Ultramarines Supplement

[Toxichobbit]

The Doctrine system is confirmed in one of the WHQ articles. So far all we know is that there are three Combat Doctrines and they're in the Marine Codex, not one of the Supplements. You get the cards for them in the Marine Datacards.

[Joukernaut]

And they look good and fun.

[Captain Idaho]

Doctrines look good and I bet we can utilise them more than Chapters after the Supplement hits ;)

[Joukernaut]

I think the doctrines will help us to create new viable ways of playing marines instead of castling up. I can truly see a mechanized list that moves up and charges in becoming viable, especially with that tasty 4++ on the impulsor. There's just so many melee attacks on veteran intercessors now, potentially with -1 AP, you just can't forgo charging them in anymore. And when we play this way our chapter tactic will become more useful.

[Joukernaut]

On the other side of the spectrum I can see people building castles again, with cheap low AP weapons, exploiting the devastator doctrine for most of the battle before grabbing some objectives with the new impulsor. If this thing moves twelve, you can then disembark three, move six and advance D6 for a 21+D6 inch objective grab.

[Captain Idaho]

News from the front! Here

 

From what we read here, our units that often suffer from the penalty to movement when firing heavy weapons such as the Redeemer and Terminators, will often get to ignore it!

 

That is big. Terminators can be effective again woo! (Hopefully there are changes to their profiles, at least an extra wound but I doubt it)

 

The curious part is the Special Issue wargear - so we get those instead of Relics on the model, but unlimited in the army?

 

Lastly, my Honour Guard might be back. Pleass GW tell me that my uber unit is back.

[Subtleknife]

If the new transport is under 100 pts and can carry 3 aggressor it could be very tasty at clearing any horde. Roughly 57 shots, not counting the transports guns, if the right tactical doctrine is used. All for around 200pts too

[Toxichobbit]

So if I'm reading this right, we have a Warlord Trait that allows us to use Tactical Doctrine on anything? My first thought is double dipping with heavy bolter/hurricane bolter Centurions. But I'm sure there's better uses.

 

I like Telepathic Assault - it makes use of our Chapter Tactic :D I'm thinking Reavers, Angel of Death warlord trait (if it still exists) plust Telepathic Assault. That's a -2 to the targets Ld and +3 to the roll, so a 5 point swing in our favour. That could cause a good chunk of mortal wounds. Way more powerful if you use allies - Primaris Psyker with Terrify for example.

 

I'm glad the Santic Halo is still in. I use that one a lot. Sunwrath Pistol is cool, but I want to know how special issue wargear works. I hope we get a plasma blaster, but somehow I doubt it.

 

Master of Presciencse is still a thing, which I'm sure people will be happy about.

 

My only concern is that Tactical Doctrine is so good for Ultramarines, that we'll switch to it asap every game and never look back. That in turn limits army building, as we'll always be better taking more rapid fire & assault weapons over melee (not so worried about heavy weapons as we'll get 1 turn out of the -1AP, they need it less, they're kind of essential for many builds and without them being able to fire as if you stayed still doesn't matter). I've always liked that Ultramarines were balanced, using melee, long range and mid-field in conjunction to win rather than specialising like other Chapters. But this seems to put us firmly in the ranged camp. It just doesn't feel very Ultramarine to be pigeon holed strongly encouraged to build heavily in one direction all the time.

 

That said - did we just get the option to move and fire c-beam cannons?

[derLumpi]

I hear you Cpt Idaho. I would love the return of the old honour guard. :)

[jonjacob]

Special issue wargear? Axes of ultramar?

 

Oh and sicarius is 2nd company captain again?

 

Tactical doctrine is where it's at for us and scions of guilliman is great. Shame combi weapons still will be at -1 to hit. No matter.

 

Maybe ultramarines can be competitive with out guilliman now. Is is shaping up to be great release.

[Captain Idaho]

Ha we might just have got an option to move and fire those weapons (even if Index).

 

Toxichobbit - sorry I think you've got the rules for Telepathic Assault slightly off. The Lds aren't compared, though negative modifiers are still going to be effective.

 

Knights have what, Ld8 or 9? With some negatives down to even just 6 or 7, plus a timely reroll if we roll well, we can cause some decent damage.

 

Though I reckon that is the least of the decent powers. Sure there will be some sick ones.

 

Ooo there might be one that reduces the enemies Ld... that could combo well.

[Ishagu]

My flamer Aggressors will now disembark from a transport and hit a unit with 100 Ap-1 auto hits.

 

Intercessors are running around, always rapid firing with ap-2 bolters.

 

Tiggy is Eldrad. Re rolls to cast AND +1 to cast and deny. Fantabulous.

 

Cherry on top is that it applies to vehicles, so heavy weapons on Redemptors now have no penalty to hit, as an example.

[jonjacob]

Is scion guilliman a warlord trait?

[Toxichobbit]

Yeah, re-reading you're right, the Librarian's Ld doesn't matter. I guess I was just eager for something to make more use of our Chapter Tactic.

 

On the plus side, re-reading it I noticed that they mentioned vehicles getting the benefit of Scions of Guilliman, which in turn means they get the benfit of Combat Doctrines. Nice to have that confirmed.

 

Is scion guilliman a warlord trait?

 

Don't think so. Looks more like an army wide ability.

[jonjacob]

So then what is the point of the following?

 

"Master of Strategy, for example, enables an accompanying unit to take advantage of the Tactical Doctrine (which, as we’ve seen above, is even better for purging bad guys)."

 

Imperial Soup related?

[robofish7591]

Things are looking good for for my terminators! Switch to tactical doctrine when the deepstrike, pop Tactical Expertise and shred whatever they target with ap -1/-2 storm bolter fire... and as a bonus, the assault cannons won't have a penalty for moving!

 

 

So then what is the point of the following?

"Master of Strategy, for example, enables an accompanying unit to take advantage of the Tactical Doctrine (which, as we’ve seen above, is even better for purging bad guys)."

Imperial Soup related?

 

Sounds to me like the warlord will apply the benefits of the tactical doctrine to a nearby unit regardless of which doctrine is in effect for the army.

[Runefyre]

I'm super stoked for my leviathan effectively gaining relentless with the tactical doctrine, it will really help when falling back and shooting. Other than that not much else will change for my victrix guard army, as it is mostly melee orientated.

 

Very excited for the indomitus discipline as well.

[Captain Idaho]

This supplement might see me take more Troops choices dare I say it.

[Captain Idaho]

In addition to what I've said above (as well as gushing over the Codex like a school girl meeting a Korean pop star) I'm thinking that Ultramarines might benefit from several transports delivering our units into a first strike situation.

 

What I mean by this is we need to establish a way of delivering units into combat to take advantage of our killing power before the enemy can retaliate. Target saturation can work here but this puzzle is really fun to work on.

[Toxichobbit]

In addition to what I've said above (as well as gushing over the Codex like a school girl meeting a Korean pop star) I'm thinking that Ultramarines might benefit from several transports delivering our units into a first strike situation.

 

What I mean by this is we need to establish a way of delivering units into combat to take advantage of our killing power before the enemy can retaliate. Target saturation can work here but this puzzle is really fun to work on.

 

The Impulsor might be quite good for that. We're probably going ranged rather than melee, so not being able to charge isn't an issue. It has the 4+ invulnerable to help it stay alive and because of the way infantry disembark it can move up first turn into LOS blocking terrain, then move again to release the troops.

 

For classic Marines, it feels like a job for Drop Pods. Never thought I'd say that this edition.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes! Here's to hoping GW lowers the points of Drop Pods to match.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Fantabulous :D

[Subtleknife]

I do hope GW allows primaris to use drop pods and lowers the points cost for pods

[Joukernaut]

I wouldn’t fancy your chances.

They will probably create a specific “primaris drop pod” and ask a higher price for it.

[MrZakalwe]

Maybe ultramarines can be competitive with out guilliman now. Is is shaping up to be great release.

 

Unless be becomes less of a powerful force multiplier everything will still need to be balanced with him in mind- let's hope he's significantly changed or else marines are going to have to get *really* expensive after the first balance pass and that will leave the army with a serious glass jaw.