Chaos Knights. Thinking of getting one

[CMDR_Welles]

I was given a GW gift card for Christmas, and I am thinking about getting a knight to go with my Black Legion.

 

If you could only purchase a single Knight kit, which would you buy and why?

[Raven1]

There is the Knight Desecrator/Rampager kit with all of the chaos goodness including the backwards bending knees but with none of the weapon options you want. It only has chainsword and/or fist and the big laser destructor.

 

Then the knight warden it has none of the chaos goodness, but has weapon options you want. No chaos bits but has the top mounted carapace weapons battlecannon, meltacannon, avenger gatling cannon, chainsword, and fist.

[techsoldaten]

Yeah, like Raven1 said, there's a Desecrator / Rampager kit. It comes as advertised, no options to build a Despoiler.

 

The Despoiler variant is the one most people want. It can take Avenger Gatling Cannons, the other variants cannot. AVGs are very good guns, especially when taken in pairs.

 

By contrast, the Rampager is pure melee and the Desecrator has a single gun, the Laser Destroyer, with no option to swap. If you want shooting, you want a Despoiler.

 

To build a Despoiler, you buy the standard Imperial Knight kit and make it look Chaos-y. OR you buy other parts off eBay. In either case, magnetize the weapons options. That way, if you build a Rampager today, you can always swap guns tomorrow. Or vice versa.

 

As far as Black Legion and Knights goes, there are no direct synergies between them. Abaddon can't buff a Knight, for example. Where you do see some advantages is with the secondary effects of buffs.

 

Abaddon's morale bubble, for instance, helps you keep a screen intact while the Knight moves. That screen can advance and shoot with Heavy Weapons, which creates a use for Cultists.

 

A Chainlord can move the same speed as a Knight and probably won't be shot at because he's standing near a Knight. If the Knight gets charged, he can Heroically Intervene. With good rolls, he can outperform the Knight in combat.

 

There are a lot of other interesting ways BL+CK can work together that mostly revolve around pairing HQs with the Knight.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

If you buy the imperial knight, buy Canis Rex - the Knight Preceptor as it comes with the most stuff.  Sure, you may not use the actual Canis Rex stuff, but its the same price and bitz can always be useful down the road.

 

For an example of an imperial knight chaosified with minimal conversion and a fabulous (it's Slanneshi) paintjob, you can see mine here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356852-the-bringers-of-judgment-dr-ruminahuis-knights/?p=5347819

Edited December 26, 2019 by Dr_Ruminahui

[DuskRaider]

There's plenty of aftermarket parts for Chaos Knights, so don't feel like you HAVE to get the Loyalist kit. Off the top of my head... Kromlech, Legio Models, Fallout Hobby, and Imagination Den all sell weapons individually (the Fallout ones require the base weapon from the Knight kit, however). Each one is also Chaos themed, so they don't look weird on a Chaos Knight.

[Raven1]

There's plenty of aftermarket parts for Chaos Knights, so don't feel like you HAVE to get the Loyalist kit. Off the top of my head... Kromlech, Legio Models, Fallout Hobby, and Imagination Den all sell weapons individually (the Fallout ones require the base weapon from the Knight kit, however). Each one is also Chaos themed, so they don't look weird on a Chaos Knight.

Correct but if money is a concern, then the warden is the better choice. You dont get the flair of the Chaos Knight Design but you get weapon options which from a gaming and monetary perspective is the better option IMO.

 

If he wants the Chaos Knight and has the extra money for ebay/3rd part bits then by all means the Chaos Knight looks so much better inside a Chaos army.

 

The other aspect is where he plays as GW stores dont allow non-GW models and weapon options on a knight won't go unnoticed.

[DuskRaider]

They'll usually allow up to 25% of the model to be non-GW.

 

I gave options. He can either use them or not.

 

And not for nothing, but most employees won't be able to tell the difference once it's painted anyhow.

Edited December 26, 2019 by DuskRaider

[techsoldaten]

The real issue with 3rd party parts is cost. They don't produce at scale so you are paying for time and materials to cast it.

 

Once you pay $30 + shipping for a single third-party Avenger Gatling Cannon, you realize you could have spent the same amount on Canis Rex and gotten so much more.

 

And don't tell me Shapeways is a good alternative. I've spent so much time trying to sand the layers on their 3D printed bits, it's not funny. Would like those days of my life back.

 

That said, I did recently get a Chaos Knight Desecrator. The model is cool looking, but I would not want 3 standing side by side in the identical pose.

[CMDR_Welles]

Its a GW gift card, so I am limited to that.

 

If I do "third party", I would probably just bits parts out from Ebay. I'm looking to see what is available, but I dont know what parts from the kits are shared, and if they are available on ebay, so that's causing me some confusion.

[DuskRaider]

It's often times cheaper to go third party for Avenger Gatling Cannons than it is going eBay. Scalpers will try to get $40+ for a GAC on eBay, you can buy two for that with the shipping from Legio.

 

Why would I tell you Shapeways is a good alternative? Most of the renders on there are trash other than a couple vendors, and those ones you pay out the nose for.

 

Just remember, even with the Canis Rex kit you're still only getting one weapon per kit, so if you're planning on going with a Despoiler loadout you're still not going to be able to do it. The Chaos Knight model is really nice and you can't go wrong with a Rampager. The Desecrator isn't amazing, but the Relic Laser Destroyer helps a bit and if you decide down the line that you want Armigers, he gives them a reroll of 1s which is really useful for LasLock Moirax.

 

Oh, and as far as shared parts... technically nothing. All Loyalist parts are interchangeable with the Chaos Knight and vice versa, but as far as what's in the boxes? Nothing shared.

Edited December 27, 2019 by DuskRaider

[Lysimachus]

Just remember, even with the Canis Rex kit you're still only getting one weapon per kit, so if you're planning on going with a Despoiler loadout you're still not going to be able to do it.

On this point, I'm planning to build a Despoiler with dual RFBC and Stormspear, but model-wise it will be a Desecrator with 1 Laser, 1 Battle Cannon and the Stormspear launcher. The Laser will just counts-as a Cannon, in fluff I'll say it's some kind of heavy multilaser (high variable number of shots, similar str to lascannon, etc)

 

Shouldn't be too much confusion as Chaos Knights can't mix and match between Desecrator/Despoiler loadouts. Main thing is it will have 2 gun arms and the carapace launcher?

 

Anyway, point is that I'll only need to source/ebay 1 Battle Cannon from the loyalist kit (although they seem pretty hard to come by!)

[MegaVolt87]

If you want double avengers, just get a forge feind and use the autocannons, then you also got a maulerfiend as well because its the same kit. 

[DuskRaider]

Unfortunately, the weapon chassis from the Knight is barely ever available. I had to buy one from Taro Modelmaker to make my latest Despoiler :(

[CMDR_Welles]

As to shared parts, I meant if there were any parts that are shared within the available options that only allow you to make one of said options.

 

I'll be magnetizing anyway, but sometimes a magnet job is more trouble than its worth if the parts are either too finicky, or would look like utter ass...

 

I am a firm believer in magnet jobs not looking like obvious magnet jobs... A good job is one that you cant even tell there are magnets.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think all the options magnetize well, and magnetize well across variants.  Unless they depend on the same gun core (which only the rapid fire battle cannon and the fusion gun do), you magnetize them at the "elbow", which allows easy weapon magnetization.

 

Here is my magnetized knight - all the options in the warden kit are magnetized:  http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356852-the-bringers-of-judgment-dr-ruminahuis-knights/ (to see all options, look at the whole thread - its less than one page).  You can form your own opinion was to whether they are obviously magnetized or not - they meet my standards, but my standards aren't really important in your decision making.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Dr_Ruminahui