State of the HH vs 40k 8th edition

[Captain_Krash]

Plastics for all Armor marks would be incredible. 

 

Krash

[Charlo]

Yes, it's exactly just like 3h work and publish. Unless you have totally no expwrience at gameplay and don't know what you're doing.

 

Sorry Rending, but ill agree to disagree then. Doing anything professionally takes more than just 3 hours and a lot of work for all those involved. That's all I have to say on FAQs

[SkimaskMohawk]

Theres sweeping balance changes charlo, and then there's obvious corrections. Give dawn breakers assault grenades. Limit the daemon lord's psychic level that it can take (instead of infinite) and apply a restriction on the daemon lord's emanations so they don't benefit the brutes or vice versa. Say how to allocate a saboteur attack (maybe like how the vigilator's is resolved).

 

There might be more of the above, but unless there's a ton with complex mechanical interactions, it should honestly take very little time. Being a "professional" isn't a reason to sand bag, it simply means you get paid to do a task. The more efficiently you carry out that task, the more professional you actually are.

[MegaVolt87]

Theres sweeping balance changes charlo, and then there's obvious corrections. Give dawn breakers assault grenades. Limit the daemon lord's psychic level that it can take (instead of infinite) and apply a restriction on the daemon lord's emanations so they don't benefit the brutes or vice versa. Say how to allocate a saboteur attack (maybe like how the vigilator's is resolved).

 

There might be more of the above, but unless there's a ton with complex mechanical interactions, it should honestly take very little time. Being a "professional" isn't a reason to sand bag, it simply means you get paid to do a task. The more efficiently you carry out that task, the more professional you actually are.

 

Agreed, especially when the community on the internet has done the work for you to fix it/ identify the issues. If it still is taking a long time to fix many smaller issues in a timely manner I question the competency of the person in question in their position. IRL my bosses have fired fellow employees for less. 

[Charlo]

Tbh I think we all have different things in mind when people say FAQs and Errata.

 

I totally agree that little things should be FAQd in a month or two after the book is out (like 40k does) but larger unit reworks will take a much longer time.

 

I also know one thing Anuj said was that they prefer (for the heresy) to keep rules in the books and dislike FAQs. An example of this given was the Custodes army list, reprinted in Book 8 as that was the fastest way to get it into a book and to the player base, without it being a huge FAQ.

 

.... Which I can see the good and bad of really...

[MegaVolt87]

Their way isn't working and making things bad for the community, time for changes.

[rendingon1+]

Custodes list in Malevolence was quite a :cuss move if nothing else. It essentially invalidated previous, one year old army list and players who bought Inferno just to play Custodes were forced to buy Malevolence to play legal. Not everyone collects black books.

 

I don't know if Anuj really said that but it makes totally no sense.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Custodes update was more for people playing *against* Custodes wasn't it?

[Charlo]

The Custodes update was more for people playing *against* Custodes wasn't it?

Yep, however sadly they went OTT and made 75% of the units over priced and no fun to play. Mainly due to lack of scoring.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

The Custodes update was more for people playing *against* Custodes wasn't it?

Yep, however sadly they went OTT and made 75% of the units over priced and no fun to play. Mainly due to lack of scoring.

 

 

Well good thing Crusade is coming soon and they can do another Custodes list

 

 

To be honest, and this comes more from me being a narrative person than a gamer, I would'nt have had a problem with Custodes staying OP because in a campaign they could be used as a balancer if a team is getting to strong. For pick up games though thats not gonna fly. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[SkimaskMohawk]

charlo I hate to be that guy, but you know that playing pure custodes is handicapping yourself to half the list right? Like there's a cheap, scoring option that fills up your troops?

 

And most of the points hikes were for optional upgrades; without arae shrikes a list might have gone up ~200 points depending how much you took the power units (and only them).

[Charlo]

charlo I hate to be that guy, but you know that playing pure custodes is handicapping yourself to half the list right? Like there's a cheap, scoring option that fills up your troops?

 

And most of the points hikes were for optional upgrades; without arae shrikes a list might have gone up ~200 points depending how much you took the power units (and only them).

I always use Sisters in my list too. I don't play pure. However the Custodes units were hit hard on all the units I spent mad dollar on resin for, basically.

 

That and the community attitude to them (for book 7, so fair) just got tiring.

[rendingon1+]

Woudn't happen if FW actully playtested their stuff, just saying.

[Marshal Rohr]

They do

[Captain_Krash]

Custodes being OP on release at least played into there fluff. Weather that was intentional or not idk. I don't personally know anyone who plays HH for comp anyway so it never mattered in the first place playing with them or against them to me.

 

Krash

[Brofist]

They do

I've come around to believing that they do, but that we just know their game better :/

[Marshal Rohr]

 

They do

I've come around to believing that they do, but that we just know their game better :/

 

 

That is more believable than  'ThEy DoNt PlAyTeSt LuL'

Edited December 11, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Brother Styphus]

Saying they dont playtest at all is silly, and I dont think that was their actual meaning. "They arent playtesting their rules in a way that accurately predicts their impact on the meta upon release" is a mouthful, and if they arent doing it that way, their current method of playtesting is inefficient and needs drastic change.

[Marshal Rohr]

There’s nothing the three of them can do beyond what they are doing now.

[rendingon1+]

Rules quality speak for itself, playtested or not is irrelevant if the rules just straight up sucks. And being fair it's post Retribution problem ie. Malevolence and Inferno. Things back then were mostly fine after updated red books.

 

However if you're a rules writer with real, hard gaming experience, you already know what impact stuff will have on a tabletop. You don't have to "playtest" everything lik a a moron because there's no need to. Some new units/weapons types definitely need a bunch of battles played to make sure, but playtesting stuff like for example, assault squad with +1 WS/A and access to rad grenades is not neccessary.

 

Problem with FW is that they evidently lack this kind of experience, are blind to the most obvious things that are pointed out by a fanbase within 24h the rules are leaked. They just pull rules straight out of their , without proofreading or even common sense and then refuse to FAQ them because reasons. Sure as hell they don't playtest.

Edited December 11, 2019 by rendingon1+

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

charlo I hate to be that guy, but you know that playing pure custodes is handicapping yourself to half the list right? Like there's a cheap, scoring option that fills up your troops?

 

And most of the points hikes were for optional upgrades; without arae shrikes a list might have gone up ~200 points depending how much you took the power units (and only them).

I always use Sisters in my list too. I don't play pure. However the Custodes units were hit hard on all the units I spent mad dollar on resin for, basically.

 

That and the community attitude to them (for book 7, so fair) just got tiring.

I spent a fair bit of cash on mine too before selling, and honestly my 3500 list went to 4200, but it was fair; 240 of that was arae shrikes. The 6 bikes, 2 achillus' hetaeron, tribune, caladius and telemon made up the rest. My list was pretty much only power units, and it didn't feel fun; they all deserved to go up.

[Brofist]

Rules quality speak for itself, playtested or not is irrelevant if the rules just straight up sucks. And being fair it's post Retribution problem ie. Malevolence and Inferno. Things back then were mostly fine after updated red books.

 

However if you're a rules writer with real, hard gaming experience, you already know what impact stuff will have on a tabletop. You don't have to "playtest" everything lik a a moron because there's no need to. Some new units/weapons types definitely need a bunch of battles played to make sure, but playtesting stuff like for example, assault squad with +1 WS/A and access to rad grenades is not neccessary.

 

Problem with FW is that they evidently lack this kind of experience, are blind to the most obvious things that are pointed out by a fanbase within 24h the rules are leaked. They just pull rules straight out of their , without proofreading or even common sense and then refuse to FAQ them because reasons. Sure as hell they don't playtest.

Its a very valid point. Instead we have chronically problematic wargear (like plasma pistols) never getting touched

Edited December 12, 2019 by Brofist

[Marshal Rohr]

Rules quality speak for itself, playtested or not is irrelevant if the rules just straight up sucks. And being fair it's post Retribution problem ie. Malevolence and Inferno. Things back then were mostly fine after updated red books.

 

However if you're a rules writer with real, hard gaming experience, you already know what impact stuff will have on a tabletop. You don't have to "playtest" everything lik a a moron because there's no need to. Some new units/weapons types definitely need a bunch of battles played to make sure, but playtesting stuff like for example, assault squad with +1 WS/A and access to rad grenades is not neccessary.

 

Problem with FW is that they evidently lack this kind of experience, are blind to the most obvious things that are pointed out by a fanbase within 24h the rules are leaked. They just pull rules straight out of their , without proofreading or even common sense and then refuse to FAQ them because reasons. Sure as hell they don't playtest.

Anuj specifically mentioned playtesting in Warhammer TV interviews AND his contributions to a Tale of Four Warlords.

[Brother Styphus]

The Tale of Four Warlords was the "watch Custodes kick the crap out of NL and Mech" show.

 

There's a difference between playing the new rules vs stress-testing them to see how they break the game or to find anything missed (oh hey, this assault unit doesn't have assault grenades).

Edited December 12, 2019 by Brother Styphus

[Marshal Rohr]

That isn't relevant to Anuj saying in the show they playtested.