Current State of Reivers

[ImperialTuba]

 

 

Table top wise I think the invictor might give them a new lease of life.

What makes you say that?

I meant impulsor, sorry.

 

Ah, yes. Still eagerly awaiting that one. Finally an affordable way to move Primaris. Although I'm bummed about its capacity not being that of a Rhino. But the abilities like deploying after moving seem promising. 

[Mandragola]

I can’t see much of a case for putting reivers in an impulsor. The fundamental problem isn’t getting them where they are needed, it’s that they can’t really do their job when they get there.

 

Impulsors are for hellblasters. They let you put a load of rapid fire plasma where it’s needed and keep your guys alive until then. You can’t charge after getting out from a moving impulsor, so you can’t use it to chuck your reivers forward into melee – even if they were useful there.

[Panzer]

Yeah the Impulsor would do literally nothing for Reivers. It's a much better vehicle for shooty units, not for one that has their own means of deployment already build in.

[Lemondish]

Yeah the Impulsor would do literally nothing for Reivers. It's a much better vehicle for shooty units, not for one that has their own means of deployment already build in.

I think you mean figuratively nothing. Otherwise you'd be wrong.

 

It would actually make possible the consistent use of their special abilities that they can't often use from deep strike, most notably the shock grenade.

 

Note that this pos5 doesn't suggest that this be done, though it's an interesting idea, and I'm not saying it is competitive. It just further highlights the issues with the unit's design. A unit that can deep strike but is actually better off inside a transport so that it can actually be all that it can be is a problem, no doubt about it.

[Son of Sacrifice]

I've got 15 reivers somehow. At this point I'm considering converting them into Primaris scale tactical marines, otherwise I think they are going to stay in the box for a long time.

[mel_danes]

I've used MSU squads of Reivers to secure swathes of table edge space,using grappling hook deployment.

This boxed my opponent into recycling his giant mob of orks right back into his deployment zone, and not out flanking me any where.

Using grav shutes I've been able to contest mid board objectives, assassinate backfield characters, and reinforce failing flanks. These guys have killed many a grot cannon crew.

 

As a cheap source of deep strike bullies are Reivers rock hard auto take units? No.

 

Do they have uses, specifically in mono Primaris forces? Absolutely.

[Son of Sacrifice]

I've used MSU squads of Reivers to secure swathes of table edge space,using grappling hook deployment.

This boxed my opponent into recycling his giant mob of orks right back into his deployment zone, and not out flanking me any where.

Using grav shutes I've been able to contest mid board objectives, assassinate backfield characters, and reinforce failing flanks. These guys have killed many a grot cannon crew.

 

As a cheap source of deep strike bullies are Reivers rock hard auto take units? No.

 

Do they have uses, specifically in mono Primaris forces? Absolutely.

How many squads are we talking here? And what did you leave out of your list to accommodate Reivers?

[Jacques Corbin]

Any word on if/when the Lt from Shadowspear will be released as a stand alone? I really want him for my carbine Reivers.

[ImperialTuba]

The fundamental problem isn’t getting them where they are needed, it’s that they can’t really do their job when they get there.

 

I'm surprised GW didn't try to remedy this with the new Codex. Maybe a Reiver specific stratagem could give them the boost they need. I also think they should naturally have one extra attack on top of regular Primaris (3 for standard, 4 for Sergeant) to represent their specialty as shock troops. 

[jaxom]

There's something to be said for a unit that can throw out four attacks on the charge. One can see how they were meant work: coming in from an unexpected angle, hiding behind and then grapnel-zipping over terrain to charge T3 Sv5+ Ld6 or Ld7 units and taking a chunk out of them between the attacks and the morale check. Yet, the realities of 8th edition and game play make this difficult to rely on. Armies have ways to get around a bad morale situation (2 CP to auto-pass stratagem, at least). Setting up a unit and not having the fire power to wipe a unit in the shooting phase or a method to reliably make a 9" charge doesn't make for an attractive option to many players.

 

 

A lot of the primaris, especially vanguard, units really depend on the chapter tactics and what first founding they're descendants from.

From how I've seen reivers talked about, the preferred use is a backline bully unit with carbines. You can plop them down in tactical doctrine and start really pressuring their objective holders. The shock grenades are unfortunately pretty tricky to get to work as you can't use them off deepstrike, so youd need to use it them out of an impulsor where they wouldn't be charging.

That being said, raven guard or white scars descendants can really manipulate charge distances and deployment to get good use out of melee equipped reivers, without paying the points to give them grav chutes.

 

Yep, it helps fit the square to the circle.

 

White Scars - Extra mobility for a squad with bolt carbines can be useful. You still suffer from not being able to advance on the turn you deploy (assuming grav-chutes or grapnel launchers). The problem is that Intercessors with autobolters can fill a very similar niche. Alternatively, go for close combat weapons and Grav-line in more than 12" away, but still quite close, then use the Advance and Charge to get stuck in on the next turn. Biggest problem with that is Advancing means no Shock Grenade (someone please correct me if they've FAQed grenades and I missed it; 8/10 sure they didn't).

 

Raven Guard - Perhaps the gene-line which can get the most out of Reivers with a bit of forethought. Grav-line in more than 12" away, but still quite close, to a portion of the enemy line you want to distend or pressure. Hit the Reivers with See, But Remain Unseen and the unit most likely to target them with Enveloping Darkness. A -2 or -3 to hit will help keep them alive. Next turn, move up and aim for a 7" charge. Ways to improve it: Strike from Shadows to back up the Reivers with a harder hitting unit or a infiltrating Phobos HQ with Swift and Deadly to Advance and Charge.

 

Black Templar - Re-rolling charge dice. Phobos HQ with Master of the Vanguard for an additional +1. Nothing fancy, but directly useful for making a 9"+ charge.

[mel_danes]

How many squads are we talking here? And what did you leave out of your list to accommodate Reivers?

3 MSU squads, spread out over max distance. 1 one each table end, and another in his deployment zone on an undefended flank.

 

At the time I needed to use the Reivers to get to 2000pt's, I've since reinforced up to 5000pt's of Primaris only Ultra's.

 

They go in nearly every list, I use them as extra shots and screens for my Plasma Inceptors.

[Trevak Dal]

Yeah I'm going to break mine apart, reclaim the mp5k Bolters and put them on my "scouts" and see if I can't kitgun a bolt rifle into...that foolery the Eliminators have.

 

Might convert one into a sneak thief librarian and another into a sneak thief lieutenant.

[Mandragola]

I’ve built one into a reiver lieutenant. He has a theoretical use. The eliminator set has a hundred spare guns, so is ideal for making reivers into something - if you can sculpt cloaks.

 

Inceptors got a price cut and an extra wound. I think it’s now pretty hard to argue in favour of drop reivers compared to bolter inceptors, for 123 points. 18 S5 shots are just so much better than 10 at S4, and the inceptors are also tougher and more mobile.

[Panzer]

I will build a Reiver Lieutenant if GW gives him the ability to use grav-chutes. Not a second sooner. ^^

[Closet Skeleton]

Any word on if/when the Lt from Shadowspear will be released as a stand alone? I really want him for my carbine Reivers.

 

Likely never since he's part of the infiltrators sprue and the infiltrators are getting a whole new kit.

 

Should be able to kit bash one once the Incursors come out.

[ImperialTuba]

Any word on if/when the Lt from Shadowspear will be released as a stand alone? I really want him for my carbine Reivers.

I know there are some vendors on eBay who sell the units from the larger sets individually at a much more reasonable price than GW. I managed to get my Phobos Captain for $18.99 that way. I think they had the Phobos Lieutenant for a little less.  

[ValourousHeart]

I was thinking of a simple fix for Reivers and wanted to get feedback on the idea.

 

Get rid of the option to swap the Carbine for the knife.  Have them come standard with Rifle, Pistol and Knife.  You would no longer have to pick if you want them shooting or CC, they could do both.

[L30n1d4s]

Alternatively, another simple solution for Reivers is give them rerolls to wound for all attacks (shooting and close combat) against enemy infantry within 12"... you could call the rule "Close Combat Specialists" or something like that.

 

This fits their fluff of being close in commando type fighters who disrupt enemy infantry forces in their "rear areas" and also makes Reivers significantly more potent on the tabletop... Bolt Carbines, Heavy Bolt Pistols, and Combat Blades that reroll all to wounds against Infantry are quite useful all of a sudden, especially with the right Combat Doctrine activated.

[Marshal van Trapp]

I'd easily pay 1-2 ppm more for the option to have both loadouts at the same time!

[ImperialTuba]

Alternatively, another simple solution for Reivers is give them rerolls to wound for all attacks (shooting and close combat) against enemy infantry within 12"... you could call the rule "Close Combat Specialists" or something like that.

 

This fits their fluff of being close in commando type fighters who disrupt enemy infantry forces in their "rear areas" and also makes Reivers significantly more potent on the tabletop... Bolt Carbines, Heavy Bolt Pistols, and Combat Blades that reroll all to wounds against Infantry are quite useful all of a sudden, especially with the right Combat Doctrine activated.

Rerolls for hits AND wounds without any HQs seems a little too much. But I could see rerolls for wounds specifically in melee being a thing. The rule already exists in the form of lightning claws, so it's not too much of a stretch. 

 

I also agree about having more freedom with the loudouts.  

[Master Antaeus]

They're so frustrating because they're so cool. They have all these neat deployment and harassment tricks but their use goes contrary to their stats. Weedy, S2 Tau can huck a photon grenade 12 inches but these hulking gym bros can only manage half the combat range of a pistol?

 

Then, after you get through all their training and abilities, they are armed with either a less good auto bolt rifle or a literal piece of metal. An elite unit should have both.

 

So you have a unit that slips effortlessly behind enemy lines but has no special protection, weaker shooting, substandard close combat and can't use it's cool grenade on the turn it drops.

 

All of this taking an elite slot.

 

For 1/3 again (90 vs 123) the points you can get 3 inceptors who have comparable wounds (9 vs 10) better toughness, built in deep strike, slightly worse CC, can fall back and shoot and absolutely ejaculate bullets at whatever offends you.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

With scouts, infiltrators and incursors they just aren’t worth it. Personally I don’t even like the models that much tbh.

[MegaVolt87]

For an elite unit the carbines should be built in along with the knives + pistols stock and power swords should be upgrades. 

[Panzer]

They're so frustrating because they're so cool. They have all these neat deployment and harassment tricks but their use goes contrary to their stats. Weedy, S2 Tau can huck a photon grenade 12 inches but these hulking gym bros can only manage half the combat range of a pistol?

 

 

What kind of T'au have you been playing? None of them have S2. Also perhaps T'au grenades are simply easier to throw long distances. :P 

[defl0]

So a small bump if you play successors. If you take marksmens you can deepstrike and hot with the grenades.

 

Eat it Tau