IA: Knights of Damascus (LASC 2019)

[jbaeza94]

Here are 2 more color options

[Watcher]

Alright, coming up with modeling ideas, really liking this. Is this the right color Brown? I know you said dark. Here are 2 digital mock ups

Brother! That top Intercessor is the spitting image of the paint scheme! A beautiful start!

I have to say I wasnt expecting a digital mockup, but you nailed it with the first lad.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Watcher

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Here are 2 more color options

I think this subdued color scheme works best for frontline Troops and certain Elites, e.g., Scouts and Reivers, who must avoid detection so they may take the enemy by surprise.

Alright, coming up with modeling ideas, really liking this. Is this the right color Brown? I know you said dark. Here are 2 digital mock ups

I think such bright colors are best reserved for Elites who can take a hit- in fact, are meant to take a hit for their charges- e.g., Terminators and Honor Guards, the latter drawing the enemy's attention (and attacks) away from the HQ units they protect.

[Watcher]

The scheme is meant for the Chapter as a whole. They have a large focus on honor and victory at whatever cost. Being seen isn't so much a problem for them as each is treated as a aspiring warrior/knight who CAN take such hits. The Chapters focus is CQC and siege warfare where much like the Imperial Fists, brighter colors isn't an issue. 

 

Subdued tones would be more obligatory if they had served in the Badab War  and were using Codex Approved Night-World livery which at that point it would extend to the Chapter or serving sword-companies as a whole.

 

The brighter scheme on the Intercessor is definitely on the money, no worries there.  If the Chapter were to utilize Reivers in specific, I imagine the brown would be a shade darker with the golds and whites diminished (akin to covering a knife in dirt so the enemy doesn't see its gleam). Scouts would wear camo cloaks and would also diminish the golds. however the Chapter color of brown would remain the same.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Watcher

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

If I could comment on the colour schemes presented, I'm always one to prefer a more subdued colour palette. If they're dark-brown with white and gold highlights, the darker brown will make the gold and white stand out more. It also allows you to bring other, brighter colours in to highlight veterans and elites. It allows for more contrast with say, a red for the muzzle/helmet for a veteran without having to make the colour necessarily too bright.

 

Considering the brutal and somewhat fatalistic nature of the chapter, I think darker mainline colour could suit them better. That's how I see it anyway.

[Watcher]

If I could comment on the colour schemes presented, I'm always one to prefer a more subdued colour palette. If they're dark-brown with white and gold highlights, the darker brown will make the gold and white stand out more. It also allows you to bring other, brighter colours in to highlight veterans and elites. It allows for more contrast with say, a red for the muzzle/helmet for a veteran without having to make the colour necessarily too bright.

 

Considering the brutal and somewhat fatalistic nature of the chapter, I think darker mainline colour could suit them better. That's how I see it anyway.

Definitely an interesting viewpoint, brother.

  When I made the scheme I wanted them to have this kind of brown to represent a neutral earth tone. Most of my inspiration for the color was the desert environment near Jerusalem (even though Damascus is northeast of it). When I thought of Knights with a 'Templarish' demeanor I was reminded of 'Kingdom of Heaven' and the impression the environment gave off in the movie. I wasn't too focused on it representing too much of their beliefs or ideals, I figured their character and battle prowess spoke more than their colors. 

I appreciate the input very much, just some insight into why I chose that shade. 

[ranulf the revenant]

The brown is good, but I would go for more of an off-white or cream colour instead of pure White

[Bjorn Firewalker]

When I thought of Knights with a 'Templarish' demeanor I was reminded of 'Kingdom of Heaven' and the impression the environment gave off in the movie. I wasn't too focused on it representing too much of their beliefs or ideals, I figured their character and battle prowess spoke more than their colors.

A better choice is Hawks of Outremer, based on the story by Robert E. Howard (creator of Conan the Barbarian). The protagonist of Kingdom of Heaven fails to defend a holy city from a besieging enemy, and refuses to serve his king when called (back) to military service- NOT something you want associated with your Marines, unless you're intentionally creating a Chapter of laughingstocks, like 4chan's Pretty Marines. In contrast, the protagonist of Hawks of Outremer succeeds in his self-appointed mission of avenging a friend's murder, facing down entire armies to do so.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

 

I figured their character and battle prowess spoke more than their colors. 

 

 

I understand that. However, think of it like this. The basic idea of the Space Marine chapters, regardless of their individual cultural influences is that of a monastic knightly order. Each order had distinctive and different heraldry as at the time it allowed them to be recognized on the battlefield not just by reputation, but for the commanders of the various formations too.

 

Now while in the 41st milennium the requirement for the heraldry is less so, the fact remains that the reputation of your chapter is predicated on the recognition as such by your allies. Therefore, strong heraldry is what transmits to others your battlefield victories. There are dozens of black coloured chapters, but everyone knows the reputation of the Black Templars as opposed to the Raven Guard by their very distinctive heraldry, and that also informs others as to their character and battle prowess.

 

Given their knightly inspiration, I think they'd culturally be very attached to their heraldry. Any chapter would be, as it's part of their group and individual identity.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you mind, I just don't think you can necessarily dispense with one aspect to benefit the other.

[Watcher]

 

When I thought of Knights with a 'Templarish' demeanor I was reminded of 'Kingdom of Heaven' and the impression the environment gave off in the movie. I wasn't too focused on it representing too much of their beliefs or ideals, I figured their character and battle prowess spoke more than their colors.

A better choice is Hawks of Outremer, based on the story by Robert E. Howard (creator of Conan the Barbarian). The protagonist of Kingdom of Heaven fails to defend a holy city from a besieging enemy, and refuses to serve his king when called (back) to military service- NOT something you want associated with your Marines, unless you're intentionally creating a Chapter of laughingstocks, like 4chan's Pretty Marines. In contrast, the protagonist of Hawks of Outremer succeeds in his self-appointed mission of avenging a friend's murder, facing down entire armies to do so.

 

Haven't heard of it until now, definitely going to check it out though, sounds right up my alley! 

 

It was less about any specific characters and more so about the gritty nature of the desert and how dour the environment seems in the end battle, if that makes sense?

[Watcher]

 

 

I figured their character and battle prowess spoke more than their colors. 

 

 

I understand that. However, think of it like this. The basic idea of the Space Marine chapters, regardless of their individual cultural influences is that of a monastic knightly order. Each order had distinctive and different heraldry as at the time it allowed them to be recognized on the battlefield not just by reputation, but for the commanders of the various formations too.

 

Now while in the 41st milennium the requirement for the heraldry is less so, the fact remains that the reputation of your chapter is predicated on the recognition as such by your allies. Therefore, strong heraldry is what transmits to others your battlefield victories. There are dozens of black coloured chapters, but everyone knows the reputation of the Black Templars as opposed to the Raven Guard by their very distinctive heraldry, and that also informs others as to their character and battle prowess.

 

Given their knightly inspiration, I think they'd culturally be very attached to their heraldry. Any chapter would be, as it's part of their group and individual identity.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you mind, I just don't think you can necessarily dispense with one aspect to benefit the other.

 

You make a good argument, Ydalir. When these bad boys get more than just a Gravis-Captain (the only model i have for this army in the flesh at the moment...soon.), i'll make it work. Something to also add into my fluff as well. Thank you for the suggestions and critique 

[Watcher]

With that in mind brothers, jbaeza94 brought up some ideas in the above posts. What do you think of quartered color sections (with the dark tone) much like the Howling Griffons or Brazen Claws?

 

How would you suggest making the color scheme work with or without quartered sections or an off-white even?

 

I obviously don't want to drastically change the entire scheme because its my brainchild, but some valid points have been made. At most I'd like to tone the brown down a bit, but I'm more than willing to hear some further ideas. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Watcher

[Bjorn Firewalker]

With that in mind brothers, jbaeza94 brought up some ideas in the above posts. What do you think of quartered color sections (with the dark tone) much like the Howling Griffons or Brazen Claws?

It's likely easier to just make the arms (and lower legs, if you wish) one color, and the torso another.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Watcher]

 

With that in mind brothers, jbaeza94 brought up some ideas in the above posts. What do you think of quartered color sections (with the dark tone) much like the Howling Griffons or Brazen Claws?

It's likely easier to just make the arms (and lower legs, if you wish) one color, and the torso another.

 

Or I could avoid that and make them an official dress-wearers like those heretic Dar- +REDACTED+.   

Do you mean a style like the Scythes of the Emperor?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I know model wise it's a bit more of a trial, but what about the use of a Tabard like the Black Templars, and your movie inspiration from the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

A Tabard with quartered colour and/or chivalric heraldry of the chapter would work and also break up the one block colour.

[Watcher]

I know model wise it's a bit more of a trial, but what about the use of a Tabard like the Black Templars, and your movie inspiration from the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

A Tabard with quartered colour and/or chivalric heraldry of the chapter would work and also break up the one block colour.

This was actually originally where i wanted to go with the chapter, but modelling wise it seemed a massive task so I wasn't sure if I wanted to. 

 

I definitley agree though, it would work to break up the solid color with something more to look at as well.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

To be fair, it's only a relatively thin application of Green Stuff. Yeah it can be a pain but with practice it can be quick and easy, and easier to paint then the breastplate beneath. The difficulty comes in molding it with the movement of the model. You can always paint up a bunch without it and only reserve it for your specially worked on characters on the tabletop, but for the sake of the IA, you could try it out using the B&C Painter + Wargear options to get an idea.

[jbaeza94]

Brother, an update, I should start applying paint next weekend! It should be in the mail before Christmas! If you want a tabard/robe, let me know! I got a few da veterans and a da lieutenant I wouldn't mind putting together for you. I whip up a mock up if I can to demo the scheme Edited December 6, 2019 by jbaeza94

[jbaeza94]

 

 

Ok so I know these arent space marines, but the idea is the same. Off white tabards/robes would break up the brown.  Here is an example of what it could look like. Perhaps personal heraldry could be displayed here, keeping with knightly traditions of heraldry being worn on the surplice

[Watcher]

Brother, an update, I should start applying paint next weekend! It should be in the mail before Christmas! If you want a tabard/robe, let me know! I got a few da veterans and a da lieutenant I wouldn't mind putting together for you. I whip up a mock up if I can to demo the scheme

  Brother! I will leave the tabard option open to your interpretation. If that fits in with what you think of when these lads are described to you, I'm all for it. I'm less concerned with getting what I might think my lads may look like and more so wanting to see your creation/interpretation through genuine inspiration of my fluff. 

 

I can truly say with utmost certainty... Brother, go ham.  

 

I can't wait to see the finished product and I appreciate all of the effort you are putting in. Truly awesome! 

[jbaeza94]

WIP

 

I've applied most of the base colors here. I was thinking how to incorporate the red of a sergeant onto the fask mask. At the moment I'm thinking red lower jaw, and I'll add more bone to it to make it looked worn down, and fit with the whole reiver terror troop idea. Let me know if you would prefer a different way. I'll be trying to make a freehand of your chapter badge, the fast attack symbol, and some personal heraldry on the right knee. I'm thinking using red black and white.

 

After I wash and highlight, I will be applying grime. It's like my signature. Itll fit in great with your guys because of the desert planet. Itll also darken him up a bit

Edited December 29, 2019 by jbaeza94

[Watcher]

WIP

 

 

 

I've applied most of the base colors here. I was thinking how to incorporate the red of a sergeant onto the fask mask. At the moment I'm thinking red lower jaw, and I'll add more bone to it to make it looked worn down, and fit with the whole reiver terror troop idea. Let me know if you would prefer a different way. I'll be trying to make a freehand of your chapter badge, the fast attack symbol, and some personal heraldry on the right knee. I'm thinking using red black and white.

 

After I wash and highlight, I will be applying grime. It's like my signature. Itll fit in great with your guys because of the desert planet. Itll also darken him up a bit

It looks fantastic, Brother!!!! No complaints on my end.  I think for the red jaw, it gives them a more frightening Reiver feel when among warrior-knights, gives me some solid ideas to add to the fluff! Your plans for it sound awesome and I cant wait to see the finished result.

Feel free to grime it up, I think that works perfectly fine with their scheme and it adds your own flare to it.  

 

(those basecoats...so smooth)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

You're making good progress on the Reiver. Don't forget to add bloodstains to his knife and his base, to show his weapons aren't for show.

[jbaeza94]

I'm glad you're liking it! I'm really trying my best, even busted out the new brushes haha!

 

Is there a particular enemy they encounter? Orks / nids would require green blood of course, tau would be blueish, eldar and humans would be red!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Imperium's most pressing enemy- Chaos worshipers- have red blood. The color is also far more recognizable as blood.

 

Of course, if you have any leftover parts from other models, you can color the blood any way you like.