Rules preview for Iron Father Feirros

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

For your perusal: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/12/preview-iron-father-feirrosgw-homepage-post-2/

[9x19 Parabellum]

Good god.  So in addition to being a CC beast, his buffs are:

-5++ to all IH units within 6"

-grants BS 2+ to 1 IH unit within 3" for shooting phase

-repairs 1 vehicle for auto 3 wounds instead of d3

 

I"m guessing he'll come in at about 160 pts.   Thoughts?

[Dark Legionnare]

Good god.  So in addition to being a CC beast, his buffs are:

-5++ to all IH units within 6"

-grants BS 2+ to 1 IH unit within 3" for shooting phase

-repairs 1 vehicle for auto 3 wounds instead of d3

 

I"m guessing he'll come in at about 160 pts.   Thoughts?

That seems pretty much around where I'd expect.

 

Dude is basically made to babysit a dread (or a couple) waddling up the field.  Also, the fact that he has a super signum, ie, the entire unit gets 2+ BS, not just one model like devastator squad, is intense.  Cast that puppy on a Dakka Repulsor, or a big hellblaster squad, etc... for insane firepower amounts. 

 

In terms of non-relic units, I think a big winner for him, is hanging out with a dakka redemptor (alone or more than 1) all game long. Pretty scary, stupid hard to shift with a combo of his repair, the double wound track counts-as, & the stratagem to reduce damage taken by dreads.  I'll definitely be bringing the redemptor as basically his "bodyguard" for many games.

 

EDIT:

I see now that I should have probably read the whole page, other than just the bit of fluff and rules. Pretty much exactly what I said above about the redemptor, the article did too. And here I was being all excited about thinking of fun tactics. :B

Edited September 12, 2019 by Dark Legionnare

[Panzer]

I guess with this IH Dreadnoughts will be truly unkillable lol

[Aothaine]

He is damn good. Really damn good. :D I'm super happy for you Iron Hands players. Hell I'm starting to think about crossing over. This guy is a beast! Also, everyone knows painting black and metal is super easy... and I'm really really lazy lol! 

 

Regardless of my decision though... I'm so happy for every Iron Hands player that has played them for years! Finally getting some good stuff you deserve!

[Rodrick]

crazy good , invul save was one of the weaknesses of IH vehicles,   every thing else is  a very good plus

[Iron Father Ferrum]

His lore is so counter-intuitive it's nuts. An Iron Hands Techmarine who *resists* swapping flesh for steel? Dumb, dumb, dumb. It would have been better from a storytelling perspective to make him Stronos' antithesis, especially since he's so old; this would created dramatic tension between the old-school "flesh is literally weak" Iron Hands and the new Stronosian "we need a soul" faction.

[TrawlingCleaner]

His Signum mixed with the psychic power of +1 to hit for vehicles is going to be crazy. You really don't need a captain anymore if you don't want it

[Panzer]

His lore is so counter-intuitive it's nuts. An Iron Hands Techmarine who *resists* swapping flesh for steel? Dumb, dumb, dumb. It would have been better from a storytelling perspective to make him Stronos' antithesis, especially since he's so old; this would created dramatic tension between the old-school "flesh is literally weak" Iron Hands and the new Stronosian "we need a soul" faction.

 

Yeah I was thinking that as well but it kinda makes sense to have such a character around to go through the Rubicon Primaris I guess.

[Xerxus]

This guy plus a lieutenant with the relic, set them up with whichever assortment of vehicles turns out to be the most efficient and it's all downhill from there.

[Morovir]

The only advantage to Sapphire King being delayed is that Guymer will have time to write Feirros in and retcon his previous two books to account for GW's latest lore screw-up.

[Ishagu]

Congratulations guys. You have the best character, and likely the strongest chapter. Move over Guilliman, this guy is way more useful.

 

I am officially blaming the Iron Hands for the cost increase of my Repulsors in the latest codex!

 

 

As for his cost, 200 should be about right.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Ishagu

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

His lore is so counter-intuitive it's nuts. An Iron Hands Techmarine who *resists* swapping flesh for steel? Dumb, dumb, dumb. It would have been better from a storytelling perspective to make him Stronos' antithesis, especially since he's so old; this would created dramatic tension between the old-school "flesh is literally weak" Iron Hands and the new Stronosian "we need a soul" faction.

 

Ah, but it conveniently provides an explanation for the comparative lack of bionics in current Primaris Iron Hands, and that was probably half the point (he said cynically).

 

EDIT: And not just "an Iron Hands Techmarine" but the Master of the Freakin' Forge! Having an Iron Hands Master of the Forge being resistant to bionic augmentation is sort of like having the captain of a soccer team be resistant to running.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lord Nord

[Rodrick]

 

His lore is so counter-intuitive it's nuts. An Iron Hands Techmarine who *resists* swapping flesh for steel? Dumb, dumb, dumb. It would have been better from a storytelling perspective to make him Stronos' antithesis, especially since he's so old; this would created dramatic tension between the old-school "flesh is literally weak" Iron Hands and the new Stronosian "we need a soul" faction.

 

Ah, but it conveniently provides an explanation for the comparative lack of bionics in current Primaris Iron Hands, and that was probably half the point (he said cynically).

 

EDIT: And not just "an Iron Hands Techmarine" but the Master of the Freakin' Forge! Having an Iron Hands Master of the Forge being resistant to bionic augmentation is sort of like having the captain of a soccer team be resistant to running.

 

 

 

dont forget that ferrus manus was not sold on bionic augmentation, he was more moderate in that subject 

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

His lore is so counter-intuitive it's nuts. An Iron Hands Techmarine who *resists* swapping flesh for steel? Dumb, dumb, dumb. It would have been better from a storytelling perspective to make him Stronos' antithesis, especially since he's so old; this would created dramatic tension between the old-school "flesh is literally weak" Iron Hands and the new Stronosian "we need a soul" faction.

 

Ah, but it conveniently provides an explanation for the comparative lack of bionics in current Primaris Iron Hands, and that was probably half the point (he said cynically).

 

EDIT: And not just "an Iron Hands Techmarine" but the Master of the Freakin' Forge! Having an Iron Hands Master of the Forge being resistant to bionic augmentation is sort of like having the captain of a soccer team be resistant to running.

 

 

 

dont forget that ferrus manus was not sold on bionic augmentation, he was more moderate in that subject 

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

I can't remember the  short from HH books' name, but I remember it well.  IH fighting Eldar, and at a couple points where they're obsessing over replacing stuffs with augmetics, Ferrus is just like "No, don't obsess, we need to be people, ultimately, not machines."  or something of that extent. Definitely paraphrasing.

[Khornestar]

Love everything about him! Point cost will temper that excitement but he looks so damn cool I frankly don't care.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

His lore is so counter-intuitive it's nuts. An Iron Hands Techmarine who *resists* swapping flesh for steel? Dumb, dumb, dumb. It would have been better from a storytelling perspective to make him Stronos' antithesis, especially since he's so old; this would created dramatic tension between the old-school "flesh is literally weak" Iron Hands and the new Stronosian "we need a soul" faction.

 

Ah, but it conveniently provides an explanation for the comparative lack of bionics in current Primaris Iron Hands, and that was probably half the point (he said cynically).

 

EDIT: And not just "an Iron Hands Techmarine" but the Master of the Freakin' Forge! Having an Iron Hands Master of the Forge being resistant to bionic augmentation is sort of like having the captain of a soccer team be resistant to running.

 

 

 

dont forget that ferrus manus was not sold on bionic augmentation, he was more moderate in that subject 

 

 

No chance of me forgetting that, but we're talking about the Master of the Freakin' Forge here. If there's ONE Iron Hand who should be counted on to embody the whole "Flesh is Weak" motto, it should be their Master of the Forge. It's a little tough to believe that someone could rise to - and maintain - that rank while having such a "balanced" position on the effectiveness of bionics. If he was Master of the Forge for another chapter, then maybe. But he's the Iron Hands Master of the Forge. In the 41st Millennium, ten thousand years after Ferrus last uttered an opinion on the matter. During that time, the Iron Hands have drastically increased their adherence to the motto, rather than entertaining philosophical debate about it (outside of whatever Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm-- oops, I mean "Kardan Stronos" -- has to say on the matter). And remember, Feirros has been in a senior leadership position in this flesh-unfriendly environment since before Stronos ever made sergeant.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lord Nord

[emperorpants]

I'll just straight up say it: as of now Iron hands seem straight up broken.  lol.  They are so much better then everyone else it's kinda comical.  Please don't take offense guys, I'm not trying to be salty.  What I don't understand is why did G-Mans aura get nerfed if they were going to hand out this kind of stuff?  Honestly, Iron Hands would still be heads and shoulders above Ultras even if G-Man had his old aura.  Congrats guys, I'm happy for you! It's a good time to be an Iron Hand, and honestly Iron Hands deserve to be on top for once.  Just be prepared for incredible amounts of salt from people, as an Ultra player who used G-Man I know what it's like to have people salty over your rules.  lol.

[Rodrick]

I'll just straight up say it: as of now Iron hands seem straight up broken.  lol.  They are so much better then everyone else it's kinda comical.  Please don't take offense guys, I'm not trying to be salty.  What I don't understand is why did G-Mans aura get nerfed if they were going to hand out this kind of stuff?  Honestly, Iron Hands would still be heads and shoulders above Ultras even if G-Man had his old aura.  Congrats guys, I'm happy for you! It's a good time to be an Iron Hand, and honestly Iron Hands deserve to be on top for once.  Just be prepared for incredible amounts of salt from people, as an Ultra player who used G-Man I know what it's like to have people salty over your rules.  lol.

 

full reroll wound is still more broken than anything new from ironhands

[TrawlingCleaner]

I'll just straight up say it: as of now Iron hands seem straight up broken. lol. They are so much better then everyone else it's kinda comical. Please don't take offense guys, I'm not trying to be salty. What I don't understand is why did G-Mans aura get nerfed if they were going to hand out this kind of stuff? Honestly, Iron Hands would still be heads and shoulders above Ultras even if G-Man had his old aura. Congrats guys, I'm happy for you! It's a good time to be an Iron Hand, and honestly Iron Hands deserve to be on top for once. Just be prepared for incredible amounts of salt from people, as an Ultra player who used G-Man I know what it's like to have people salty over your rules. lol.

I definitely wouldn't say broken. Crazy strong, yes for sure. Characters fill the gaps that space marines (especially vehicles) have, ie: invulns and reducing damage. There's plenty of synergy but once you kill the characters, the whole plan falls apart. Snipers will be the bane of IH I think, as we have no way of passing off wounds etc

 

Just as with DE and GSC, they're very strong but have hard counters

[Ishagu]

 

 

I'll just straight up say it: as of now Iron hands seem straight up broken. lol. They are so much better then everyone else it's kinda comical. Please don't take offense guys, I'm not trying to be salty. What I don't understand is why did G-Mans aura get nerfed if they were going to hand out this kind of stuff? Honestly, Iron Hands would still be heads and shoulders above Ultras even if G-Man had his old aura. Congrats guys, I'm happy for you! It's a good time to be an Iron Hand, and honestly Iron Hands deserve to be on top for once. Just be prepared for incredible amounts of salt from people, as an Ultra player who used G-Man I know what it's like to have people salty over your rules. lol.

full reroll wound is still more broken than anything new from ironhands

It used to be, but now with the increase in weapon power, AP, and the reduction of the effectiveness of modifiers the new Iron Hands are stronger than Ultras ever were with Guilliman in the old Codex, easily.

[ThatOneMarshal]

GW making up for years of neglect in a single book lol.

 

I definitely feel like this guys rules are a way for GW to say that they’re sorry.

 

Lore wise he’s interesting, maybe the new book will better explain his stance?

[MajorNese]

Well well well, what do we have here...a "ridiculously broken" codex, right before the codex is even released? Haven't seen that one since...well, last released codex.

 

Yes, it seems like IH challenge UM as the straight-forward approach to gunning everything down. Previously, putting any firepower around Gman was the easiest and most reliable way for that, head and shoulders above any other C:SM group. Now UM and IH share half of their doctrine bonus (moving heavies without penalty), and the other half is just a captain's reroll, nothing close to Gman's old bubble of ultimate rerolls. The skies were similarly falling when UM were announced, with all the buffs they can stack on humble bolters/bolt rifles which always RF across the board with considerable AP.

 

In that way - we should enjoy ourselves until the codex actually hits. Or GW sends out the next update - after all, the Astartes of the Month crowd entirely departed IH with the end of 7th edition. I guess that will happen again. For those who don't want to change too much in the meantime:

 

[emperorpants]

I mean, it's everything added together that makes iron hands better than gman ever was. All these defensive buffs on top of the offensive buffs. I had to choose between gmans old buff and current iron hands buffs I'd take iron hands in a heart beat. Amazing relic, amazing character, an amazing stratagem so far, etc. That's also not even counting the stratagems we haven't seen yet, which most likely are just as amazing as everything else. Think about that: Iron hands are right now widely being considered the strongest chapter over chapters with their full supplement....and we haven't even seen what the iron hands full abilities are yet. Again, i think its awesome! Enjoy it! Iron hands players deserve it. It's your turn in the sun, and that's Awesome! But let's be honest about how powerful it really is. Which is to say far above anything that any other chapter has gotten. Just look at the raven guard. While powerful, in comparison they kinda got shafted. But someone has to be the best, and now it's your turn. :) Again, enjoy it! Revel in it! Marines are back after taking it on the chin for most of 8th. Purge that xenos filth brothers, and kick chaos square in their tentaclely bits while you are at it. :)

[MajorNese]

All these defensive buffs on top of the offensive buffs. I had to choose between gmans old buff and current iron hands buffs I'd take iron hands in a heart beat. Amazing relic, amazing character, an amazing stratagem so far, etc.

[...]

Just look at the raven guard. While powerful, in comparison they kinda got shafted.

The problem with previews is, they are very very far away from complete.

In case of RG, they were rather badly chosen. The WL trait is the exact same as in the codex (yes, both old and the V2). The relic is the previous one, with a slight improvement.

By this standard, IH would suck too. Reprinting their WL trait (to-hit of 6 = extra attack) and slightly improving their Axe of Medusa (which is nearly identical to a relic blade) would be similarly uninspiring - I'd guess the internet would say "If you have captains and don't move, their entire doctrine buff is worthless". And comparing a previewed character to one that hasn't even been previewed is not possible at all, so the skies may be falling again tomorrow.

 

So yes - until all supplements are out in full, any judgement is rather a first look.

IH most certainly look usable (unlike before) and actually drive home their theme. Previous rules/relic/trait/strat were entirely uninspiring in that regard. Not to mention their incredible selection of named characters...oh, wait.