8th Ed Sister Dex FAQ

[Slasher956]

please let’s keep this thread to rules questions rather than arguing.....if you are unsure let’s get the questions out there now

 

EDIT - I've re-worded the Questions so hopefully they make sense to everyone - 15th Jan

Rule questions

• Can you spend Miracle Dice on the Dominons vanguard move? If you can, can you for more than a single unit?
• Can you spend multiple Miracle Dice at a single time? (Outside of stratagems and convictions) eg if a storm bolter is fired can you change just 1 or is it 1-4 dice? If it was  a squad armed with 5 boltguns at over half range - is it only 1 dice or can it be 1 -5  dice changed for the act of faith used?
•                 ONE DICE ONLY...!
• How many models can you have in a max unit of mortifiers? Is its the 1 -6 on the data sheet or the 1-4 in the points chart?
•                  1-4
• If a squad generates a miracle dice from a cherub, is it blocked from using it in the same round as another unit if the generating unit is without an Simulacrum Imperialis?
• If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase? Or does the unit without the simulacrum have to use their Act of Faith first? Related, due to the wording can you confirm how many Acts of Faith can be done in a single phase, is it limited to 2 or can it be more?
• What’s the correct points on the Geminea? Is it 16 points per model before or after weapons?
• Are Miracle Dice generated by enemy units being destroyed by failing a moral test and losing the last squad member(s)?
• Are Mircale Dice generated by enemy units (inc Characters) destroying themselves due to their own rules by, for example, overcharging plasma weapons?
• Does the Sisters of Battle Codex Crusaders datasheet replace the one in the Astra Militraum codex?
• Does the Sisters of Battle Codex Preacher datasheet replace the 'Miistorum Priest in the Astra Militarum codex?  As they have the same equipment, with the preacher having the rule Icon of the Ecclesiarchy extra dispite being 5 points cheeper
• What makes up a Sanctum?  Is it the walls and the statue is for flavour, or both parts?  If both parts how are they deployed?  ie is it within a set distance of each other with the statue inside the semi-circle of the walls.
• Canoness profile - As the model from the LE box (with the Rod of Office)is currently Illegal has the option to take the Rod of Office with other weapon choices been missed from the datasheet?
•                             ON THE ROD ENTRY REMOVE BOLTGUN AND PUT PLASMA PISTOL

Intent questions

• Have the Dominons truely lost the ability to pass their scout move on to their vehicle if they are the only unit embarked, or is this something missing from the rule? 
• Seraphim Superior wargear - Is there any reason why the supeirors wargear/weapon options are still the same as the beta codex dispite new models being sculpted with changeable arms?
• Why do the Sisters' rhino not have the option to take an additional Storm Bolter yet the Space Marines ones can take a second?

Edited January 31, 2020 by Slasher956

[Commander Dawnstar]

Maybe I've missed this line of discussion, but why is the maximum size of a unit of Mortifiers in question?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Commander Dawnstar

[Lemondish]

Maybe I've missed this line of discussion, but why is the maximum size of a unit of Mortifiers in question?

To gain an edge. The data sheet includes information on how to include up to 5 additional Mortifiers based on power level.

 

The matched play points state the unit is 1-4.

 

If you are to ask this question, I wonder if it would be best to clarify in which system you're referring (power or points).

Edited December 3, 2019 by Lemondish

[CMDR_Welles]

Maybe I've missed this line of discussion, but why is the maximum size of a unit of Mortifiers in question?

 

 

The datasheet and the points listing are different. In the points listing, it says 1-4

 

On the datasheet it says up to 5, with one of those being an Anchorite

 

The datasheet is probably the correct, but you know how people can be if things arent explicitly spelled out

[Commander Dawnstar]

Ah, I had totally missed that.

 

Personally I'd actually assume the points listing is correct. Penitent Engines are 1-4 in both the points listing and datasheet after all, and it would make sense if Mortifiers were the same.

[RolandTHTG]

Should the illegal loadout of the box cannoness be listed here, or is that just one of those things that have to wait for the official faq?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

There is some uncertainly as to whether the removal of the Dominions having their ability to grant a scout move to their transport was intentional or an error.

[taikishi]

 

Maybe I've missed this line of discussion, but why is the maximum size of a unit of Mortifiers in question?

 

 

The datasheet and the points listing are different. In the points listing, it says 1-4

 

On the datasheet it says up to 5, with one of those being an Anchorite

 

The datasheet is probably the correct, but you know how people can be if things arent explicitly spelled out

 

 

The data sheet says 5 additional, so that's up to 6.

[ValourousHeart]

Probably the easiest why to fix the Canoness is to lump the Rod of Office, Brazier of Holy Fire and Null Rod together as you can have one of these 3 items, instead of the current way it is written.

 

Also might be easier to just lump all the ranged options together and all the melee options together. 

 

I would have preferred that the Rod of Office, Brazier of Holy Fire and Null Rod have some weapon profile, instead if just special rules.  But I really like the idea of my Canoness thumping someone on the head with that torch.

[A.T.]

FAQs - If a squad generates a miracle dice from a cherub, is it still blocked from using it in the same round as another unit without an imagifier

 

ERRATA / SUGGESTION - Squad vet and seraphim wargear - the latter still having the metal model weapon restrictions despite having the other pistol arms included in the box

 

I've not got the book to hand, but someone mentioned that unaligned units like buildings break the mono-faction restrictions?

[Lemondish]

FAQs - If a squad generates a miracle dice from a cherub, is it still blocked from using it in the same round as another unit without an imagifier

 

ERRATA / SUGGESTION - Squad vet and seraphim wargear - the latter still having the metal model weapon restrictions despite having the other pistol arms included in the box

 

I've not got the book to hand, but someone mentioned that unaligned units like buildings break the mono-faction restrictions?

 

I think I can help here, but it's mostly just walking through the rules a bit to see if it makes sense when said out loud. Hope it helps, but based on the codex, gaining Miracle Dice is separate from performing an Act of Faith. They're tied in that you use the Dice to fuel the Act, but just gaining one doesn't automatically mean you can perform an Act of Faith with it that phase. You often may not be able to. For example if you perform an Act of Faith to keep an Ebon Chalice unit alive with a clutch armour save in your opponent's shooting phase, but then roll for the Order Conviction and gain a replacement. Without an exception applied via some other buff, you won't be able to use it that phase. 

 

The Incensur Cherub does not have such an exception applied to its effect, so it doesn't enable a separate Act of Faith in its rules all on its own. I think players should avoid expending the Cherub without the ability to use that die as it will otherwise be a waste. You will want to expend it before performing your limited one per phase Act, or use it when that unit is benefiting from an ability that allows it to perform outside the core once per phase limitation. Thankfully, almost every unit that can take an Incensor Cherub can also take a Simulacrum Imperialis or otherwise can gain access to an ability to perform another Act of Faith. I think of the Cherub as an upgrade to a unit carrying the Simulacrum or a unit you intend to stick closely to the Triumph as it maintains less value on its own. I imagine the normal approach is to use it to fuel early game Acts of Faith when you haven't had an opportunity to bank a lot of dice. This could be to help you punch hard in the first turn if you're going first, or to help keep a unit alive or deny a power if you're going second. Selecting one from a 2d6 roll usually means you get a fairly decent chance at a usable die as well. 

 

As far as buildings breaking the mono-faction rules (Sacred Rites), that appears to be the case. The book says that you gain the ability only if every unit in your army has the Adepta Sororitas and/or the Adeptus Ministorum keywords. Keep in mind that the Battle Sanctum is not a building and has the Adeptus Ministorum keyword. 

[A.T.]

Agreed, but worth running past GW for clarification, intent, and possible changes.

 

The cherubs in particular come across as dubious economy, effectively giving you roll two dice pick the highest that don't benefit from any auras on a single attack, wound, or damage roll per game and then requiring more points on top to use.

Edited December 4, 2019 by A.T.

[Lemondish]

Agreed, but worth running past GW for clarification, intent, and possible changes.

 

The cherubs in particular come across as dubious economy, effectively giving you roll two dice pick the highest that don't benefit from any auras on a single attack, wound, or damage roll per game and then requiring more points on top to use.

 

By benefit from any auras, do you mean for things like the Dialogus or Triumph? The Cherub only describes how you can gain the dice and how you can use that dice to perform an act of faith - it doesn't limit what happens to the value of the dice when performing that act, as far as I can see. No limitation suggests to me that it's available, which makes it all the more reliable as an early dice economy kickstart tool.  

 

But I agree - especially if the intent was to provide further benefits that were never suggested or hinted at in the rules for that piece of wargear. Doesn't hurt to ask and we might stumble upon a new benefit bestowed on them in an FAQ that wasn't even part of the package to begin with. 

 

Furthermore, you can also use the Cherub for acts you might want to make in the movement phase and all of your opponent's phases in addition to your own movement, charge, combat, and morale phases. There are always going to be potentially valuable things you can do with an on demand dice for a unit above the basic 'kill it ded' examples you gave above.  

Edited December 4, 2019 by Lemondish

[A.T.]

By benefit from any auras, do you mean for things like the Dialogus or Triumph?

 

Just regular rerolls from a canoness - for instance if you want to use a cherub to bank a good hit roll.

 

Unlike other miracle dice you can't come up blank and decide to set it aside to burn off later, so its value is going to be compared to the points spend on more guns or bodies. The reliability of up to three shots at the same roll once, or potentially 3or more extra actual shots during the game.

[Lemondish]

 

By benefit from any auras, do you mean for things like the Dialogus or Triumph?

Just regular rerolls from a canoness - for instance if you want to use a cherub to bank a good hit roll.

 

Unlike other miracle dice you can't come up blank and decide to set it aside to burn off later, so its value is going to be compared to the points spend on more guns or bodies. The reliability of up to three shots at the same roll once, or potentially 3or more extra actual shots during the game.

The difference being that, let's say a 5 and 6 is your preferred value, a single dice roll has six possibilities, so one made for a miracle dice means two out of six possibilities are in your preferred range. That means about 33% of the time you'll get the value you prefer.

 

In comparison, when you roll 2 dice you jump to 36 possible combinations. Out of all the possibilities there are 20 combinations that match your preferred outcome. 20 results out of 36 where you will get your 5 or 6. That is a 55% chance.

 

Not bad, eh? I'll let you decide, because it depends on what you want your army to do. If you intend to give most of your sisters squads ways of maximizing high miracle dice, whether that's for advancing, ensuring high damage from weapons like melta, making a key charge, or ensuring a key armour save is made before you've even had a chance to earn more than 2 dice, then I think you'll benefit from the Cherub.

 

If you're instead wanting to focus most of your Acts of Faith on a lower number but more potent units, then you won't have much use for it.

 

I think the former is far more fun and tactically deep with your decisions having a very direct impact on the result. You can't really follow a flow chart of when to use it and what it is best used for, but you sure can benefit greatly from it I think. Not having a clear understanding of what to do and when to do it definitely can scare some folks from trying it, but I think it is lots more potent and enjoyable than just another Bolter body purchased with the points instead.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Lemondish

[ValourousHeart]

It sounds like some of you might be starting with the assumption that the cherub is useless and then over complicating the interpretation of the rule to prove that it is useless.

 

It is one free MD available to the unit that it comes with.

It is lost if it isn't used by that unit right away... so don't burn it UNTIL you plan to use it.

 

The army gets 1 act of faith every phase, plus a number of ways to add additional acts of faith.

In previous editions the effect the banner had wasn't worth the 2 bodies you gave up to get it.

This edition the effect is +1 act of faith per phase... You may disagree, but IMO that will always be worth it.

 

So now your core sister units have an upgrade that gives them an extra MD and more opportunities to get to use MD.

If you are going for a MD build it is silly not to take both.

If you are going for a different build, then you might be able to skip both.

 

So in a practical example - you have 1 squad with a cherub that needs to use an act of faith.  If you need the extra dice or you think this squad could be wiped out in this attack, pop the cherub.  Additionally you could be saving a dice from your pool that could be used on a different unit.

 

Example 2 - 2 units need to use an act of faith, 1 unit has a cherub the other has a banner.  Is your MD pool is plentiful (don't use cherub) or not (use cherub).  If you think this attack will wipe out the cherub squad then pop the cherub, otherwise don't.  Use the free act of faith on the cherub squad.  Then follow up with the banner squad.

[A.T.]

It sounds like some of you might be starting with the assumption that the cherub is useless and then over complicating the interpretation of the rule to prove that it is useless.

 

Not useless. The position is that roughly one cherub equals an inferno pistol, two cherubs equal a sister, three cherubs equal a meltagun. And it's the value of those on the table versus a miracle dice with strings attached.

 

You give as an example a squad that you think might be wiped out. You commit that miracle dice to saving them before shots are fired. Your opponent is provided with full knowledge, and if they do target the unit it is effectively has a chance of having an extra wound. You've ultimately paid 10 points for this.

 

So the strings are important. I'd be wary of burning a cherub in a defensive capacity in particular because what do you do when your opponent shoots that unit first? If you actually use the miracle dice your characters and vehicles are out of luck for the phase, and if you don't why did you bring the cherub in the first place.

[Lemondish]

 

 

It sounds like some of you might be starting with the assumption that the cherub is useless and then over complicating the interpretation of the rule to prove that it is useless.

Not useless. The position is that roughly one cherub equals an inferno pistol, two cherubs equal a sister, three cherubs equal a meltagun. And it's the value of those on the table versus a miracle dice with strings attached.

 

You give as an example a squad that you think might be wiped out. You commit that miracle dice to saving them before shots are fired. Your opponent is provided with full knowledge, and if they do target the unit it is effectively has a chance of having an extra wound. You've ultimately paid 10 points for this.

 

So the strings are important. I'd be wary of burning a cherub in a defensive capacity in particular because what do you do when your opponent shoots that unit first? If you actually use the miracle dice your characters and vehicles are out of luck for the phase, and if you don't why did you bring the cherub in the first place.

For the free offensive boost or movement benefit. Sometimes things you pay for, including wargear, die before you can use them. That can happen here. Ok, oh well. Isn't the end of the world.

 

However, I do think we've strayed too far from the topic so maybe we should start another thread if there's more to discuss about the Cherub.

[BaronTuman]

Can you spend multiple MD at a time? (Outside of starts and convictions)

 

 

Please do not submit this question as is.  It's likely to just make things worse.  Please break it into several examples, that are binary yes/no questions and specific instances.

[ValourousHeart]

 

It sounds like some of you might be starting with the assumption that the cherub is useless and then over complicating the interpretation of the rule to prove that it is useless.

 

Not useless. The position is that roughly one cherub equals an inferno pistol, two cherubs equal a sister, three cherubs equal a meltagun. And it's the value of those on the table versus a miracle dice with strings attached.

 

You give as an example a squad that you think might be wiped out. You commit that miracle dice to saving them before shots are fired. Your opponent is provided with full knowledge, and if they do target the unit it is effectively has a chance of having an extra wound. You've ultimately paid 10 points for this.

 

So the strings are important. I'd be wary of burning a cherub in a defensive capacity in particular because what do you do when your opponent shoots that unit first? If you actually use the miracle dice your characters and vehicles are out of luck for the phase, and if you don't why did you bring the cherub in the first place.

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.  Meaning that in practice a squad banner will give +1 act of faith per phase applicable to that unit only.  And it won't be that you have to use acts on non-banner units first in order to avoid your banner units using your free act.  Now I'm fully prepared for some players to challenge me on that issue, because we already have some uninformed people claiming that the phrase "one or more" means "one and only ever one, except in the one instance where one means two, so it means usually one and never more than two."

 

Cherub is 5 points and is popped at the beginning of the phase.  Ok, lets now consider which phases you might be wiped out.  Opponent's shooting phase, both assault phases and both morale phases.

 

Opponent's shooting phase is a bit of an issue, because you could pop it and then your opponent chooses not to shoot you.  Ok, then it acted as a 5 point smoke grenades.  I'm ok with that.  Are you?

 

I find when you play aggressively you are better able to tell who your opponent is going to shoot at.  Mainly because you made them a big target.  So if I pop the cherub and they do shoot me, I get to reroll* a save.  While not technically a reroll, I do get to roll 2 dice and pick the one I keep, if I know that I'm going to use it as an armor save I know what number I'm looking for and I can use that knowledge to influence my decision.  So that is effectively 1CP for a command reroll.  How many players would pay 5 points to get an extra CP for their army?

 

Their assault phase I can use that MD for an Overwatch shot, a Melee attack or an Armor Save.  Again it counts as 1CP for 5 points.

 

My assault phase I can use it for an attack or and armor save.  That 1CP.

 

Either morale phase.  With LD 7/8 you can start to lose models for Morale with as few as 2-3 casualties.  Our squads go up to 15, and are only T3.  So I'm suspecting that morale has the potential to be a lot more devastating for us than it is for SM.  So if we use the cherub for the morale test, then we effectively have spent 5 points for ATSKNF.

 

So spending 5 points to get an item that I can turn in for Smoke Bombs, a Command Reroll or a one time ATSKNF seems like a bargain to me.

[Slasher956]

 

Can you spend multiple MD at a time? (Outside of starts and convictions)

 

 

Please do not submit this question as is.  It's likely to just make things worse.  Please break it into several examples, that are binary yes/no questions and specific instances.

 

 

Please change the colour of your post guv so its actually readable without hightlighting!.... ta

 

IF there is no offical FAQ from GW when the actual 'dex is released then yeah we'l put forward a clear list of questions - at the moment this is a forum list so we dont get a 100 threads all asking the same thing

[A.T.]

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

 

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

[ValourousHeart]

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

 

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

 

If GW answers your question as NO, then we'll lose any control over acts of faith.  Our opponents will have full control to dictate when and for which units we can use our signature rule.  Just imagine if the opponent got to pick which doctrine the SM player was using during the turn.

[taikishi]

 

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

 

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

 

If GW answers your question as NO, then we'll lose any control over acts of faith.  Our opponents will have full control to dictate when and for which units we can use our signature rule.  Just imagine if the opponent got to pick which doctrine the SM player was using during the turn.

 

 

I'm positive the answer is that if any unit performs an Act of Faith, only a unit with a Similacrum can perform an additional AoF that phase.

 

* 1 Act of Faith per phase

* Once per phase, a Similacrum allows a unit to perform an Act of Faith even if one has already been performed that phase

 

So order is:

-Have you performed an AoF this phase?

a. No - may perform an AoF

b. Yes - Does the unit have a Similacrum?

-- No - cannot perform an AoF this phase

-- Yes - Have you used a Similacrum to perform an additional AoF?

---- No - may perform an additional AoF this phase

---- Yes - cannot use the Similacrum to perform a third AoF

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

 

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

 

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

If GW answers your question as NO, then we'll lose any control over acts of faith. Our opponents will have full control to dictate when and for which units we can use our signature rule. Just imagine if the opponent got to pick which doctrine the SM player was using during the turn.

I'm positive the answer is that if any unit performs an Act of Faith, only a unit with a Similacrum can perform an additional AoF that phase.

 

* 1 Act of Faith per phase

* Once per phase, a Similacrum allows a unit to perform an Act of Faith even if one has already been performed that phase

 

So order is:

-Have you performed an AoF this phase?

a. No - may perform an AoF

b. Yes - Does the unit have a Similacrum?

-- No - cannot perform an AoF this phase

-- Yes - Have you used a Similacrum to perform an additional AoF?

---- No - may perform an additional AoF this phase

---- Yes - cannot use the Similacrum to perform a third AoF

Hmm, that really removed the value of the Simulacrum in my eyes. At least for defensive benefits.

 

Seems the more we look at the rules and poke holes in them, the more the army starts to look woefully one dimensional.