Is Tor Garadon the first Primaris Hellfury?

[Captain Idaho]

No, because Calgar, Captains, Nu Fist etc are in Gravis armour.

 

Compare:

 

Terminators - heavy infantry with shooting and power fists. Requires an expensive transport as doesn't fit into the smaller ones. Elite characters wear it.

 

Aggressors - heavy infantry with shooting and power fists. Requires an expensive transport as doesn't fit into the smaller ones. Elite characters wear it.

 

***

 

Have we got a complete separation from what is intended? Hard to say but I'd say no. GW intended Aggressors as shock troops, so they upped their attacks and wounds to make up for what they were lacking.

 

Sounds like Terminator squads to me.

[Panzer]

Honestly that's all just a lot of "what if's" and "maybe's". My actual opinion is that Aggressors are Aggressors, Terminators are Terminators, Centurions are Centurions. Three separate things that don't replace eachother.

 

Though I definitely disagree on Aggressors as shock troops. That's probably the last thing they are.

[Ishagu]

Aggressors have a lot more in common with Terminators than they have different, right down to the way they interact with transports.

 

They aren't a 1:1 comparison, but neither is any other Primaris unit to any other traditional unit.

 

The Repulsor (regular variant) probably has most in common with a Landraider, actually - acting as a mix between Godhammer and Crusader patterns.

[Cap'm Heckus]

My hope is that “Hellfury”s are something with some punch like Melta-inceptors or onslaught-hellblasters.

 

Reivers could be fixed by moving them to troops or FA (they certainly aren’t elite) and/or improving their weapon options like they did for intercessors. If a reiver sgt or 1-in-5 could take a power axe or melta bombs they’d be more attractive.

[Panzer]

My hope is that “Hellfury”s are something with some punch like Melta-inceptors or onslaught-hellblasters.

 

Reivers could be fixed by moving them to troops or FA (they certainly aren’t elite) and/or improving their weapon options like they did for intercessors. If a reiver sgt or 1-in-5 could take a power axe or melta bombs they’d be more attractive.

Moving them to Fast Attack would change literally nothing about their situation. Potentially even making them worse since we have more Elite slots in a Battalion than Fast Attack slots.

[Cap'm Heckus]

True. Still, they need better weapons. Especially with their carbine being further marginalized by the assault Bolter update. I think the heavy pistol gets underrated sometimes but they definitely need a power weapon in assault.

[Claws and Effect]

A 3 man squad of Aggressors has 13 power fist attacks on the charge. It's plenty punchy if you want it to be.

 

My Raven Guard can deep strike them with a Strategem. I've taken to dropping them with a Chaplain and lighting a unit up in the shooting phase before sending them in to beat to death anything that survives the barrage.

[Boldthreat]

I think Tor Garadon and the Iron Father are a good indicator of what might be coming with more Gravis units. The shoulder mounted weaponry is great and I hope the Hellfurries are in a similar vein. My gut tells me the Hell part of their name implies plasma weaponry. Two shoulder mounted heavy plasma incinerators? What are their arms doing? I say add more plasma. Make 3 of these guys walking up the field a serious problem. Expensive, but fury of Hell indeed.

 

On the Terminator front... it seems now more than ever that Gravis is the Terminator replacement for Primaris. Heck, take Garadons armor, drop the shoulder stuff and add a twin linked assault bolter and that would be pretty damned close in look and capability. The only reason I find that not feasible is because Aggressors are a thing, and have an additional power fist! So I don’t know what the Gravis troop will be, but I would be shocked if it had a traditional terminator load out.

 

We have:

 

Gravis Heavy Support - Aggressors

Gravis Fast Attack - Inceptors

 

We know about:

 

Gravis Heavy Support - Hellfuries. We *think it’s Gravis, based on how they are referenced alongside hellblasters and eliminators. We could be wrong.

 

So we have a troop unit missing. I don’t think they will be swinging power fists. Some kind of bolt gun yes. I’m thinking chainswords and shields of some kind with a shoulder mounted bolt gun. The anti reiver/incursor. Maybe a backpack mounted blind grenade launcher. Forgive me I’m wishlisting. Gravis units have me excited based on what we are seeing with the characters.

 

The only thing that has me holding out for Primaris Terminators is how GW was choosing to paint them and incorporate them into the battle companies as opposed to seconding them from the first company. This thought took a blow via the Dark Angel stuff incorporating aggressors into the Deathwing, at least I think that’s what happened. I didn’t have the article. It’s very possible that the First Company is now going to be treated as just an elite Battle Company. And I’m ok with that. But I think they are purposefully being vague. I think it’s possibly a stop gap until Primaris terminators are released. What could they be? I don’t know, as power fists and bolters are covered.

[Rizara]

I like the idea of a troop unit of gravis, what if instead of powerfists they gave them power swords and a combiweapon bolt rifle.  It would provide tactical flexibility along with less melee dmg but still be a gravis option and wouldn't have the sheer firepower of the agressors, but provide fewer shots at longer range with the tactical flexibility to hand different targets.  That or give them a hand carried bolt rifle, or storm-bolt rifle with shoulder mounted flamers.  Just tossing out ideas.   I would love to see more gravis options, even an elite inceptor option that was mobile melee with say chain swords/power weapon option and either bolt pistols, or hand flamer/inferno pistol options. 

[Subtleknife]

I honestly dont think hellfuries will be gravis/termies. I think they will be the other option for the eventual multipart kit for supressors.

[Panzer]

Alternative options for a unit don't get new names though. Suppressors are Suppressors even if they'd get other weapon options just like Eliminators are still Eliminators when using Las-fusils, Inceptors are still Inceptors when using their Plasma weapons and Aggressors are still Aggressors when using Flamerfists.

[Kallas]

Alternative options for a unit don't get new names though. Suppressors are Suppressors even if they'd get other weapon options just like Eliminators are still Eliminators when using Las-fusils, Inceptors are still Inceptors when using their Plasma weapons and Aggressors are still Aggressors when using Flamerfists.

 

Infiltrators/Incursors, though?

 

Phobos, both infiltrating units, both with functionally similar roles: different names.

 

By that logic, they'd just be Infiltrator Option A/Infiltrator Option B. We've seen a datasheet with different rules based on load-out already, too, in the Phobos Lieutenant.

[Panzer]

 

Alternative options for a unit don't get new names though. Suppressors are Suppressors even if they'd get other weapon options just like Eliminators are still Eliminators when using Las-fusils, Inceptors are still Inceptors when using their Plasma weapons and Aggressors are still Aggressors when using Flamerfists.

 

Infiltrators/Incursors, though?

 

Phobos, both infiltrating units, both with functionally similar roles: different names.

 

By that logic, they'd just be Infiltrator Option A/Infiltrator Option B. We've seen a datasheet with different rules based on load-out already, too, in the Phobos Lieutenant.

 

 

Two different units. Different weapons, different special rules, different options, even different battlefield role (Battleline and Close Support).

[Dracos]

I honestly dont think hellfuries will be gravis/termies. I think they will be the other option for the eventual multipart kit for supressors.

 

I see what sPanzer is saying and it makes sense .... but I think you're on the right track :) Just a gut feeling but Kallas example of Incursors/Infiltrators as a comparison would seem appropriate.

 

 

Purely speculation though, nothing any of us can do but wild   guess until someone lets a good rumor out .... Valrak?

[Subtleknife]

Alternative options for a unit don't get new names though. Suppressors are Suppressors even if they'd get other weapon options just like Eliminators are still Eliminators when using Las-fusils, Inceptors are still Inceptors when using their Plasma weapons and Aggressors are still Aggressors when using Flamerfists.

Sorry I might not have been clear enough. I dont mean just a weapon variant, I mean a whole new weapon option with different rules but with the same jumpy armour. Similar to infiltrators and incursors. Not like agressors or hellblasters.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Subtleknife

[Mandragola]

I think my main takeaway is that nobody knows what hellfuries are. An alternate armament for the suppressors kit is a cool theory, and checks out as possible with the infiltrator/cursors kit (and for example warp talons and raptors, plus really quite a lot of other examples). But we just don’t know.

 

The one thing I’d feel confident in saying is that no, Tor Garadon almost certainly is not the blueprint for a new unit type - or at least that he’s no more likely to be than any other special character so far.

[Panzer]

 

Alternative options for a unit don't get new names though. Suppressors are Suppressors even if they'd get other weapon options just like Eliminators are still Eliminators when using Las-fusils, Inceptors are still Inceptors when using their Plasma weapons and Aggressors are still Aggressors when using Flamerfists.

Sorry I might not have been clear enough. I dont mean just a weapon variant, I mean a whole new weapon option with different rules but with the same jumpy armour. Similar to infiltrators and incursors. Not like agressors or hellblasters.

 

 

So basically not a version of Suppressors but rather another unit wearing Omnis armour? Sure that could be the case as well.