enemy unit tries to fall back from a unit with this ability roll a d6 on 4+ they stay locked in. Ranged attacks for models with this rule that are made within 12" gain an additional ap -1 Edited August 9, 2019 by Black_Star Wolf Guard Dan, Rune Priest Jbickb and Indefragable 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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