BA Codex 0.2 Speculation/Discussion

[pandion40]

Andronichos An odd post that seems a little like trollIng since ishagu just asked a very similar question on this page but I think your speculation is wrong, I believe the 4 supplements will be

 

Imperial Fists

Iron Hands

Salamanders

Raven Guard

 

In other words the rest of the first founding with no supplement or codex of their own. Black tempers and Crimson Fists will probably be covered in the Imperial Fists supplement. I consider your list possible but unlikely and as to what I think I don’t want a Blood Angels supplement, I want a full codex.

[Ishagu]

I imagine the supplements will be just for the codex chapters.

 

The Master codex idea is better in my opinion. Didn't GW say that all the new and existing generic units in the codex will be available to all chapters? That means you'll have to buy this new codex if you want to run Impulsors and Incursors?

 

And then 8 months down the line there will be some new 210 page Blood Angels book?

[Jolemai]

GW was referring to the new wave of Primaris stuff, all of which will also be available via PDF.

 

Anything else will likely be an errata for us to use in the interim.

[Xerxus]

I guess more like 3 months.

[Panzer]

 

Hi there,

 

We know from Warhammer-Community what chapter tactics are for :

Ultramarines (who get a supplement)

White Scars (who get a supplement)

Crimson Fists

Black Templars

Imperial Fists

Raven guard 

Salamanders

Iron Hands

These last 6 chapters usually do not get a proper codex (sorry Black Templars).

 

We know that there are 6 supplements supposed to be released:

1.Ultramarines - revealed

2.White Scars - revealed

Leaving 4 slots to fill, for which the 6 aforementioned chapters are too numerous. So for the 4 remaining releases what about:

3.Dark Angels (teased for the next WD)

4.Space Wolves

5.Blood Angels 

6.Death Watch

 

and left over crying : Grey Knights who do not use Primaris Units and are thus not concerned. 

 

 

And till our release we get the new units as a PDF.

 

What do you think of this?

 

 

I think we can rule that possibility out for multiple reasons.

Firstly, GW makes it pretty clear that BA, DA, SW, DW and GK are separate from the vanilla Codex, unlike the other vanilla chapters. Secondly the other vanilla chapters are all missing their chapter specific stuff and GW told us that they'll get those via PDF soon just as we get Shock Assault, the new Primaris stuff and points changes via PDF soon.

[Andronichos]

Andronichos An odd post that seems a little like trollIng since ishagu just asked a very similar question on this page but I think your speculation is wrong, I believe the 4 supplements will be

 

Imperial Fists

Iron Hands

Salamanders

Raven Guard

 

In other words the rest of the first founding with no supplement or codex of their own. Black tempers and Crimson Fists will probably be covered in the Imperial Fists supplement. I consider your list possible but unlikely and as to what I think I don’t want a Blood Angels supplement, I want a full codex.

 

No trolling intended, it was indeed a speculation. It is true that the wording of how the keyword <chapter> is replaced in the new codex points towards an exclusion of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Legion of the Damned and Space Wolves. And also Iron Hands seem to be getting Primaris models, so they would likely be included.

Too bad. 

[Blindhamster]

Out of curiosity, would you guys be happy with a supplement book being bolted on to the standard space marine codex?

 

The supplements we've seen so far have been very good for lore, themed traits, powers, etc

 

I'd be fine with a Supplement.

 

so, our current unique stuff is...

 

• a bunch of characters
• sanguinary ancient
• sanguinary priest
• sanguinary guard
• furioso
• librarian dread
• death company dread
• death company
• baal predator

 

We also have unique options on assault squads (melta gun) and tactical squads (heavy flamer), as well as access to hand flamers and inferno pistols as character options.

 

personally, id have no issue seeing:

• librarian dreads
• furiosos dreads (just give all dreads the option for to CCW)
• baal predator

plus heavy flamer, melta gun and hand flamers all become generic frankly. It doesn't make much sense that any of those are unique to us.

 

So realistically a blood angels supplement would be:

• some characters
• death company
• sanguinary priest
• sanguinary guard
• sanguinary ancient

with inferno pistols as a unique wargear option possibly.

 

Officially in the lore, there was a single sanguinary guard left at the end of DoB, and most of the death company were wiped out due to their use as shock troops. Whilst the numbers of both can replenish of course, I wouldn't be surprised if we see primaris sanguinary guard at the least, probably as a 2-man unit similar to the ultramarine unit.

 

 

 

despite the above, i expect the status quo to continue with us having a distinct codex.

[Ishagu]

If the BA only gain access to the new Primaris units it would make more sense. If they get access to the whole generic codex it might be a bit bloated.

[Blindhamster]

If the BA only gain access to the new Primaris units it would make more sense. If they get access to the whole generic codex it might be a bit bloated.

If they became a supplement I imagine they'd have full access. But I think they're likely to stay as a full codex so wont get access to anything but new primaris stuff, just like the pdf is going to grant

[Emissary]

 

Andronichos An odd post that seems a little like trollIng since ishagu just asked a very similar question on this page but I think your speculation is wrong, I believe the 4 supplements will be

 

Imperial Fists

Iron Hands

Salamanders

Raven Guard

 

In other words the rest of the first founding with no supplement or codex of their own. Black tempers and Crimson Fists will probably be covered in the Imperial Fists supplement. I consider your list possible but unlikely and as to what I think I don’t want a Blood Angels supplement, I want a full codex.

 

No trolling intended, it was indeed a speculation. It is true that the wording of how the keyword <chapter> is replaced in the new codex points towards an exclusion of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Legion of the Damned and Space Wolves. And also Iron Hands seem to be getting Primaris models, so they would likely be included.

Too bad. 

 

 

I agree.  The fact that we know the Iron Hands are getting a new primaris special character and he wasn't included in the main codex leads me to believe they are one of the remaining 4 and I would suspect the other 3 are the remaining three chapters.  Plus the strategems in the main codex are rather light for those chapters if they aren't the codexes.

 

I also think the white dwarf may be where they install a holdover doctrine system (and strategems) for the other chapters starting with the Dark Angels.  I have no evidence for it, but it's just a hunch.  I also don't think we'll receive a codex for awhile and it may not be until the third wave of primaris come.

[Orblivion]

 

Hi there,

 

We know from Warhammer-Community what chapter tactics are for :

Ultramarines (who get a supplement)

White Scars (who get a supplement)

Crimson Fists

Black Templars

Imperial Fists

Raven guard

Salamanders

Iron Hands

These last 6 chapters usually do not get a proper codex (sorry Black Templars).

 

We know that there are 6 supplements supposed to be released:

1.Ultramarines - revealed

2.White Scars - revealed

Leaving 4 slots to fill, for which the 6 aforementioned chapters are too numerous. So for the 4 remaining releases what about:

3.Dark Angels (teased for the next WD)

4.Space Wolves

5.Blood Angels

6.Death Watch

 

and left over crying : Grey Knights who do not use Primaris Units and are thus not concerned.

 

 

 

And till our release we get the new units as a PDF.

 

What do you think of this?

Or Crimson Fists and Black Templars are both in the Imperial Fists supplement and now you've got the 4 remaining supplements.

[Indefragable]

All depends on whether you consider yourself a Space Marine, of the Blood Angels chapter...

 

...or a Blood Angel, who is a type of Space Marine.

 

 

I’m in the latter group and prefer to be separate book.

 

There’s a historical precedence for the Big Four chapters being just that, with Ultramarines as the poster child (for better or worse) of the “normal” SM, two chapters with noticeably different geneseed (SW and BA), and then the relatively pure geneseed DA who are noticeably different in attitude, organization, and practice, going all the way back to the Unification on Terra. They are deliberately a step away from the rest.

[Escaflowne_Z]

Remember the polarizing 3.5 Chaos codex?  Do we want that for loyalist chapters is the real question here.  Yes, they could fit everyone in.  Would it be a giant book with likely internal balance probems?  Would it make sense for GW from a financial perspective to bundle them up like that?  I think not; GW's trend is to release models alongside codexes primarily.  Spreading releases out in this way makes too much financial sense. 

[The Unseen]

I'd be fine as a supplement.

We were once before, we can be again.

We ARE a codex compliant chapter.

We have our differences, but we fight more like an ultramarine than we do a space wolf.

Some of our successors could perhaps flip that claim.

 

How much of our book is actually different to vanilla marines?

 

A handful of unique units, fewer special characters than the ultras for Sanguinius' sake, a psychic discipline unique to us, and a handful of unique strats (4 I think, forlorn fury, descent of angels, over charged engines, upon wings of fire)

I'm pretty sure the supplements are going to have similar amounts of stuff in them.

If they don't, players of those factions should rightly throw a fit that they're buying a book with very little content.

 

I'm just hoping on Saturday, we get access to some of the new goodies like strats, and not just the new units. Some of them look like a lot of fun.

[Panzer]

All depends on whether you consider yourself a Space Marine, of the Blood Angels chapter...

 

...or a Blood Angel, who is a type of Space Marine.

 

 

It's literally the same thing for me.

We ARE a codex compliant chapter.

 

 

We are not. We just don't differ as much from them as say Space Wolves or Grey Knights.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

All depends on whether you consider yourself a Space Marine, of the Blood Angels chapter...

 

...or a Blood Angel, who is a type of Space Marine.

 

It's literally the same thing for me.

We ARE a codex compliant chapter.

 

We are not. We just don't differ as much from them as say Space Wolves or Grey Knights.

We are, we have always been described as codex compliant except for where necessity or older traditions dictated we not be.

 

Death company are necessity

Sanguinary guard are just our honour guard

Our apothecaries have greater importance by necessity

 

We have a few vehicle types others dont for essentially no real reason.

 

Our chapter structure is literally a perfect example of codex compliance in company breakdown and makeup.

[Djangomatic82]

So with the tease of a dark angels section in next months white dwarf, an alternate possibility has occurred to me. It may be possible that we and the SW's do not receive a supplement at all ( or at least not for a very long time), but instead get a White Dwarf article similar to the Crimson Fists and Blood Ravens index's. If it includes a few interesting stratagems, maybe a warlord trait or two and a specialist formation, i would be content, considering the the points drops and shock attack rule already in the pipeline.

[Blindhamster]

So with the tease of a dark angels section in next months white dwarf, an alternate possibility has occurred to me. It may be possible that we and the SW's do not receive a supplement at all ( or at least not for a very long time), but instead get a White Dwarf article similar to the Crimson Fists and Blood Ravens index's. If it includes a few interesting stratagems, maybe a warlord trait or two and a specialist formation, i would be content, considering the the points drops and shock attack rule already in the pipeline.

If it's a white dwarf update to our existing codex that makes sense. If it's a white dwarf codex space marines article it doesn't. Too many units and characters to put in one

[Karhedron]

An update in WD to help clear up any discrepancies with the new SM Codex would be nice. But why would they not just put such stuff in the PDF?

 

One thing that puzzles me slightly is Firstborn units that we know are changing. For example, the Vindicator Demolisher Cannon has gone from Heavy D3/D6 to straight Heavy D6. That is a decent buff as it almost doubles the average number of shots against single-model units like vehicles. How will we get access to that?

[Charlo]

Honestly I don't really mind as long as we get interesting, thematic, fun and competitive rules.

 

A supplement at this point is basically a full codex sans the generic units. I'm fully down for that.

 

Though I think we will remain a full codex.

[SnorriSnorrison]

An update in WD to help clear up any discrepancies with the new SM Codex would be nice. But why would they not just put such stuff in the PDF?

 

One thing that puzzles me slightly is Firstborn units that we know are changing. For example, the Vindicator Demolisher Cannon has gone from Heavy D3/D6 to straight Heavy D6. That is a decent buff as it almost doubles the average number of shots against single-model units like vehicles. How will we get access to that?

1. Exactly why I think we’ll remain as our own codex.

 

2. Wuut? So the vindicator has gone up to D6 shots all of a sudden? Is that confirmed?

[Karhedron]

2. Wuut? So the vindicator has gone up to D6 shots all of a sudden? Is that confirmed?

Yup, if you check out the video flip-through of the Codex, the Vindicator is around 30:48. It is now a straight Heavy D6 with no conditions. That gives it a damage output almost on-par with a quad-las Predator but 50 points cheaper. OK it only has half the range but it gets +1T and +2W as well so I think this looks rather tasty now.

 

[Jolemai]

If we are to have that (and Drop Pod changes, etc) then there will be an errata for our Codex.

[Karhedron]

If we are to have that (and Drop Pod changes, etc) then there will be an errata for our Codex.

That is a big "IF" though. Will we get changes like this to common units? Or will we have to make do with old school rules (potentially for months) before we get a new codex?

 

Price adjustments are fairly easy but changes to weapons or stats are harder. We know that Gravis units are getting +1W and +1A. Will we get those slates updated in addition to the new Vanguard ones? That is at least existing 5 slates in our codex that will be out of date tomorrow.

[Charlo]

 

If we are to have that (and Drop Pod changes, etc) then there will be an errata for our Codex.

That is a big "IF" though. Will we get changes like this to common units? Or will we have to make do with old school rules (potentially for months) before we get a new codex?

 

Price adjustments are fairly easy but changes to weapons or stats are harder. We know that Gravis units are getting +1W and +1A. Will we get those slates updated in addition to the new Vanguard ones? That is at least existing 5 slates in our codex that will be out of date tomorrow.

Can't wait.

 

It'll be just like 7th Ed again.