Vulkan Located?

[SirVulkan]

From Vulkan Hestan's page 36 of the new supplement:

 

"In the wake of the Great Rift's opening, many believe that the devastating empyric disruption to communications and travel have rendered Hestan's quest impossible.  Yet it is in this darkest hour that a fresh clue has revealed itself; an ember burning bright in the dark of the Imperium Nihilus, upon a world named Zero. An ember that hints at the location of the Unbound Flame..."

 

 

In the book Unremembered Empire.  Vulkan's coffin has the words "Unbound Flame" on it.  To me this represents him, not that coffin.  So I am assuming Vulkan is located on Zero and they will be going to get him.  It does make me wonder about the remaining relics and how they will handle those.

[PiñaColada]

That's a nice catch. I remember reading that passage and thinking that unbound flame sounded familiar and that I should look it up. Then promptly forgot about it all. 

Of course plenty of Primarchs are being hinted at returning at this point, so maybe it shouldn't come as some great big shock that Salamanders get the same treatment but at least it's fun that GW are leaving the door (a little bit) more open. Considering the glacial pace loyalist primarchs are returning, assuming there's even going to be more than one, Vulkan's probably pretty far off in the horizon still.

[Brother Tyler]

The Unbound Flame is known to be one of the four relics that haven't yet been found by the Salamanders (along with the Engine of Woes, the Obsidian Chariot, and the Song of Entropy). It could be that the primarch is within that coffin, in which case the distinction between the coffin and the primarch are irrelevant.

 

Are there any official lore sources that attribute the "Unbound Flame" name as an epithet of the primarch? I don't see that as one of his nicknames/titles in The Horus Heresy: Massacre II. I haven't read much of the Black Library Horus Heresy fiction, though, so perhaps that title appears for him in one of the books that I haven't read.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Never heard of Vulkan himself being called that, it's only the engraving on the coffin that has that.

[MegaVolt87]

Never heard of Vulkan himself being called that, it's only the engraving on the coffin that has that.

 

The coffin may technically be meant to be the last one found because it could have a location clue for Vulkan himself due to its symbolism if it is indeed the coffin and not something else. Then finding that may be a shortcut to Vulkan. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by MegaVolt87

[Elzender]

Just had a whacky theory coming to my mind: what if the Unbound Flame coffin has become Vulkan's "respawn point"? I am not very familiar with how Perpetuals work, but I think I read that depending on the individual, they either just resurrect on the spot or they appear on a different place? If so, maybe Vulkan found a way to fix his "respawn point" into the coffin, and thus it is the most certain way to eventually find him?

 

Do ignore this if Perpetuals are clearly stated to just resurrect on the spot.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Elzender

[Lord_Caerolion]

It doesn't make sense in that case if Vulkan said he'd return only once all the relics are found, though. Why would they need to find all the others if they could just find the coffin and either open it, or wait for him to appear?

 

The whole "respawning" thing does seem to vary, depending on how much of their body is destroyed. It's heavily implied that Grammaticus has "teleported" after death in some situations, but it's not definitively stated, from memory. Vulkan, on the other hand, each time seems to only "repair" his body and come back to life. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of "safety feature", where they don't just repair-resurrect if they're still in the same situation, or if their body is too destroyed to regenerate, at which point they respawn somewhere.

[Exilyth]

Maybe all the other artifacts are required to open the coffin?

Or the coffin is empty and the artifacts are required to 'summon' Vulkan to their location?

[SirVulkan]

They have retconned a few things.  So there is mention in the supplement that the Salamanders now use the Moon for their grav and fast attack training.  I don't recall this from older fluff but I could be wrong.  The older fluff mentioned that things with Grav tech and jump tech were not used much in the chapter because of the gravity issues on Nocturne.  Seems they figured out how to bypass that.  

 

I would not be surprised if they skip the other relics and go straight to the Unbound Flame. 

[MegaVolt87]

It doesn't make sense in that case if Vulkan said he'd return only once all the relics are found, though. Why would they need to find all the others if they could just find the coffin and either open it, or wait for him to appear?

 

The whole "respawning" thing does seem to vary, depending on how much of their body is destroyed. It's heavily implied that Grammaticus has "teleported" after death in some situations, but it's not definitively stated, from memory. Vulkan, on the other hand, each time seems to only "repair" his body and come back to life. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of "safety feature", where they don't just repair-resurrect if they're still in the same situation, or if their body is too destroyed to regenerate, at which point they respawn somewhere.

 

I think it makes sense for the coffin to be a shortcut to Vulkan. Making a long convoluted way for his return by the hunt with a secret shortcut via the coffin is something clever a primarch would do- especially if the effort required to get is was greater than all the other steps + artifacts combined. I think he would be more impressed with a more unconventional solution that works than following by rote. Remember how disappointed + mad RG was when he came back and the UM's were following the codex verbatim with no flexibility or extra notes added etc. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yes, but that's because the Codex Astartes was specifically written to be a general guide, and the interpretation twisted over the years. Do we know exactly how Vulkan gave his instructions to be found? He was always a fairly serious Primarch, and given how much he and the Salamanders valued stubbornness, endurance, and tenacity, he seems like the absolute last Primarch, other than maybe Dorn, who'd include a "cheat code" into his stuff. Corax, absolutely. Vulkan would see it as an insult to his honour to not complete the whole thing.

[SirVulkan]

I think because of the great rift, the story lines are all changing.  I do hope that Vulkan returns soon to the table top though.  We need another loyalist primarch.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I do hope that Vulkan returns soon to the table top though. We need another loyalist primarch.

That, or the Emperor needs to tell Guilliman his traitorous brothers' True Names, so he may grant the Traitor Primarchs True Death instead of mere banishment back to the Warp. Hopefully, Corax, the Great Khan, Russ, and Vulkan will all return to balance out Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, and Perturabo's inevitable return (after seeing the Dark Angels become Black Legion wannabes while their Primarch was sleeping on the job, I wouldn't trust the Lion any further than I could throw him).

[The_son_of_Dorn]

^

 

I take it in that last sentence you are referring primarily to the fallen?

[MegaVolt87]

Demon primarchs and princes who ascended from a mortal would not have a demonic name like a blodthirster etc. They are just gifted.That's more of a possessed / actual demon thing. I still disagree about Vulkan not having a secret shortcut though. He is pretty practical IMO.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I take it in that last sentence you are referring primarily to the fallen?

I'm referring to the Dark Angels and their successor Chapters, who have an infuriating tendency to attack the Emperor's loyal servants- including other Sons of Dorn- in an attempt to conceal all evidence of the Fallen from the Imperium. The Emperor alone knows how many wars the Imperium could've won, if the Dark Angels hadn't killed the very soldiers-turned-witnesses who would've fought in them.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Demon primarchs and princes who ascended from a mortal would not have a demonic name like a blodthirster etc. They are just gifted.That's more of a possessed / actual demon thing. I still disagree about Vulkan not having a secret shortcut though. He is pretty practical IMO.

 

Except when you become a Daemon Prince/Primarch you get a True Name. We know this because Fulgrim has one and was able to be controlled with its use, and also because a Daemon Primarch is still a Daemon, even if they were originally mortal. EDIT: I mean, that's literally the whole point of being a Daemon Prince. They're not just heavily mutated beings, they have literally ascended. That's why they can reincarnate, because they're Daemons that require a whole lot more effort to actually fully kill. End Edit

 

As for Vulkan having a shortcut, again, this is the Primarch who was willing to die rather than give up his honour in his competition with the Emperor. The Promethean Creed that he created promotes self-sufficiency, tenacity, and both mental and physical fortitude, and heavily relies on concepts like trials of endurance. He wasn't tricksy, he didn't encourage thinking outside the box for unique solutions to problems, or deception. What he did value was seeing things through to the end, no matter what comes. If you're not strong enough to endure the trial of obtaining it, you don't deserve the prize.

For him to suddenly reverse all that with a "well, unless you solve my riddle lol" makes no sense for his character whatsoever. Him being practical doesn't really come into it.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Lord_Caerolion

[MegaVolt87]

 

Demon primarchs and princes who ascended from a mortal would not have a demonic name like a blodthirster etc. They are just gifted.That's more of a possessed / actual demon thing. I still disagree about Vulkan not having a secret shortcut though. He is pretty practical IMO.

 

Except when you become a Daemon Prince/Primarch you get a True Name. We know this because Fulgrim has one and was able to be controlled with its use, and also because a Daemon Primarch is still a Daemon, even if they were originally mortal. EDIT: I mean, that's literally the whole point of being a Daemon Prince. They're not just heavily mutated beings, they have literally ascended. That's why they can reincarnate, because they're Daemons that require a whole lot more effort to actually fully kill. End Edit

 

As for Vulkan having a shortcut, again, this is the Primarch who was willing to die rather than give up his honour in his competition with the Emperor. The Promethean Creed that he created promotes self-sufficiency, tenacity, and both mental and physical fortitude, and heavily relies on concepts like trials of endurance. He wasn't tricksy, he didn't encourage thinking outside the box for unique solutions to problems, or deception. What he did value was seeing things through to the end, no matter what comes. If you're not strong enough to endure the trial of obtaining it, you don't deserve the prize.

For him to suddenly reverse all that with a "well, unless you solve my riddle lol" makes no sense for his character whatsoever. Him being practical doesn't really come into it.

 

 

All the primarchs attitudes changed from the crusade, HH and post HH. The Vulkan that established all that wasn't the same man post HH with what he went through. A shortcut to his return is more a hidden failsafe condition than a deception or trick- you know like a rational, practical thing that makes sense + the whole fates thing he has going on and acknowledges. Fair point on the true name thing, though the gods would just enhance the blessing similar to Lucius, can come back etc but with a time out penalty like Angorn. Only the Emperor can destroy a primarch completely like he did Horus. Forget about anymore primarch permadeaths, not going to happen too much $$$ on the table to take from the new setting 8thed on. At worst some may not even show up at all. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

Oh, I agree we're not gonna see any Primarchs get permadeaths. 

 

As for Vulkan, if his values changed, he'd have changed the Promethean Creed, the quasi-religion he created for his Legion/Chapter. Given that still bases itself entirely around "never give up, never back down", it stands to reason that Vulkan didn't exactly change his mind to "practicality is king". Being stubborn and obtuse is literally Vulkans thing. I mean, it could be true, but you'll need more to back it up than "well maybe his personality radically changed over time in a way that we haven't been shown him changing".

[MegaVolt87]

Ferrus wanted to change the flesh is weak thing he saw catching on, didn't get around to it. Vulkan, Corax and Russ became pretty detached before they left from their forces before they left without making changes. Guess we will know for sure if Vulken ends up coming back. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

Ferrus also died unexpectedly, Russ seemed to have some sort of mystic vision and left immediately and wasn't detached in any way until that vision, and Corax also left pretty much immediately after the Second Founding.

 

Vulkan, on the other hand, had time to plan and leave an elaborate "this is how to bring me back" treasure hunt and scatter them across the galaxy. From everything we know, he stayed around for significantly longer than the other Primarchs, possibly second only to Dorn. If there's any Primarch who had time to rewrite stuff, it was him.

[Inquisitor Verhek]

I have a problem with the whole "Vulkan left us a treasure hunt" part of the 7 relics. There are far, far too many things that just don't jive about the relics and the fact Vulkan hid them. First of all Vulkan didn't even hide them. Hell, he didn't even know which items were actually even chosen and taken away!! Although I reallyk like the idea of it all, especially when it first came out and there was hardly any background for the Salamanders at all. But now that the Horus Heresy is getting fleshed out and filled in, especially the Salamanders, it's as if Nick Kyme didn't even bother reading any of the pre-existing background that had been written for them. I think he was even responsible for a lot of it to begin with!

[Lord_Caerolion]

I have a problem with the whole "Vulkan left us a treasure hunt" part of the 7 relics. There are far, far too many things that just don't jive about the relics and the fact Vulkan hid them. First of all Vulkan didn't even hide them. Hell, he didn't even know which items were actually even chosen and taken away!! Although I reallyk like the idea of it all, especially when it first came out and there was hardly any background for the Salamanders at all. But now that the Horus Heresy is getting fleshed out and filled in, especially the Salamanders, it's as if Nick Kyme didn't even bother reading any of the pre-existing background that had been written for them. I think he was even responsible for a lot of it to begin with!

 

Contradictory fluff for the Chapter that has been described as having both 7 and 9 Companies in total in the same publication? No, couldn't be...