Tau win NOVA

[Closet Skeleton]

 

It is conjecture, but I HONESTLY believe that the only reason you dont see more Tau in the top 3 is because the top-top players just find their playstyle too dull.  There's nothing new, exciting or challenging.  So, I believe more top players dont bother with them.    

 

 

I doubt it, its more that the triple Riptide list just isn't THAT good, its a top tier list but at the bottom of that tier. I've never been at the top tables at a tournament but encountered that list several times on the low and mid tables.

 

Its very easy to lose all 30 shield drones in the first turn. I've never managed to take them out due to bad luck but my opponents remarked on that being unusual.

 

SMS is annoying but 3 riptides just don't have enough SMS shots for them to have that much effect.

 

I've crushed Tau with Genestealer Cult (it was a 1 riptide and broadside spam list which is actually in theory better than riptide spam and my Cult build is mid tier at best), the Cult has too many ways around overwatch for T'au sept to be the perfect counter to them.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[Ishagu]

But they are pretty dull to play. All the synergies involve castling up.

 

The rules from drones should be re-worked or scrapped, and more onus given to close range, pressure units like Ghost Keels and Stealth Suits.

[The Yncarne]

But they are pretty dull to play. All the synergies involve castling up.

 

The rules from drones should be re-worked or scrapped, and more onus given to close range, pressure units like Ghost Keels and Stealth Suits.

 

While I agree the auras and stratagems encourage castles, I don't think emphasizing units with 18" max range is going to help the Tau play style.  There needs to be more movement; whether more M value or some pseudo jump-shoot-jump, I don't know, but keeping things as they are won't make units with moderate damage output better.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, I think a new codex with lots of revision is what is needed. Not a straightforward FAQ adjustment.

[Closet Skeleton]

The boringness is a strategic advantage, it puts you in a situation the opponent has more opportunities to make mistakes than the Tau player.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were potentially more powerful mobile Tau builds that just aren't going to win a 200 player event because they need to be played perfectly to use that advantage.

[Ishagu]

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

[Vermintide]

I could be wrong, I've only seen them played and haven't played against them since their initial release (screw you Danny), but I think Tau just seem to have an answer to everything- Their weaknesses aren't really weaknesses.

 

Poor accuracy? Markerlights. Weight of fire. Weak in close combat? FTGG. Weight of fire. Fragile units? Shield drones. Weight of fire.

 

What are their actual vulnerabilities?

 

Grats to the player though, I'm sure he faced stiff competition.

[chapter master 454]

 

The red-herring/strawman echoed by yourself - That the Tau codex is poorly designed in that it has a single playstyle - is not being debated (Though the degree to which people find that single playstyle boring may be). 

The argument is that the strongest, most viable, most successful (by a long way) and therefore most ubiquitous build available to the army is frustrating, un-fun and generally overpowered to play against  - and furthermore that's directly tied to the drone mechanic. 

 

 

And we had the exact same complaints being leveled at imperial soup where people were running Castellan, smash captains and the loyal 32. It was un-interactive due to how characters work, his invulnerable save making him nigh-impossible to get a clean hit on and the high damage output he could muster was insane while not counting what the castellan would be doing. All the while the list had generally plenty of bodies to throw around the board (with I believe most just running some amount of intercessors and the guardsmen) to get objectives while the all-stars just went about the board with impunity.

Took two changes to fix that with any modicum of effect with one not being a specific fix to the unit itself but instead a broad game wide check of invulnerable saves to ensure no-one could get better than 3++ and knights being further capped at 4++.

 

Again the issue is tournament level playing will not entertain divergence. Shield Drones have gone from completely pointless and were actually worse than gun drones at the job and now they actually perform the job. I will agree they are stacked as all get out but people clammer for kneecaps to be removed, not actual balancing.

My preference here if you are to deal with shield drones would be again a fairly system wide change to the bodyguard rule where instead of checking to intercept at after wounding, you check after hitting and likely make it a variable check (though I think universal 3+ to work would be best) and thus would not require shield drones be so disgustingly resilient! (ha, humour). Because that 5+++ that they have is the deal breaker and was a band-aid fix for their pointless nature (which prior, they were ablative wounds that cost the same as gun drones which would do better in all cases because now the opponent would have a reason to target the drones).

 

However my core argument is that it appears that everytime something wins a tournament, it turns into doomsaying. Never a "cool to see that win" but always "wow...scumbag list wins...X needs nerfed"...seriously. What? do we expect people to go to tournaments with fluffy lists and intend to just play for fun? Its a tournament and you play to win (and have fun) but when you want to be number 1 you throw fun out the window and find the most broken things you can. At this point, I think people look at tournaments for their next witch-hunt with the grand prize being the new enemy number 1. I will assure you that if grav-turions return to being top tier we will see people clamouring for their nerf instead of being happy marines got something. My argument is that everytime someone wins a tournament, their list is the new witch to burn.

[NatBrannigan]

Burning Witches you say? I'll fetch the Templar players.

[Ishagu]

Oh I don't think the Tau are overpoweringly broken or anything like that.

 

I'm seeing more of them, and with each game against them I dislike them more and more.

 

Just really... Not fun

[Closet Skeleton]

I wish drones were still just part of units and it was only gun ones that came in massive clumps.

 

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

 

Eldar flyer spam is still a bigger offender there than anything Tau.

 

Thousand Sons characters hiding behind plague bearers isn't fun either but is at least melee and mortal wound focused and therefore a shake up.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[The Yncarne]

I believe there was a Mech tau player that finished 12th at Nova. That’s respectable.

 

I’m not sold on markerlights. T0nkaTruckDriver ran the points per markerlights elsewhere.

 

Stationary Pathfinder: 16pts

Shationary Shas'ui: 20pts

Stationary/Mobile Marker Drone (near Drone Controller): 20pts

Mobile Pathfinder: 24pts

Mobile Shas'ui: 30pts

Stationary/Mobile Marker Drone (without Drone Controller): 30pts

Stationary Tetra: 35.3pts

Stationary Marksman: 37.5pts

Mobile Marksman: 50pts

Stationary Fireblade: 50.4pts

Mobile Tetra: 53pts

Stationary Darkstrider: 54pts

Mobile Fireblade: 63pts

Mobile Darkstrider: 67.5pts

 

My experience is cadre fireblades are about the only worthwhile platform. Those are limited by numbers. Also, in a MSU meta, markerlight enhancements are limited in utility - you really want to focus on big targets. You really want that +1 to hit, but that’s five hits needed and I just don’t get that often.

 

In any event, I think GW believes players are getting lots of market light hits every turn and price everything else accordingly.

 

Mostly, I hate gun lines and long for the days of Mech infantry being a fun army to play.

[USNCenturion]

I have a burning hatred for Tau from 5th and more intensely 6th. I’m therefore never going to defend against their slaughter, nerfing, and depictions of defeat in art of seemingly every codex.

 

-BUUUUUUT-

 

Good for the player that won. That list is what Tau is supposed to be. They have range, power, mobility when needed; it’s their right to castle and not their fault they can shoot you when you come close.

 

I agree it’s jealousy and angst against a tournament winner and faction. Could drones be toned down a bit? Sure. They’ll still have them in some capacity anyway so who cares. Overwatch shenanigans have always been a Tau tool so that shouldn’t change either. They literally have a nerf chastity belt locked to them with the commander limit; something no other faction has.

 

Congratulate the winner, move on, and find better ways to deal with a Tau gunline.

[PeteySödes]

There is a sort of precedent for factions winning the big Majors getting the nerf bat. It'll be interesting to see the response.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

[cries in Necron]

[Exilyth]

Anyone got a more detailed batrep of that Tau vs. GSC match?

[Vermintide]

 

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

[cries in Necron]

 

 

Ey, Necrons have plenty of fun. You just have to bring fun things, instead of 30 tesla immortals 3 doomsday arks.

 

Tide of kamikaze scarabs anyone?

 

[Claws and Effect]

Told my 8 year old son that Tau won NOVA. He was excited because he's been interested in Tau for a while now.

 

He doesn't know it yet, but he's getting a small force of them for his birthday. Works out for everyone because I'm incorporating them into my AOP board.

 

Me personally, I despise Tau. But I'm not going to tell my son he can't like them or give him flak for playing them. I'll give my adult friends good natured ribbing over it, but not my son.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Claws and Effect

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

 

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

[cries in Necron]

 

 

Ey, Necrons have plenty of fun. You just have to bring fun things, instead of 30 tesla immortals 3 doomsday arks.

 

Tide of kamikaze scarabs anyone?

 

 

Good thing I only have 10 tesla Immortals and 0 Doomsday Arks then.

 

And more Scarabs than I know what to do with.

[Vermintide]

 

 

 

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

[cries in Necron]

 

 

Ey, Necrons have plenty of fun. You just have to bring fun things, instead of 30 tesla immortals 3 doomsday arks.

 

Tide of kamikaze scarabs anyone?

 

 

Good thing I only have 10 tesla Immortals and 0 Doomsday Arks then.

 

And more Scarabs than I know what to do with.

 

 

I can only conclude that your lack of fun is your own fault, then.

 

I bet you're the type of player who says oldcrons were boring because they had no fluff

[Aothaine]

I like the Tau. And nearly every army has some form of castle list. Castle lists are good because 40k favors shooting. Something else that favors shooting is real life. Look at combat across the world now. Almost no country, military, unit or soldier wants to get into melee combat with their enemy.

 

Some of the things that GW has done to address this is making objectives more important. Castling up in 40k is a difficult decision to make. Your betting on your army being able to wipe out the opponent and go for a point grab at the end. Smart playing will always beat this strategy. A castle's biggest weakness is playing the mission. But if you bring an army with the same goal in mind, wipe out the enemy, don't expect to have a good time with your all melee rush list. Can you still win? Yes. Will it be easy? No. 

 

Regardless of the different play-styles of the different armies I think castling is a valid and fun strategy to be employed and is realistic. So is screening, or scout units. The game is in a very good state for most armies in the game right now and I think most people are failing to realize this. Competitive play is important and balancing needs to happen for competitive play for sure. But I personally feel that people should look into ways to beat a play-style rather than just say it is boring.  I don't think anyone is bad for feeling that way, but there are tons of ways to make every game fun. 

 

I know you all can do it too! :D

[Bat33.1]

Anyone got a more detailed batrep of that Tau vs. GSC match?

Join Warhammer TV on twitch with Amazon Prime - you get one free sub per month or pay $5 for the month and the full game is available to watch 

[Panzer]

 

 

Lol no faction should be intentionally boring to play with or against.

[cries in Necron]

 

 

Ey, Necrons have plenty of fun. You just have to bring fun things, instead of 30 tesla immortals 3 doomsday arks.

 

Tide of kamikaze scarabs anyone?

 

 

 

So do T'au. You can easily build a super mobile T'au list that's constantly within 18" of the opponent instead of a castle T'au list. It's just not the strongest so nobody does for tournaments. 

[Dracos]

I think shield drones need a nerf.

 

This is knee jerk reaction. Might as well be nerfing the core elements of Jim Vasal's Chaos army that's been dominating.

 

 ... and then you have to entirely revamp the Codex. One player is having success way above the mean for the Faction doesn't mean it needs a nerf. Only a pilot skilled at playing this list over a long period of times is going to have this result. 

 

I love following and listening to the podcast of the top tournament players but when looking at army composition and balancing the game we need to look more toward the average.

 

This isn't like when the Knight Codex came out. Tau are competitive but not overly so especially compared to Imperial Soup. Matter of fact the Meta is shifting and Marines are going to be part of that. Tau, Ork, GSC all take very good pilots to get top results as opposed to Imperial, Eldar and Chaos Soups that are vert point and click (the last two less than the first. 

 

PS: NOVA mission and terrain rules are a bit unique so using it as a hard point can be a bit unfair. It's plays different than ITC or ETC. So keep that in mind.

[Redcomet]

Oh I don't think the Tau are overpoweringly broken or anything like that.

I'm seeing more of them, and with each game against them I dislike them more and more.

Just really... Not fun

Well maybe if the army had more than one viable play style for competitive play... but alas the game punishing armies for moving about, and the Tau codex being mediocre, puts a stop to that...