Ultramarines Supplement

[Captain Idaho]

Terrible review by Ash; he rushed through everything and assumed Guilliman hadn't even changed etc. Sometimes I couldn't even understand what he was mumbling about the rules. It's like he didn't care.

 

However, Ultramarine Strategums look amazing. There's one which gives a Relic to a Sergeant... Centurions with Mastercrafted Hurricane Bolters, anyone?

 

Or the one which allows 1 model in a unit to automatically hit?

 

I'll just let that sink in for a moment, folks...

[Ishagu]

Ash is incredibly annoying. I can't stand the man.

 

He's also fallen out with many in the community and honestly it's likely all his fault.

[Captain Idaho]

Aha well we will gloss over that and gush over the new rules.

 

I'm quite excited about Twin Lascannon auto hitting Eldar Flyers.

 

Or 12 Mastercrafted Hurricane Bolters shots.

 

The Relic with Rapid Fire 4 might not sound great until you remember the Tactical Doctrine :)

[Prot]

Winters SEO has the review up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E25y0e9mldw

 

- Auto Bolt rifles confirmed at Assault 3

 

- Reivers 16 points

- many vigilus stratagems are in the book. Intercessor veterans 1 CP for 5 dudes, 2 CP for more, +1 attack +1 Ld

 

 

 

- Autobolt rifles with Scions of Guilliman will be a lot of fun to try. I'm glad they kept some extra synergy with the Troops/Tactics and Ultramarines. Feels flavourful.

 

- I've been saying Reivers needed to go down. This combined with Tactical Doctrine and Shock Assault makes them truly viable (did a test game with these rules last night and it felt bettter, not OP but decent.)

 

- The Vigilus Detachment costs seem CP expensive. Is there still a cost of entry into the Indomitus Crusaders detachment? (1CP?) If so that makes my 10 Man Intercessor trick cost about 5 CP for one turn of Rapid Fire.  Ouch.

 

 

 

 

Gravis armor gives another wound.

Woah.

 

So Inceptors, Aggressors have 3 wounds now?! Still T5?

Looks like it, yes. Still T5 as well

 

 

 

 

- This Gravis change feels appropriate. I tried getting Aggressors to work quite a bit, this makes things more tempting, but I am disheartened that they won't fit in an Impulsor! 

-The additional question I have is with Scions of Guilliman. Do disembarking Aggressors get to double shoot?

 

- DId I miss the cost of the Impulsor?

 

- Ironlcally in my test game last night I kept saying I want to bring my Grav Devs back in Pods (I was playing these at the onset of 8th). It just seemed more valid with Combat Doctrines. Now with the changes to pods? Wow... that might be one of the biggest boosts to 'first born' . Combined with Doctrines.....!

 

- Is there a change to Might of Heroes. I'm seeing some stuff indicating a squad can be affected??

 

- New Strategem "Transhuman Physiology" for 1 CP sounds really solid for large marine squads, and even Termies get that chance to be extra survivable against Knights, etc. 

 

- I'm kind of bummed about Guilliman for tournie play, but quite happy about it for regular play (as I almost never took him for every day games.)

 

- I'm also a little surprised/disappointed in the Repulsor point boost. Not sure this was necessary but it does make the Landraider a little more tempting on top of its 2+ save.

 

- Null Zone went down to WC 7. "ENEMY UNITS" within 6". I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, but I think this is big. Tiggy will be casting this much more often for me on a 6+.

[Captain Idaho]

A few thoughts on what you mentioned Prot:

 

- I'm not surprised Repulsors and their sister tanks went up in points. The sheer amount of firepower that got boosted by the Devastator and Tactical Doctrine, on a T8 platform, is phenomenal.

 

Still, I don't think it was really needed. *shrugs*

 

- Yes I'm all up for Devastators with Grav Cannons again. Oh my.

 

- I think Might of Heroes was mis played by Tabletop Tactics but that's from a friend who watched a Codex review.

[Prot]

Yea, Table Top tactics is where I saw that which would be weird for them to misplay it since Lawrence (heck any marine player) has been stuck using it for 8th in it's single target form.

 

I am surprised at Repulsors still. I didn't find a huge change in them in my game last night. Don't get me wrong, it was still an improvement but the Executioner doesn't really need it, and the Repulsor is the only transport option (That I know of) for Gravis Armour units. So even though Aggressors got better, they still really need transports badly to be truly effective and it's the only option.

 

I think the Doctrine actions that I experienced last night adds a very notable effect to large swaths of infantry. IE: my 9 Reivers shooting into Orks was a very notable change.

 

If I were to guess about Repulsor boosts... I'm going to guess GW looked at recent North American (I don't know about the UK) tournament play where tons of lists are floating around with multitudes of them. They seem to react to that more than their own playtesting. (I remember when a GW employee got clocked by Nick Nanivati's Poxwalker/Cultists list and almost immediately both units were nerfed.)

 

And Drop Pods though... I'm still stunned. I thought they were dead to the game. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m glad to see the slight point reduction for Reivers... I love these models and have always wanted them to do some work. I will still be playing infantry heavy lists and shouid be able to work them now.

 

@ Captain Idaho - the new batrep on TTT demonstrates how old Marines have been made much more viable now. :)

[Toxichobbit]

- The Vigilus Detachment costs seem CP expensive. Is there still a cost of entry into the Indomitus Crusaders detachment? (1CP?) If so that makes my 10 Man Intercessor trick cost about 5 CP for one turn of Rapid Fire.  Ouch.

Boltstorm, Rapid Fire and Target Sighted are no longer connected to the Indomitus Crusaders or Veteran Intercessors keywords. Now the only requirement is the Intercessors keyword. So they can be played on any Intercessor Squad. The Veteran Intercessors stratagem is just a stratagem to make Intercessors into Veterans, so +1 A & Ld. 

 

- DId I miss the cost of the Impulsor?

79 for the basic loadout (2 storm bolters). Then the cost of whatever else you decide to add on.

 

- Is there a change to Might of Heroes. I'm seeing some stuff indicating a squad can be affected??

No change, it still only affects one model. The confusion is likely because the entry is expanded to cover the rules for what happens if an attack hits a unit with multiple different Toughness characteristics (so if you wanted to say, cast Might of Heroes on a Sergeant for example).

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Are there any rules for Tyrannic War Veterans now ?

[Runefyre]

Are there any rules for Tyrannic War Veterans now ?

Yup, they're sternguard vets who can re-roll hit and wound rolls against Tyranids, and they come in 4 man base squad size. Nothing special but they're fluffy and the models are cool.

[jonjacob]

 

Are there any rules for Tyrannic War Veterans now ?

Yup, they're sternguard vets who can re-roll hit and wound rolls against Tyranids, and they come in 4 man base squad size. Nothing special but they're fluffy and the models are cool.

 

They also have three attacks each from what i can remember

[Runefyre]

 

 

Are there any rules for Tyrannic War Veterans now ?

Yup, they're sternguard vets who can re-roll hit and wound rolls against Tyranids, and they come in 4 man base squad size. Nothing special but they're fluffy and the models are cool.

 

They also have three attacks each from what i can remember

 

From what I can see in the reviews, I think they just got the basic 2A on vets, 3A on the sergeant. But the reviews are pretty blurry so it's kinda hard to make it out.

[jonjacob]

I'm really confused by the tactical expertise stratagem when the tactical doc is active.

The combat doctrines paragraph states "this bonus is not culamtive with any other rules that improve the Armour penertation characteristic of a weapon."

So what the point, it used for when we are not battle forged? so not -2ap bolters?

[Ishagu]

I'm really confused by the tactical expertise stratagem when the tactical doc is active.

 

The combat doctrines paragraph states "this bonus is not culamtive with any other rules that improve the Armour penertation characteristic of a weapon."

 

So what the point, it used for when we are not battle forged? so not -2ap bolters?

It means you can't stack it with multiple other rules to get -4Ap bolters as an example.

[jonjacob]

 

I'm really confused by the tactical expertise stratagem when the tactical doc is active.

 

The combat doctrines paragraph states "this bonus is not cumulative with any other rules that improve the Armour penetration characteristic of a weapon."

 

So what the point, it used for when we are not battle forged? so not -2ap bolters?

It means you can't stack it with multiple other rules to get -4Ap bolters as an example.

 

So what it actual point of tactical expertise stratagem? either i'm being really silly and can see the point or this could be really big waste of stratagem

[Ishagu]

You get an extra AP and you get the Ultras benefits such as not counting as moving.

[Prot]

Is the Strategem not army wide? This would give AP bonuses to weapons not covered by your current doctrine.

 

Considering what I’m reading from the new strats I’m nit sure that one tops my list. My test games have been taking full advantage of the Scions of Guilliman and I feel like that where the heart of the army list is moving towards. Once I get my hands on the full codex I think I may be drop losing Sternguard in or resurrecting my dev squads.

[Joukernaut]

With everything I've seen I think there's a very good point to be made for dropping in stern guard and/or grav devs turn one. You would always have the flexibility to reserve them for later turns, but if you can take out some key units it can be clutch. If you are willing to pop a lot of stratagems it can and will be truly devastating. And from what I understand you can get one CP per turn back with a spell and possibly one with the ultramarine specific warlord trait. Ultramarines could very well be keeping their CP fuel up and running for several turns.

[CCE1981]

I can’t wait to make AutoBoltstorm Gauntlets Master-Crafted!

[jonjacob]

Is the Strategem not army wide? This would give AP bonuses to weapons not covered by your current doctrine.

The tactical expertise stratagem is army wide and effects rapid fire and and assault weapon on a unmodified wound roll of 6, if the tactical doctrine is in use. Stratagem is effectively useless because it does not stack.

 

Are stratagems Rules?

[Captain Idaho]

I am interested to know if we can use the CP power and it doesn't count as the limit in the Battle Round for CP regeneration etc?

[Kallas]

I am interested to know if we can use the CP power and it doesn't count as the limit in the Battle Round for CP regeneration etc?

Most CP gain abilities count towards the Tactical Restraint Matched Play rule, including the Obscuration Power Mind Raid. I fully expect Scryer's Gaze to count too.

 

It's still basically a "free" CP each turn, and means you could take a different Warlord Trait.

[derLumpi]

Any updates on the fluff?

[Prot]

 

I am interested to know if we can use the CP power and it doesn't count as the limit in the Battle Round for CP regeneration etc?

Most CP gain abilities count towards the Tactical Restraint Matched Play rule, including the Obscuration Power Mind Raid. I fully expect Scryer's Gaze to count too.

 

It's still basically a "free" CP each turn, and means you could take a different Warlord Trait.

 

 

Interesting. THat's how I played that power when Vanguard came out and I just never really fell in love with it since most the other Warlord Traits never stuck with me, I just kept using Adept of the Codex since I assumed it did not stack.

 

Any updates on the fluff?

 

I am curious about this too. In the Dark Imperium background books it talks about Guilliman declaring an end to the Indomitus Crusade (which is an internal reclamation project of Imperium space) But the Indomitus appears to be back on.... Either that or we are stuck/staying within that timeline? 

 

It's probably worth a new thread though since this one will be rules based, but I think it's going to be interesting to see where the story goes and IF it's true there's going to be another campaign which may tie in.

 

+++++++++++++++++++

 

Right now I'm disappointed in only 3 basic things I'm hearing. 1. Guilliman not getting chapter tactics/can't really use them as a Super Heavy Detachment? This is just flat out wrong. I don't care if he doesn't need them to be functional. It's purely incorrect from an aesthetic standpoint. 2. The base cost of the new transport. This is without any of the addons? So no Orbital Strike/4++ invuln? 3. I an disappointed that the new transport can't hold Gravis? But Gravis can't deepstrike, so we're stuck with plopping that stuff in Repulsors which each went up too much imo. (15 points maybe, but 30?) 

 

I had a list running with 3 Repulsors. I think their point hike makes Landraiders even more attractive (LR's are good units with Master of Prescience on them.) And now Drop Pods became relevant, further extending the life of "First Born". I think that's good.

 

What I want to do is get my flamer Aggresors back in the game. I think they could be a staple in Ultra lists firing twice, with increased AP using the Tactical Doctrine with Scions of Guilliman. Shock Assault makes them a bit more credible when they get there, even with -1 to hit fists getting a 'better' re-roll from Calgar/Guilliman.

 

That bad news to all of this is I want to use more infantry... and these guys HAVE to be in a Repulsor (an opponent would have to be crazy to let you walk them up the field in today's meta of massive screens, cultists, Tzaangors, Nurgle, etc.)

 

Then again the use I got out of the improved Intercessors with Vet status + rapid fire. Then the assault for mop up was the type of fun and potency from Intercessors I never experienced before.

 

Finally another add in for me will be a squad of new Intercessors with different weapons. I'd like to take Scouts out of my troop rotation, but this might be too much to ask. Scouts are still very, very good. I'm just tempted by Damage 2 Sniper Intercessors which are great against all sorts of tough targets... I face GSC Aberrants, FNP Nurgle screens, etc. 

 

That autobolt rifle could be good too with the new rules.

[Toxichobbit]

The Stalkers won't help you much against Aberrants. they'll reduce the damage back to 1. It does let the Aberrants use their special rule though, which is nice for the GSC player I guess. You're better off with weight of fire to take them down and putting the high quality Stalker shots elsewhere.

 

Guilliman not getting the Chapter Tactic in a Super Heavy detachment is pants on head idiotic. Especially as he's the only LoW  for Ultramarines outside of FW. And as all the FW LoW have Steel Behemoth or Fly, they already have the ability to shoot when falling back, without any pentalty no less. So GW, what exactly have you accomplished other than making Guilliman look like a tool? Oh yeah, stopped the clearly unbalanced +1 Ld on super heavy tanks....

 

I know it's just a blanket rule because they didn't want anyone using the ludicrously costed and not particularly good FW LoWs with any Chapter Tactics, but they make rules exceptions all the time so why not for the UM Chapter Tactic.

 

That is the base cost without upgrades. It's hard to make out the exact points values on YouTube, but the Ironhail Skytalon Array is in the single digits while the other three options are all somewhere between 10 & 19 points.