Tau win NOVA

[Closet Skeleton]

I'm of the opinion that Punishers should have been nerfed down to 15 shots when Grinding Advance was introduced but S5-6 AP-2 D2 is essentially the perfect generalist weapon profile while Ap0 D1 is a specialised horde killer so they aren't comparable weapons. Same Reason why Avenger Gatling cannons are superior in every way to a battle cannon.

 

Its the fact that they aren't useless against vehicles that makes relying on Riptides viable. Riptides are amazing at killing Primaris but if that was all they were really good at you couldn't spend over half your points on them and win a 5 wound tournament.

[Panzer]

I'm of the opinion that Punishers should have been nerfed down to 15 shots when Grinding Advance was introduced but S5-6 AP-2 D2 is essentially the perfect generalist weapon profile while Ap0 D1 is a specialised horde killer so they aren't comparable weapons. Same Reason why Avenger Gatling cannons are superior in every way to a battle cannon.

 

Its the fact that they aren't useless against vehicles that makes relying on Riptides viable. Riptides are amazing at killing Primaris but if that was all they were really good at you couldn't spend over half your points on them and win a 5 wound tournament.

 

I think as I've shown that the Punisher Gatling is not just good against hordes. It's also better against medium infantry and Marines (including Primaris). It's heavy infantry where the Punisher Gatling starts falling behind the Riptides ATS Nova HBC (and is still better than the ATS HBC without Nova boost).

 

Also the HBC Riptide isn't really better against vehicles either.

damage of ATS HBC Riptide / ATS Nova HBC Riptide / 2 GA Punishers against:

T7 Sv3+: 2.67 / 4 / 4.44

T8 Sv2+: 2 / 3 / 2.22

[PeteySödes]

That's the problem, technically you can put a big Tau suit behind short wall, surrounding it with drones that can't be shot.

 

Now you can only wound it reliably with limited high strength weapons, and the drones cannot be a target for your more numerous guns.

 

This is my experience as well, aggravated by ITC 1st floor rules.

[Commander Dawnstar]

We've got a faction ranking breakdown from NOVA now and it seems the average T'au placement was slightly below the overall tournament average.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Commander Dawnstar

[Ishagu]

Yeah, lots of Tau lose because they play TOO defensively. The same problem the old Ultramarines + Guilliman lists had. You Castle up, you kill stuff, but you lose the mission.

 

It's very possibe to perfrom well in mission objectives, the winning Tau player did so by flooding the board with Shield Drones and less suits.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I'm not trying to make an argument. I just think it's interesting that they produced the winning list while otherwise performing below the average.

 

Does make one wonder how their fortunes might change if we see more of a shift towards that style of list.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Commander Dawnstar

[PeteySödes]

We've got a faction ranking breakdown from NOVA now and it seems the average T'au placement was slightly below the overall tournament average.

 

Great data, thanks for sharing!

[Ishagu]

I should point out again that I don't feel Tau are over-powered. They are just very unsatisfying to play against and that's why I feel the codex needs a re-work.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Whenever I play Tau, I use a lot of Shield Drones to take wounds too but my pals have all learned to shoot the Drones first with just volume. Then work on the Suits with Heavy Weapons.

 

Did the the Tau opponents not know this or was there some other trick to somehow obscuring the Drones?

 

Yes, amongst other things he uses assault to do things like 3-point an enemy unit with the drones so nobody can shoot at them. If the opponent sees this coming they should be able to deal with it but the surprise effect of an aggressive assault Tau list is too much for some people!

[Happy-inquisitor]

I'm not trying to make an argument. I just think it's interesting that they produced the winning list while otherwise performing below the average.

 

Does make one wonder how their fortunes might change if we see more of a shift towards that style of list.

 

It is less the style of list and more the style of play. It is hard for some players to come out of their shells and play Tau with the right level of aggression. I spent most of the last year conditioning myself to play aggressive Tau so I do understand how tempting it is to be over-passive. Also the aggressive game requires superb movement and positioning skill especially when facing something with every deployment trick in the book like GSC - I understand and applaud the skill the winner needed to have.

 

Tau do not have a particularly tricky skill floor, you can do OK with them without a huge level of skill. They do however have a very high skill ceiling, if you keep developing your skills with them you will keep getting better results. What we saw at Nova was a couple of Tau players in the top bracket who have been refining and playing essentially the same lists against some serious competition for long enough to now have real list fluency and skill with their army. At more average skill levels it appears that Tau will turn in slightly below average results.

[Aothaine]

 

This is my experience as well, aggravated by ITC 1st floor rules.

 

I personally view this as a tactical limitation by the non-T'au player honestly. When building lists for a competitive environment you need to keep in mind that these lists exist and plan for ways to handle them. Indirect fire from a Whirlwind will make short work of drones. You can now also use drop pods or Any unit with fast movement and high rate of fire. 

 

List of units that shred drones:

 

Whirlwind / Drop poding in units / Blood Angel Jump pack units / Storm Ravens (hell any of the flyers)

Coldstar / units with the missle pods that don't require LoS

Harpy / Gargoyles / Genestealers

 

This is just a quick list of units that can counter drones. There are tons of units that do this. So saying that drones need to be nerfed seems like a rushed snap decision imho and feels like people are bemoaning a unit that is balanced and working correctly and fairly.

 

Anyway, I am not trying to insult anyone. But if you want to play ITC you're working in a competitive environment. Come prepared.

[PeteySödes]

 

 

This is my experience as well, aggravated by ITC 1st floor rules.

 

I personally view this as a tactical limitation by the non-T'au player honestly. When building lists for a competitive environment you need to keep in mind that these lists exist and plan for ways to handle them. Indirect fire from a Whirlwind will make short work of drones. You can now also use drop pods or Any unit with fast movement and high rate of fire. 

 

List of units that shred drones:

 

Whirlwind / Drop poding in units / Blood Angel Jump pack units / Storm Ravens (hell any of the flyers)

Coldstar / units with the missle pods that don't require LoS

Harpy / Gargoyles / Genestealers

 

This is just a quick list of units that can counter drones. There are tons of units that do this. So saying that drones need to be nerfed seems like a rushed snap decision imho and feels like people are bemoaning a unit that is balanced and working correctly and fairly.

 

Anyway, I am not trying to insult anyone. But if you want to play ITC you're working in a competitive environment. Come prepared.

 

 

All i said was that i've seen the situation that Ishagu mentioned and that it's one that is benefitted by the ITC rules. Not sure why your conflating the nerf talk with my post.

[Aothaine]

 

 

All i said was that i've seen the situation that Ishagu mentioned and that it's one that is benefitted by the ITC rules. Not sure why your conflating the nerf talk with my post.

 

 

I realize now that I should have added something else to my post. I was only using your comment for a point of reference for anyone on the nerf drones side of the convo. I meant no ill will towards you PeteySödes. I apologize if I've offended you.

 

Edit: Corrected my statement. I hope that it is not offensive in anyway. :D

Edited September 6, 2019 by Aothaine

[PeteySödes]

 

 

 

All i said was that i've seen the situation that Ishagu mentioned and that it's one that is benefitted by the ITC rules. Not sure why your conflating the nerf talk with my post.

 

 

I realize now that I should have added something else to my post. I was only using your comment for a point of reference for anyone on the nerf drones side of the convo. I meant no ill will towards you PeteySödes. I apologize if I've offended you.

 

Edit: Corrected my statement. I hope that it is not offensive in anyway.

 

 

As long as people think i lose because im underpowered and not a bad player, no worries. :D

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Lol that was a good one Petey. :D

[Waking Dreamer]

This has inspired me to complete the FSE army with The Eight and go for the win too!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d love to see that army.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We've got a faction ranking breakdown from NOVA now and it seems the average T'au placement was slightly below the overall tournament average.

Wow Khorne is really really good now .

[PeteySödes]

 

We've got a faction ranking breakdown from NOVA now and it seems the average T'au placement was slightly below the overall tournament average.

Wow Khorne is really really good now .

Based on stats alone it’s only one player. I wasn’t there so I don’t disagree, but just from that info we don’t know their matchups. A CC army like that could get pretty lucky in who they draw and just steamroll.

[Commander Dawnstar]

This is the Khorne list for anyone interested.

[Closet Skeleton]

Based on stats alone it’s only one player. I wasn’t there so I don’t disagree, but just from that info we don’t know their matchups. A CC army like that could get pretty lucky in who they draw and just steamroll.

 

 

Player? Are you not sure its not just Khorne himself that showed up.

[Tyriks]

The Khorne list also placed only a little above average so not that good.