How has the new codex performed for you?

[Link2edition]

Question, so how good are Company Veterans for y'all now? They can intercept wounds for Characters, but with (new) Black Templar CT, they get a 5+ vs Mortal Wounds.

I really like them, give them storm bolters and pump out a comical amount of shots, then charge, use "Suffer not the unclean to live" and smash whatever you run into, I enjoyed doing that today.

 

I just got home from the tourney, 12 players showed up. It was using the ITC format

 

Here is your batrep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euCBOTdKHVs

 

Seriously though. 

 

 

 

Game 1 was vs deamons, I killed a plague crawler and a chunk of plaugebearer on the drop. I then charged the plaugebearers with lots of stuff, but only one unit of sword bros made it in. Another plaugecrawler tried to flame the melta gunners, but as they died they held those triggers down and blew it up. 

 

 

He charged a deamon prince into my lines, but helbrect counter charged and killed it in one round of combat. In turn 2 helbrect moved around and charged another deamon prince, grimaldus finished off the plaugebearers and we basically shot anything nasty of his to death. 

 

 

There was then one massive combat in the center of the board, loads of deamons piling onto the drop zone and getting cut down for their efforts. I won the game, but we timed out due to the time it took to resolve that combat. 14-5

 

Game 2 was against chaos marines, the drop was devestating, and when he tried to attack the DZ by banner let me shoot lots of units and kill both his captains, a knight, and some other vehicles in his turn. After that it was just cleanup, with the landspeeders pulling most of the weight.

 

Ended up tabling that guy 30-19

 

Game 3 was agaist imperial guard, specifically against 3 shadowswords.

 

 

I killed one on the drop, but I flubbed all my melta shots and had to do it with bolters. return fire was pretty devestating, but despite my dice still being crap I managed to get enough shots off with my banner to bracket another shadowsword, it charged helbrect and the chapter master killed it.

 

The last tank was really a problem, I just had my missile launchers and a couple of meltas left, and the meltas werent hitting. I tried charging it, but I lost both helbrect and grimaldus to overwatch thanks to that volcano cannon. It took me a couple of turns but I finnally killed it... and it exploded, right in the middle of the entire fight, wiping out large portions of both armies, though zeal did save a few units.

 

Now that he had nuked himself and only had a couple of units left, I shot those to death and the game ended with a charge on his commander, the last model he had on the board.

 

So I tabled my final opponent as well 37-12

 

I took second in the tournament and went undefeated. Used the prize money to buy more grav cannons and neophytes.

[Brother Talarian]

Sounds awesome man! Grats on the wins!

What litany did you take on Grim?

What did you try charging with once you dropped, did you keep all devs put and try charging with SB + characters?

 

Seems to be the case, but do you find the relic banner still worth it on a 4+ fire after death? Guess the extra range is a bit handy

[Link2edition]

Sounds awesome man! Grats on the wins!

What litany did you take on Grim?

What did you try charging with once you dropped, did you keep all devs put and try charging with SB + characters?

 

Seems to be the case, but do you find the relic banner still worth it on a 4+ fire after death? Guess the extra range is a bit handy

1. I took the +1 to wound with ranged attacks litany, used it to get more out of the devestators the turn after the drop.

 

2. I tried charging with grim, helbrect, and all the sword brethern when I dropped. If I did it again though I would either give the sword bros better weapons or only charge the turn after the drop. Helbrect and the sword bros never made it into the same combat, and while helbrect can hold his own, the sword bros need that +1 str.

 

3. The banner is 100% worth it, I killed about as much in the enemy turns as I did in my own, it also kept me from having to deal with morale. The 9 inch range made sure the whole DZ was covered, I wouldnt run it any other way.

[Jacques Corbin]

Nice, if you are ever in the Norfolk or Virginia Beach area, let's get a beer and have a game @Link2edition!

 

This was a crazy summer, and I only got 2 games in. Need to get the new codex too. Does not help that the gaming area at Atlantis in Ocean View is closed for renovations. I really like that place, my wife is comfortable there.

 

Did you run any Dreadnoughts? I would figure that an Ironclad with Chainfist, Launchers, and Hurricane Bolter would do some work, especially as a Black Templar, and near Grimaldus.

 

Back to the topic of Company Veterans, I agree on Storm Bolters. How about Chainswords as well? Chainsword and Storm Bolter has been a favorite load out for squad sergeants in my games. Are Storm shields worth it? How about taking an Apothecary to get them back in the fight? Also, if slots are not an issue, what about two units of 3 vs one unit of 5? Force an opponent to "waste" fire on removing each small unit of bodyguards? Which characters deserve Company Veteran bodyguards? I mean, they would be mean escorting Grimaldus, and they would be a big help to EC getting to his intended opponent, but how about for a company ancient, or a Lieutenant (Castellan)?

[Jacques Corbin]

"Besides, was it not the crusaders of old who used tribuchet's and battering rams to weaken their foes and tear down their city walls before pouring in and purifying those left to stand?" @Noctus Cornix from You know you are a Black Templar when...

 

On that note, Chaplain with Ranged Buff Litany, standing by 2 or 3 Thunderfire Cannons while Devastator Doctrine is in effect. Am I right?

[MarshalMittermeier]

"Besides, was it not the crusaders of old who used tribuchet's and battering rams to weaken their foes and tear down their city walls before pouring in and purifying those left to stand?" @Noctus Cornix from You know you are a Black Templar when...

 

On that note, Chaplain with Ranged Buff Litany, standing by 2 or 3 Thunderfire Cannons while Devastator Doctrine is in effect. Am I right?

 

I am more and more inclined to check on Sternguard possibilities for black templars.

 

for 149 points, you get:

10 sternguard with a sergeant with power fist.

thats 27 attacks on the charge plus 3 power fist attacks plus the 9 pistols.

they need NO transport, for they can simply move and shoot people to ribbons with 20 attacks of AP -3 (tactical doctrine). sure, they need some investment in 1-2 cp to be considered stationary for the first one-two turns despite moving forward, but they can really wreck havoc.

 

you can take 30 of them with a chaplain with the catechism of fire (+1 to wound ranged). they will wound toughness 7 on a 4+. with -3 AP. on a threat range (rapid fire) of 15" +6". 60 attacks.  on average, that is 20 wounds vs toughness 7 per turn, and -3 on saves- or 13 wounds vs toughness 8+. and if the toughness is t4 or less, than we talk about massacre (30+ wounds with -3 AP per turn) come on, it'll be fun XD

 

 

i sincerely think sternguard + tactical doctrine is kinda busted/broken. 30 of them is just 420 points, such a small fraction of an army for such destructive power. catechism of fire in particular, is insane as synergy because it doesnt give +1 str on ranged weapons but +1 to wound rolls, making them wound t3 on 2+ and t7 on 4+. you cannot even assault the 30 sternguard cause even without any p.fists they bust out 90+ cc attacks with angels of death, they are no slouch.

[Jacques Corbin]

 

 

"Besides, was it not the crusaders of old who used tribuchet's and battering rams to weaken their foes and tear down their city walls before pouring in and purifying those left to stand?" @Noctus Cornix from You know you are a Black Templar when...

 

On that note, Chaplain with Ranged Buff Litany, standing by 2 or 3 Thunderfire Cannons while Devastator Doctrine is in effect. Am I right?

I am more and more inclined to check on Sternguard possibilities for black templars.

 

for 149 points, you get:

10 sternguard with a sergeant with power fist.

thats 27 attacks on the charge plus 3 power fist attacks plus the 9 pistols.

they need NO transport, for they can simply move and shoot people to ribbons with 20 attacks of AP -3 (tactical doctrine). sure, they need some investment in 1-2 cp to be considered stationary for the first one-two turns despite moving forward, but they can really wreck havoc.

 

you can take 30 of them with a chaplain with the catechism of fire (+1 to wound ranged). they will wound toughness 7 on a 4+. with -3 AP. on a threat range (rapid fire) of 15" +6". 60 attacks. on average, that is 20 wounds vs toughness 7 per turn, and -3 on saves- or 13 wounds vs toughness 8+. and if the toughness is t4 or less, than we talk about massacre (30+ wounds with -3 AP per turn) come on, it'll be fun XD

 

 

i sincerely think sternguard + tactical doctrine is kinda busted/broken. 30 of them is just 420 points, such a small fraction of an army for such destructive power. catechism of fire in particular, is insane as synergy because it doesnt give +1 str on ranged weapons but +1 to wound rolls, making them wound t3 on 2+ and t7 on 4+. you cannot even assault the 30 sternguard cause even without any p.fists they bust out 90+ cc attacks with angels of death, they are no slouch.

Thank you. Catechism of Fire, plus Devastator Doctrine, on Thunderfire Cannons means 4d3 shots of S5, AP-2, +1 to wound, ignores line of sight, and range to hit almost anything on the table. Opening salvos will be brutal, even with Tremor Shells, which Chappy will offset the penalty to wound.

 

Yes, Sternguard, absolutely. Mad possibility for carnage, as it should be.

[Marshal Arthur]

Glad to see your success. I got my drop pod shortly before 8th dropped. Used it once and decided never again but I'm excited to finally throw it on the board. My group mostly plays Kill Team and Warcry but my local game shop does Warhammer nights so I may try and find a game to test out the codex soon. What stratagems did you find most useful?

[Marshal Laeroth]

Just remember that with Catechism of Fire, you need to shoot at the closest enemy unit for it to work. So very careful positioning and crossing your fingers there are no throwaway/bubblewrap units in front.

[Jacques Corbin]

Just remember that with Catechism of Fire, you need to shoot at the closest enemy unit for it to work. So very careful positioning and crossing your fingers there are no throwaway/bubblewrap units in front.

I would use TFCs to clear bubblewrap any game.

[Link2edition]

Did you run any Dreadnoughts? I would figure that an Ironclad with Chainfist, Launchers, and Hurricane Bolter would do some work, especially as a Black Templar, and near Grimaldus.

This list I used can be found here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357811-new-codex-black-templar-alphastrike-pods-2000-points-14cp/

 

 

On that note, Chaplain with Ranged Buff Litany, standing by 2 or 3 Thunderfire Cannons while Devastator Doctrine is in effect. Am I right?

By my understanding of the rules the ranged buff litanies only effect one unit at a time.

 

 

 

 What stratagems did you find most useful?

"Gravitc Amplification" Was the most useful one, but I also used "Suffer Not the unclean to live" a whole lot. It might be worth taking the vigilus formation just to give Helbrect access to that.

 

I had a neophyte squad with a heavy bolter using "Hellfire Shells" to finish off units, I burned through all 14 CP in 2 or 3 turns using all of these, but it was obviously worth it.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Great to hear about your success here link, I really like your list. If you're looking for more punch with your sword brethren, I recommend power fists. I really like your use of Helbrecht as well, do you feel your list would have performed as well without grimaldus? As you can only really start using him on turn 2. I'm actually rather surprised to hear that you got a good amount of use out of him and that your devastators weren't all gone turn 2 in most games.

 

I've been playing smaller point games recently, gearing up for my first 2000 pointers here soon. I've been painting up my suppressors, I think they are going to end up being key. 

 

A report from my game last night- it was a 2v2 of astartes war games, each player bringing 1000 points. Myself and the Ultramarines vs Salamanders and Flesh Tearers. 

 

Something I learned: Basic blood angel infantry with regular melee attacks CAN kill toughness 7 vehicles easily. I rushed forward with a Rhino that my sword brethren and a tac squad inside, and the blood angels surrounded it with a few characters that only had standard melee attacks, a couple power swords, and an intercessor squad. They literally killed my Rhino from full health with regular infantry attacks based on being able to wound it on a 4+ alone. I then lost my sword brethren and tac squad due to the incredibly stupid rules about surrounding transports and having the infantry inside instantly die. We still somehow managed to win, but I was very caught off guard by that rather frustrated at the idea that regular blood angel infantry without any sort of support being able to pop a Rhino. 

[Link2edition]

 I really like your use of Helbrecht as well, do you feel your list would have performed as well without grimaldus? As you can only really start using him on turn 2. I'm actually rather surprised to hear that you got a good amount of use out of him and that your devastators weren't all gone turn 2 in most games.

Yeah it would have done fine without him. His bonus attack aura is on all the time, so the theory was when the drop got charged I would get some benefit. In practice I normally wasn't getting enough swings to get many 6's. I am taking him out of the list, might put the emperor's champion back in, but I need 3 HQs in any case for the brigade.

 

The devastators did generally die pretty quick, bit since the banner let them shoot back they often saved other units by killing threats in my opponents turn before he could shoot them. It also helps I was running 5 man units, as they are really easy to overkill, which wastes a lot of shots.

[Medjugorje]

so now I had my first games with the new Space Marines Codex.  I would say that we have 2 problems:

 

- coming into the assault doctrine 

- Chaplains are not that good I thought they would be. 

 

I played 

1x6 Aggressors and 1x5 Aggressor

3x3 Inceptor with Bolters

3x5 Scouts

3x5 Crusadersquads (with Botler - Tactical squads)

and 8 AssaultTerminators

2 Jump Captains

1 Jump Leutnant

1 Jumpf Chaplain.

 

I played against a Successor Chapter with Stealth and Master Artisans with

 

3x5 Hellblaster

4x5 Intercessors

1 Redemptor

1 Captain on Bike

1 Master Phobos

1 Leutnant with Teeth of Terra

2x3 Inceptors with Plasma 

1x Terminator Captain

(maybe i did forget something#)

 

 

At first I have to say that Aggressors without rerolling bonus are not able to take down a single 3 remain wounded Bikercaptain - and then still die

[Link2edition]

Which litany did your chaplain take?

[Medjugorje]

canticle of hate... it worked - but I tried to kill the Biker Captain and soround a hellblaster squad of 3 - so that I cannot be targeted with the rest. The chaplain was within 2" but like i said - 17 Attacks from the aggressors dont get the captain down ( my dice were very BAD) and the biker captain killed all 5 Aggressors in this round - so he was able to charge my chaplain ( then both killed each other in his turn). I let my Terminators on 2 mission objectives because I had Mission 33 and 31 ( take the marker 2 turns) - With Transhuman physiology they were very powerful.

 

They killed 3 Aggressors ( i forget to mention, he had 2x3 Aggressors too), 6 wounds of the redemptor and 5 Intercessors befor they were killed in turn 6.  

 

In general I would say that Stealt is the most powerful chapter tactic. But I´ve played just 4 games with Space Marines now and this was my first game with Black Templars.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I used the +1 to hit one on Alaitoc, that was very useful.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I forgot this thread existed and its more appropriate to post it here, so I'll copy paste-

 

Battle report from today: 

 

Played 2k points with the new codex vs. Thousand Sons + Tzeentch Daemons. 

 

His list was:

 

3 Sorcs, Ahriman, 2 daemon princes, 2 10 man rubric squads, a couple squads of horrors, 2 tzeentch chariots, 10 tzaangors, and 5 scarabs. 

Lots of infantry, no vehicles. Good for me. 

 

My List:

 

Brigade, Sword Brethren Detachment

 

Captain, Teeth of Terra/Bolt Pistol

Primaris Captain, Extra wound WL trait, Power Sword

Primaris Lt, Power Sword

Chaplain Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Imperium Sword WL Trait, Manta of Strength Litany

 

Incursors x6

Intercessors x7 Stalker Rifles

Intercessors x5 Assault Bolt Rifles

Scouts x5, Heavy Bolter

Scouts x5

Scouts x5

 

Inceptors, Plasma x3

Suppressors x3

Bikers x3

 

Sword Brethren, SS/Chainsword x4, SS/PowerFist Sgt

Cenobyte Servitors

Sternguard x10

 

Devastators, 4x GravCannon, Cherub

Thunderfire Cannon

Eliminators

 

I had first turn, and the drop was brutal. I was able to kill half his army on turn 1. After I killed a 10 man squad of Rubrics with the grav cannons alone, the Sternguard blasted a chariot thanks to masterful marksmenship. I was able to easily kill off some squishy daemons with the incursors and other shooting. 

 

Snipers put wounds down on a Daemon prince, brought him low, so I decided what the hell, lets charge the teeth of terra into it. Made the 10'' charge and killed it. It was a devastating alpha strike. 

 

My opponent didn't have the models to retaliate afterwards, and I stayed ahead on objective points. 

 

Also, the Chaplain dreadnought is scary good as long as your opponent doesn't make 12/12 4+ invulnerable saves. He got in it with a Daemon Prince, didn't kill him in 2 rounds of combat with Honor the Chapter, because my opponent made crazy saves, but if that doesn't happen, it literally only takes 2 of those strikes getting through to drop the Daemon Prince with Damage 4 due to Mantra of Strength. 

 

Also, I decided to pair him up with the Sword brethren because he can do a similar thing to Helbrecht, with 1 CP he can at least give them re roll 1s to hit and if they are in combat together he gives out the +1 strength. Also, pairing the dreadnought with those guys can make him incredibly resilient. 

 

Not only can the Sword Brethren take hits for the Chaplain Dread, getting a 5+ against the mortal wound, but the dread has a 5+ invuln, 6+ ignore damage, and can halve damage incoming for 1 CP. It seems to be like all of that makes for a very difficult to kill character dreadnought. 

 

I actually didn't get to use the suppressor cancelling overwatch ability, I didn't need it. Suppressors feel very nice to use. 

 

Looking forward to more games against xenos and such. 

[Link2edition]

How many pods did you use? What went in each pod?

[SydonianDragoon404]

Whoops, totally forgot to post my transports. I used 2 pods and 1 Rhino

 

Pod 1 had ToT Captain + Grav Devs

Pod 2 had 10 Sternguard

Rhino had 5 Sword brethren and 3 Cenobytes (incase the rhino explodes and I roll some ones) 

 

Grav Devs and Sternguard proved to be a brutal enough alpha strike for playing against a T Sons list that wasn't exactly a tournament army but also not exactly a pushover either. 3 squads of grav devs in pods is the future, especially looking at Iron Hands.

 

I love the new Chaplain Dreadnought of Death. I'm gonna keep fielding him. I miss Helbrecht but he does a similar thing if he gets in combat along side the sword brethren. 

[Acebaur]

Whoops, totally forgot to post my transports. I used 2 pods and 1 Rhino

 

Pod 1 had ToT Captain + Grav Devs

Pod 2 had 10 Sternguard

Rhino had 5 Sword brethren and 3 Cenobytes (incase the rhino explodes and I roll some ones) 

 

Grav Devs and Sternguard proved to be a brutal enough alpha strike for playing against a T Sons list that wasn't exactly a tournament army but also not exactly a pushover either. 3 squads of grav devs in pods is the future, especially looking at Iron Hands.

 

I love the new Chaplain Dreadnought of Death. I'm gonna keep fielding him. I miss Helbrecht but he does a similar thing if he gets in combat along side the sword brethren. 

 

Not to mention you can make the Chaplain captain for a day with Wisdom of the Ancients

[Link2edition]

Friendly Suggestion: one of those pods has 4 free slots in it. I would put some company veterans with storm bolters in there. Or you could drop the rhino and servitors and put the vets you already have in there. It makes your alphastrike a little nastier and frees up a significant amount of points.

[SydonianDragoon404]

 

 

Not to mention you can make the Chaplain captain for a day with Wisdom of the Ancients

 

 

I did exactly this during a turn where I had the CP for it. I burned up all of my CP in 3 turns because I used Target Acquired and Honor the Chapter. Nice to have it all though. 

 

 

Friendly Suggestion: one of those pods has 4 free slots in it. I would put some company veterans with storm bolters in there. Or you could drop the rhino and servitors and put the vets you already have in there. It makes your alphastrike a little nastier and frees up a significant amount of points.

 

I'm not sure I'm sold on putting pure melee units in pods Link. I do appreciate the suggestion, but at the end of the day, no matter what you are always going to be 9'' away. These vets I run are stormshield and melee weapon. 

 

The main reason I have them in a Rhino is to have more direct control over where they go and when, so I can run them up with the Chaplain Dreadnought to form that combo I was talking about. If you want to be able to shoot at the chaplain dread, you have to get through the 3+ invuln save guys first. If they choose to hit the dreadnought first, or maybe I purposefully position him up front, they can take wounds for him instead. 

 

If I put those vets inside that pod, they would be rather out of position to be supported by/support the chaplain dreadnought, and likely out of charge range when I take into consideration what my targets are going to be for the devastators. 

 

In summary, I would say that putting any kind of pure melee unit in a pod is a poor choice because you have so little control over where they end up. Always 9'' away, sitting in front of your opponent. It's a rather low chance that my Captain with the ToT was able to make into close combat to kill that Daemon Prince when he dropped in with the devastators, and he paid the price for it with his life after. 

 

As for taking some storm bolter vets in the pod instead, I agree it would be nice, but then I am taking a risk on that Rhino exploding and potentially taking my melee vets with it. I may end up just nixing taking any melee vets with my chaplain dreadnought at all and just throw them in the pod and take storm bolters instead of storm shields anyway, as I'm sure that's the more competitive choice, I just like having some sort of elite melee element to the army thematically. 

 

Our primaris close combat unit can't arrive quickly enough haha. And I aint talking about Reeeeeeevers lol. 

 

 

I know its the wrong thread but the other are closed. 

 

Is that rumor about -1 to hit a special thing for the Crusader squad who jump out of LRC or a general thing for BT. How awesome would it be to get -1 to hit in close combat.

 

Meh

[Brother Sheep]

Please correct me, if i am wrong.

If your chaplain dread takes damage, first you will roll his invulv/armorsave, then his 6+ fnp, then the vets if they take the dmg for him and THEN their 5+ fnp due to mortal wounds.

Together with halving the dmg on the dread with the stratagem.

 

This sounds overly complicated, but insanely strong

[SydonianDragoon404]

Incorrect. If your opponent shoots a Lascannon at your Chaplain dread, hits it, and wounds it, you can choose to either take your saves and damage on the Chaplain dread, or attempt to pass off the Lascannon hit+wound onto a company veteran. You must roll a 2+ to do this, and the company veteran must be within 3''. The company veteran when he does this takes a mortal wound.