Primaris Inceptors: Bolters vs Plasma

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. Simple debate question for you in regards to the new Space Marine Codex and the updated Inceptors. With these guys, do you prefer fielding yours with the Assault Bolters for the extra dakka and the reliable 3x shots per Bolter? Or do you spend the points and risk the D3 shots from the Plasma Exterminators for extra hitting power? Edited August 27, 2019 by Rommel44

[Panzer]

I'd say if you have a Captain nearby or can drop one together with them go for Plasma. It's the ultimate allround weapon these days. Without the re-roll aura they are way too risky though. A single rolled 1 for the hit rolls per model means you lose an average of 4 shots and 3 T5 wounds. The chance for that to happen is about 67%. That's quite a lot you lose on quite a high risk.

 

Bolter Inceptors on the other hand are usually rather reliable thanks to the volume of shots with decent profile. Their only disadvantage is that their range of targets is way more limited.

Edited August 27, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Charlo]

Bolter ones are totally savage with the AP2 from Assault Doctrine. Really Excellent against all kinds of infantry and even tougher things like Tau Suits and Custodes.

[Closet Skeleton]

I use Imperial Fists tactics so bolters are a no brainer.

[Race Bannon]

<--- bullet farmer ^_^

[CCE1981]

I like the Plasma guys in groups of 5, supported by a Captain. And the bolters in groups of three to harass my opponent. Sometimes it is well worth risking those ones on a juicy target. One game it was a Land Raider (Dark Angels), another it was three nurgle Characters (RavenGuard).

[Dark Legionnare]

I have three of each.  I rely on/use the bolter guys the most.  They're dangerous, but not "TOO dangerous."

The plasma ones, on the other hand, are "TOO Dangerous" those guys are just absolute bullet magnets once they're on the table because of the sheer amount of death they can spew.

They are doing a job in that role though, taking Las-cannon, plasma, missile, etc... shots and whatnot that would otherwise be going for my Redemptor or Repulsor (impulsor too eventually).  This paired especially well with the old RG tactics, since their guns (both variants) are range enough to abuse advancing to stay at over 12" away, but in range to unload, on near any part of the table half they're on.  T5 models, in cover, with -1 to hit was a good magnet profile to cause more and more firepower to NEED to go their way to get rid of them.

Ultimately, plasma ones tend to die near instantly on the next opponent turn due to their "This needs to die, because in its first round of shooting, it nuked an entire squad, it'll probably do that again" factor.  They're fun, powerful, and great distractions, but ultimately, there's something unfulfilling about having a squad wait around until turn 2, and then be dead by end of 2, or beginning of 3.  With 3 wounds now, they'll survive OC'd plasma more though, so that's nice, they'll likely do much better at soaking up that too now; taking it away from my Intercessors, etc...

As for the bolter ones, dropping them somewhere cheeky to unload those six heavy bolters worth of shots is a punishing hail of fire for anti-inf, anti-weapon-teams, and light vehicle harassing , etc... This is especially true now, like others have mentioned, in the Tactical Doctrine; making them AP -2 will be even more amazing.  I love them, they're great VP grabbers, harassers, etc... And this was before they went up a wound and attack, and shock assault.  I might actually charge them into enemy ranged squads more now, as long as its still not at risk of getting annihilated in the open by return fire the next turn.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Dark Legionnare

[zero88]

These days I'd say Bolters are better. With the price drop, and the perfect marriage between T2 deep strike and the Tactical Doctrine, they're just way too efficient to not take. Plus with Executioners and Las Fusils around, Primaris have some other anti tank options now

[Lemondish]

Bolter ones are totally savage with the AP2 from Assault Doctrine. Really Excellent against all kinds of infantry and even tougher things like Tau Suits and Custodes.

 

It'll actually apply in the Tactical Doctrine - despite the names being so confusing, Tactical Doctrine applies to rapid fire and assault weapons while Assault Doctrine applies to pistol and melee weapons. With the assault bolters being assault weapons, they obviously imply assault doctrine, but they'll actually be impacted by Tactical instead and therefore be more effective earlier. 

 

I'm also an Imperial Fist and will always prefer the bolt weapons just for the fun of it. 

 

These days I'd say Bolters are better. With the price drop, and the perfect marriage between T2 deep strike and the Tactical Doctrine, they're just way too efficient to not take. Plus with Executioners and Las Fusils around, Primaris have some other anti tank options now

 

I think Tactical Doctrine also applies to Plasma, which would make them particularly effective against pretty much any non-invuln target. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Lemondish

[Mandragola]

Like most people I prefer bolter inceptors. I don’t use them that much though. I might change that when my Crimson fist rules appear again, as they have been improved quite a bit by the recent rule changes.

 

Despite sharing a data sheet, plasma and bolter inceptors shouldn’t really be thought of as the same unit at all. Their function is different and they cost vastly different amounts.

 

I think it makes more sense to compare plasma inceptors with hellblasters, or maybe something like grav devastators in a drop pod, and bolter ones with... I’m not sure what. Reivers or aggressors maybe - and of course now assault bolter intercessors.

 

The question shhoukd be: “which unit does this or that task the best?” not “which we’hich gun is best for this unit?”.

 

There’s also the opportunity cost to consider. I find myself worrying about the number of fast attack slots I have for the first time since grav bikers were a thing. Now, suppressors exist and demand very serious consideration. You can have two suppressors for the cost of one plasma inceptor and shoot at things from far, far away.

[PiñaColada]

I just find plasma inceptors tricky, you need those to hit rerolls and unless you're playing UM and use "sons of guilliman" on them it's not that easy to pull off. Or rather it's at least a bit more restrictive than I'd like. Also as others have noted, the bolter option was already really good but now that you get a squad of 3 for 123 points they're tough to go wrong with.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Plasma is the best and smurfs have a strat to reroll 1s. They make Knights go away.

[Dracos]

As a midwesterner in the US, I can share tales of the dangers of overfarming ;)

 

Between, Intercessors, Aggressor, and Reivers I feel my Warhawks have a nice level of Dakka. Plasma-ceptors are going to give the ability to reach those varmints in the back 40 that are too hard to reach for their Hellblaster Brothers :)

[Lemondish]

Like most people I prefer bolter inceptors. I don’t use them that much though. I might change that when my Crimson fist rules appear again, as they have been improved quite a bit by the recent rule changes.

 

Despite sharing a data sheet, plasma and bolter inceptors shouldn’t really be thought of as the same unit at all. Their function is different and they cost vastly different amounts.

 

I think it makes more sense to compare plasma inceptors with hellblasters, or maybe something like grav devastators in a drop pod, and bolter ones with... I’m not sure what. Reivers or aggressors maybe - and of course now assault bolter intercessors.

 

The question shhoukd be: “which unit does this or that task the best?” not “which we’hich gun is best for this unit?”.

 

There’s also the opportunity cost to consider. I find myself worrying about the number of fast attack slots I have for the first time since grav bikers were a thing. Now, suppressors exist and demand very serious consideration. You can have two suppressors for the cost of one plasma inceptor and shoot at things from far, far away.

I'm curious (once again) to know how many fast attack slots you think you need versus how many you think you can have.

 

A battalion, for instance, can support 3 entries all on its own. Spearheads and Vanguards can support 2 each with up to 6 supported in an Outrider.

 

I don't think I have ever had to worry about number of slots with this new force organization system.

 

Are you only thinking in terms of a minimum brigade?

Edited August 28, 2019 by Lemondish

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Even if you don’t super charge exterminators put out more shots on average.

[SyNidus]

I think the real question is: Are Plasma-ceptors a viable anti-tank option compared to other primaris options?

A group of 6 clock in at about 40 points more than a base Repulsor Executioner. When you look at it that way, it's not quite as appealing.

[Ishagu]

I think the real question is: Are Plasma-ceptors a viable anti-tank option compared to other primaris options?

 

A group of 6 clock in at about 40 points more than a base Repulsor Executioner. When you look at it that way, it's not quite as appealing.

They are anti elite and anti light armour. A group of 6 is an average of 24 Str7 ap-4 2 damage shots. That's substantial, especially on a 3 wound T5 infantry unit that arrives anywhere from reserves.

They need Strat or character support to keep them from exploding, however.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Ishagu

[Panzer]

I think the real question is: Are Plasma-ceptors a viable anti-tank option compared to other primaris options?

 

A group of 6 clock in at about 40 points more than a base Repulsor Executioner. When you look at it that way, it's not quite as appealing.

 

Well you made me compare them now .... I'm not even sure I'd take the Executioner over Plasma Inceptors for anti-tank duties all the time.

 

 

So if you can double shoot and get all your secondaries in range (those are the numbers for 18" so no rapid fire Bolters, though those make only little difference against vehicles anyway) the Plasma Executioner is obviously the best. However it needs to get real close which puts it into danger and you might not be able to shoot at what you want/need to shoot because your opponent has time to counter play this one.

 

The HLD Executioner lacks behind in damage and if you play to its strength (staying far away from danger) you can't really count the secondaries towards the damage output except maybe for the HOGC and the Twin HB which would roughly be +2 damage. This one takes time to deal as much damage as the others but unless your opponent is hiding out of sight you can be sure to deal damage from turn 1 on right away.

 

The Plasma Inceptors are a glass hammer. They come down and put the hurt on a target. Whether you can repeat that or not depends on how many 1s you roll and how much your opponent has left to deal with up to 18 T5 Sv3+ wounds. So probably a once per game deal. However it is enough to blow up pretty much any vehicle that's not a super heavy without your opponent being able to do much about it if you prepared accordingly (aka screen clearing).

 

 

Maybe a mix is the real way to go depending on your meta.

 

 

EDIT: note that these numbers don't factor in Combat Doctrines as those change over the course of the game and potentially across different Codexes and Supplements.

Edited August 28, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Orange Knight]

Personally I find the Bolter Inceptors to be very appealing because of the price and their new durability.

 

However...

 

Perhaps we shouldn't be asking how they compare against the Plasma, but how each variant bolsters your list. The downside to the Bolter Inceptors is that the typical Astartes army will be putting out a lot of anti infantry firepower. A generic Intercessor squad can deal with hordes and MEQ alike thanks to the volume of fire.

There are units that can arrive to capture objectives that cost less points and, importantly, attract less attention - I've recently come to appreciative Reivers for this reason.

 

The Plasmas fill a similar role to Hellblasters, except they don't require a transport. That's perhaps a better way to think about the units.

[Dracos]

And just like hellblasters need intercessors to work with so do plasma-cepters need rivers when they are dropping in on turn two

[Lemondish]

 

I think the real question is: Are Plasma-ceptors a viable anti-tank option compared to other primaris options?

 

A group of 6 clock in at about 40 points more than a base Repulsor Executioner. When you look at it that way, it's not quite as appealing.

They are anti elite and anti light armour. A group of 6 is an average of 24 Str7 ap-4 2 damage shots. That's substantial, especially on a 3 wound T5 infantry unit that arrives anywhere from reserves.

They need Strat or character support to keep them from exploding, however.

Str 8 on the overcharge, no?

[Ishagu]

Str7, their regular power is 6 I believe.

 

Edit: Never mind, I'm wrong. Well, this makes the Plasma more attractive in my mind for sure.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Ishagu

[Panzer]

Str7, their regular power is 6 I believe.

 

Edit: Never mind, I'm wrong. Well, this makes the Plasma more attractive in my mind for sure.

 

Also only AP-3. You got two mistakes there. ^^

[Dracos]

Doesn’t the turn two doctrine bump AP ?

[Panzer]

It does but that's a situational buff unless you want to stick with the Tactical Doctrine for the whole game.