Bringing 30k models to 40k

[Brother Casman]

So, I believe we've all seen that Forgeworld is working hard on the Horus Heresy setting, and introducing new units along the way. I know that a number of us would like to use these new units in the 40k era, but we're sort of blocked by a lack of rules, and Forgeworld doesn't seem inclined to add any. I think that we can step up and create our own rules for these models - GW has indicated that their rulesets are frameworks for creating our own stuff.

 

There are some important principles to keep in mind:

• We'll need our opponents' permission to use these rules. No way around it, as these won't be official, but hopefully we can persuade our friends to at least try one game.
• We'll likely have to keep the rules fairly conservative. To get our opponent buy-in, the rules can't be overpowered - what's overpowered is subjective, but hopefully we can discuss the rules here to generate a consensus.
• We'll likely have to put the power level/points a little higher. This should, in theory, also help with opponent buy-in - we're essentially giving ourselves a bit of a handicap in our lists.
• We're not going to be able to bring everything to 40k. Some things just don't exist in the Dark Millennium in usable numbers (one example is Volkite Weapons) - these will have to stay in the Heresy era, sadly.

We do have a couple suitable candidates to bring forward 10,000 years:

The Legion Arquitor Bombard

The Sabre Strike Tank

With likely many more that we could look at.

 

In the past, I've created rules for the old Sabre Tank Hunter, which might provide a useful template for our future rules.

 

I suspect this will be a sort of long-running project; I'll help guide as best I can. I won't exercise veto powers, unless the discussion becomes toxic, which we'll hopefully avoid.

 

Feel free to add suggestions to this thread for possible units to bring to 40k - I figure we can spin off individual threads for deeper discussions on individual units.

[Joe]

You'll be shy by about 10k if you do that.

 

I know that a number of us would like to use these new units in the 40k era, but we're sort of blocked by a lack of rules, and Forgeworld doesn't seem inclined to add any.

That's because Forgeworld aren't responsible for porting the rules across anymore; that's on Games Workshop, apparently.

 

I think a spreadsheet of some description to keep better track of any suggestions, and the like, would be a wise move. There's a lot of Forgeworld content that could be fan-ported over with a little tweaking here and there.

[Gederas]

Interesting, hmm.... How about we start it off with the BIGGEST OF CHOOM?

Name: Relic Glaive Super-heavy Special Weapons Tank
Power Rating: 40 (Points: 800)
Battlefield Role: Lord of War
A Glaive Super-heavy Special Weapons Tank is a single model equipped with a Volkite Carronade, two Quad Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter and crushing tracks.

Stats

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	A	Ld	Sv
*	5+	*	9	9	26	*	9	2+

Damage

Remaining Wounds	M	BS	A
14-26	10"	3+	9
7-13	7"	4+	6
1-6	4"	5+	3

Weapons

Name	Range	Type	S	AP	Damage	Abilities
Vokite Carronade	48"	Heavy 6	9	-3	d6	When you fire this weapon, draw a straight line between the barrel of the weapon and that of the closest model in the target unit. Make a wound roll against the target unit and each unit the centre of the line passes over, friend or foe. Each time an unmodified wound roll of 6 is made for an attack with this weapon, that attack inflicts one mortal wound on the target in addition to the normal damage. Targets do not get saving throws from cover against this weapon.

Options: May replace Quad Lascannons with Laser Destroyers, May be equipped with one of the following: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta, Storm-bolter
Abilities: Explodes, Smoke Launchers, Power of the Machine Spirit, Steel Behemoth, Angels of Death
Faction Keywords: Imperium, Adeptus Astartes, <Chapter>
Keywords: Titanic, Vehicle, Relic, Glaive Super-heavy Special Weapons Tank Edited January 10, 2020 by Gederas

[temneb]

A lot of this has been done

http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/forum/67-8th-edition-rules-discussion/

[Irbis]

That's because Forgeworld aren't responsible for porting the rules across anymore; that's on Games Workshop, apparently.

People repeat this over and over, yet I never saw a single indication that is the case. It's FW who is sitting on finished Fires of Cyraxus, refusing to publish it. It's FW who released Index filled with broken (either hilariously unusable or OP rules). If it's GW that is doing rules, why are FW models always written in seemingly identical, incompetent way that almost never results in balanced, usable units?

[Darkwrath121]

 

 

That's because Forgeworld aren't responsible for porting the rules across anymore; that's on Games Workshop, apparently.

People repeat this over and over, yet I never saw a single indication that is the case. It's FW who is sitting on finished Fires of Cyraxus, refusing to publish it. It's FW who released Index filled with broken (either hilariously unusable or OP rules). If it's GW that is doing rules, why are FW models always written in seemingly identical, incompetent way that almost never results in balanced, usable units?

Starting from the recent Custodes beta rules pdfs, the responsibility for 40k rules for FW models passed to the GW rules team. That's why the Contemptors were consolidated to the same statline as the codex venerable contemptor, for example, rather than the previous FW index Venerable contemptors.

 

The GW rules writer responsible had an interview about it on the Warhammer Twitch channel not long after the first beta PDF released, but I can't dig it up without a paid subscription. The indication FW has given at events is that they no longer have a 40k rules team whatsoever, so have washed their hands of it.

 

Edit: Seems to have been from the 1st February 2019 stream, after doing some digging, for anyone interested.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Brother Casman]

Okay, folks, this isn't the place to have the same old argument about how FW and GW are approaching the rules. We're here to look at creating rules of our own. Cool?

 

Gederas - excellent start!

 

Temneb - unfortunately, that forum doesn't appear to be public.

[MegaVolt87]

Name: Hellforged Glaive Super-heavy Special Weapons Tank
Power Rating: 40 (Points: 800)
Battlefield Role: Lord of War
A Hellforged Glaive Super-heavy Special Weapons Tank is a single model equipped with a Volkite Carronade, two Quad Lascannon, a twin Heavy Bolter and an eternal Hunger.

Stats

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	A	Ld	Sv
*	*	*	9	9	26	8	9	2+

Damage

Remaining Wounds	M	BS	WS
14-26	10"	3+	5+
7-13	7"	4+	4+
1-6	4"	5+	3+

Weapons

Name	Range	Type	S	AP	Damage	Abilities
Vokite Carronade	48"	Heavy 6	9	-3	d6	When you fire this weapon, draw a straight line between the barrel of the weapon and that of the closest model in the target unit. Make a wound roll against the target unit and each unit the centre of the line passes over, friend or foe. Each time an unmodified wound roll of 6 is made for an attack with this weapon, that attack inflicts one mortal wound on the target in addition to the normal damage. Targets do not get saving throws from cover against this weapon.

Options: May replace Quad Lascannons with Laser Destroyers, May be equipped with one of the following: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta, Storm-bolter
Abilities: Machina Malifica, Containment Breach, Smoke Launchers, Steel Behemoth
Faction Keywords: Chaos, <Mark of Chaos>, Heretic Astartes, <Legion>
Keywords: Titanic, Vehicle, Hellforged, Hellforged Glaive, Super-heavy, Special Weapons Tank

 

Version for the CSM because CSM. I broke up the keywords a bit, otherwise it sits fine right now. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[temneb]

Okay, folks, this isn't the place to have the same old argument about how FW and GW are approaching the rules. We're here to look at creating rules of our own. Cool?

 

Gederas - excellent start!

 

Temneb - unfortunately, that forum doesn't appear to be public.

You do have to join the forum, but there they have ported over a lot of the 30k stuff.

 

Legion rules and units. I’m going to say most of 30k stuff to date. Free downloads of the PDF files.

[jaxom]

Most units are pretty straightforward because they have 40k equivalents. The ones to look at are the 30k unique vehicles and the Legion-era specific units with special rules. Units without special rules, but Legion-era unique weapons are also very approachable because weapon conversion follows a standard pattern. The exception there is weapons with special rules.

 

Hmmm, I can put together a list of what I think requires actual work, but I won't have time to do until later.

[Brother Casman]

That would be great, Jaxom! And no worries on taking some time - I figure this will be a slow-grow project (of sorts).

[jaxom]

Generic Special Rules (come up a bunch for special units and weapons)

• Adamantium Will – Currently: +1 to Deny the Witch tests.
• Armourbane – Currently: roll an addition D6 for armour penetration.
• Blind – Currently: reduced to WS1 and BS1 until the end of their next turn.
• Chosen Warriors - Currently: any model in the unit can issue and accept challenges.
• Concussive – Currently: any unsaved wounds cause the model to be Initiative 1 until the end of the following Assault phase.
• Counter-Attack- Currently: +1 attack until the end of the phase if charged and not already locked in combat.
• Crusader- Currently: roll an extra die when making a Run move and use highest result. Add D3 to Sweeping Advance totals.
• Eternal Warrior – Currently: only take 1 wound instead of Instant Death.
• Fear – Currently: take a Leadership test at start of each Fight sub-phase if in base contact with a Fear model. Fail and have WS reduced to 1 for the remainder of the phase.
• Fleet – Currently: re-roll one or more dice for Run moves and charge ranges.
• Fleshbane – Currently: wound any non-vehicle unit on a 2+.
• Furious Charge – Currently: +1 Strength until end of Assault phase on turn the model charges.
• Interceptor – Currently: at the end of the enemy movement phase fire at one unit that arrived from Reserve within range and line of sight. A weapon fired this way cannot be used in the next turn.
• It Will Not Die! - Currently: Regain a wound or hull point on a 5+ at the end of your turn.
• Precision Shots – Currently: firer can allocate hit if the roll to hit was a 6.
• Precision Strikes – Currently: the melee version of Precision Shots.
• Rage – Currently: +2 attacks for charging instead of +1.
• Rampage – Currently: gain +D3 attacks if outnumbered in combat.
• Relentless – Currently: can move and shoot Heavy, Salvo, or Ordinance weapons.
• Rending – Currently: wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP2 or gain an addition D3 to armour penetration.
• Shred – Currently: re-roll wound rolls.
• Shrouded – Currently: Increase cover save by 2, 5+ in the open.
• Skyfire – Currently: normal BS against Flyers and Skimmers, but only snapshots at other targets.
• Smash – Currently: AP2 for all melee attack, can make one attack (instead of normal attacks) at 2x strength with re-rolling armour penetration.
• Soul Blaze – Currently: one or more unsaved wounds and the unit has to roll each turn. 1-3, effect ends; 4-6 take D3 Str4, AP5 hits which ignore cover.
• Stealth – Currently: increase cover save by 1, 6+ in the open; stacks with Shroud.
• Stubborn – Currently: ignore penalties to Leadership for Morale and Pinning tests.
• Tank Hunters – Currently: re-roll failed armour penetration and can choose to re-roll glancing hits.
• Torrent – Currently: can place flamer template up to 12” away.
• Unwieldy – Currently: Pile In and fight at Initiate 1 unless Monstrous Creature or Walker.
• Zealot – Currently: effectively Fearless and can’t Go to Ground. Re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the first round of combat.

Additional Generic Weapon Properties

• Master-Crafted – Currently: re-roll one miss per turn.
• Graviton Pulse – Currently: Strength test or suffer a wound, leaves behind difficult and dangerous terrain.
• Lingering Death – Currently: leaves behind dangerous terrain for any model with a Toughness value and open-topped vehicles.
• Crawling Fire – Currently: firer can move the blast marker 2” in any direction so long as it would cover more models than previously.
• Rad Grenades – Currently: -1 Toughness against enemies during the first turn of close combat.
• Rad-phage – Currently: a model which loses one or more wound and survives has its Toughness score reduced by -1 for the rest of the battle.
• Shroud Bombs – Currently: defensive grenades and most units have to pass a Ld test to charge them.
• Duellist’s Edge – Currently: +1 Initiative when fighting in a challenge.
• Sweep Attack – Currently: make a number of attacks equal to the number of enemy models in base contact rather than using own Attack value.
• Cumbersome – Currently: only ever make a single WS1 attack in the Assault phase.
• Murderous Strike – Currently: Instant Death on a to wound roll of 6 (make saves against this wound separately).

Addition Miscellaneous Equipment

• Nuncio-vox – Currently: DS doesn’t scatter if deployed within 6”, line of sight can be drawn for barrage weapons from the model.
   
• Armoured Ceramite – Currently: ignore the Melta special rule.
• Anbaric Claw – Currently: once per player turn, in Assault, hit all models within 1” of vehicle with D6 hits per unit at Str 5 AP4 Rending at Initiative 10.
• Auxiliary Drive – Currently: Ignore Immobilised results on a 4+.
• Command Tank – Currently: Any vehicles in the squadron can ignore Crew Shaken on 4+ while in coherency with this vehicle. In addition, one squadron vehicle in coherency can fire a single non-ordinance weapon (as if it had the Interceptor rule) once per turn.
• Shell Shock – Currently: Pinning tests are made at -1 penalty to Leadership.
• Flare Shield – Currently: shooting attacks against the front arc have -1 Strength or -2 if Template or Blast, unless they have the Destroyer rule.
• Frag Assault Launcher – Currently: grants assault grenades to any troops within that assault on the turn they leave the vehicle; also gives walkers assault and defensive grenades.
   
• Machinator Array – Currently: +1 Toughness and gain Night Vision and some weapons. Also gives +2 to Repair rolls for Battlesmiths and two extra melee attacks at +1 Str, AP2, Unwieldy, Shred, Armourbane.

Book One

 

Sons of Horus additional special rules

 

Justaerin Terminator Squad

 

• Implacable Advance – Currently: always count as scoring units in missions where Troops count as scoring units.
• Favoured of Horus – currently: can be taken instead of a Command squad for a Terminator armoured Praetor.

Horus the Warmaster

• Weapon Mastery – Can split attacks between his weapons (default to 8th edition).
• Sire of the Sons of Horus – Currently: +D3 attacks against WS4 or less units or characters. Player chooses what turn he (and any attached terminator squad) comes in on DS (default to 8th edition)
• God of Battle – Currently: Reserve units gain Outflank, all Sons of Horus gain +1 Ld, Seize the Initiative on a 4+.
• The Point of the Spear – Currently: Veteran Tactical Squads and Justaerin Terminator-squads as Troops and Horus can call done an orbital bombardment once per game.
• Disabling Strike (on the Talon) – Currently: any model wounded, but not killed in Assault is at -1WS and -1Str for the rest of the game. This is cumulative across multiple Assault phases.
• Teleportation Matrix – Currently: Warmaster (and any attached terminator squad) don’t scatter when DS’ing.

Ezekyle Abaddon

• Teleporter Assault – Currently: Abaddon (and any attached terminator squad) can DS and re-roll DS Mishap if desired.

World Eaters additional special rules

 

Caedare Weapons

• Meteor Hammer – Currently: +2 Str, AP5, Concussion, +1 Initiative
• Excoriator Chainaxe – Currently: +1 Str AP3, Shred, Unwieldy
• Twin Falax Blades – Currently: StrU, AP5, +1 Attack, Rending
• Barb-hook Lash – Currently: StrU, AP5, Fleshbane

Centurion Shabran Darr

• Head-Hunter – Currently: When fighting in a Challenge, attacks gain the Rending special rule.

The Primarch Angron

• Red Sands – Currently: can concurrently Challenge units and characters up to his number of attacks, must devote at least one attack to each challenge.
• Sire of the World Eaters – Currently: Furious Charge, 6+ FnP, must Consolidate towards nearest enemy unit, all allied World Eaters within 12” are Fearless.
• Murderous Strike (on Gorefather and Gorechild)
• The Butcher’s Nails – Currently: +1 Attack for each IC or infantry unit wiped out or destroyed with Angron in close combat (he has remove the model or last model), up to a max of +10.

Emperor's Children additional special rules

Sonic Shriekers – Currently +1 Initiative

 

Fulgrim the Illuminator

• Sire of the Emperor’s Children – Crusader special rule, must always accept and issue challenges so long as opponent has WS5 or higher. All Emperor’s Children and Fulgrim gain +2 Combat Resolution and you can re-roll reserve rolls (succeeded or failed).
• Sublime Swordsman – Currently: 3+ Invulnerable save in close combat, gains additional attacks equal to how much greater his Initiative is compared to his challenge opponent.
• Strategic Planning – Currently: gains a universal or Legion Warlord trait of your choice.
• Gilded Panoply – Currently: 2+ save and 5+ invulnerable save. Any save roll of 6 in close combat and the unit which inflicted the wound must pass an Initiative test or be Blinded.

Rylanor the Unyielding

• Venerable – Currently: Can force a re-roll on the Vehicle Damage charge.
• Mantle of Glory – Currently: Allied Emperor’s Children units within 24” can re-roll failed Morale checks and gain +1 Combat Resolution.

Death Guard additional special rules

 

Chem-Munitions – Currently: Shred and Gets Hot!

 

Deathshroud Terminator Squad

• Implacable Advance – Currently: always count as scoring units in missions where Troops count as scoring units.
• Favoured of Mortarion – Currently: can be taken instead of a Command squad for a Terminator armoured Praetor.

Mortarion the Reaper

• Sire of the Death Guard – Currently: All Death Guard gain the Stubborn special rule (if not Fearless) and Frag Grenades, Frag Missiles, Havoc Launchers gain the Poisoned (4+) rule.
• Shadow of the Reaper – Currently: -1 penalty to opponents when testing against Mortarion’s Fear effect. Can pass a Ld test redeploy within 10” of his position and not within 3” of the enemy during the Shooting phase if he’s not in a transport, reserve, or locked in combat. This is not counted as a move and is not affected by intervening terrain; he can charge in the Assault phase, but it is a disordered charge.
• Preternatural Resilience – Currently: re-roll Toughness tests and “It Will Not Die!” rolls, automatically pass Dangerous Terrain rolls, only affected on a 6 by weapons which otherwise wound on a set value.
• Witch Spite – Currently: passes any Deny the Witch roll on a 4+.

Mechanicum

 

Thallax Cohort

• Djinn-Sight – Currently: reduce the benefits of cover by 2 and Infiltrators cannot be set up within 24” of the unit regardless of line of sight.

Imperial Avenger Strike Fighter

• Tactical Bombs – Currently: One use only Str6 AP4 Heavy 1 Barrage Blast 3”
• Chaff Launcher – Currently: 4+ invulnerable save against weapons with the ‘Missile’ type.

Magos Reductor Calleb Decima

• Master of Destruction – Currently: Sunder, Tank Hunter, +1 bonus to Building Damage table. Can skip firing in the Shooting phase to grant these bonuses to a single heavy or ordance weapon within 6” (including vehicle he’s embarked on).
• Curse of the Omnissiah – Currently: Once per game ranged attack that benefits from Master of Destruction.
• Castellan Reductor – Currently: he’s an HQ choice for an Allied Detachment which can has counts-as rules because the actual Mechanicum rules weren’t out yet.
• Cybernetica – Currently: servo-automata must take a Pinning test at the start of each Movement phase is they are not accompanied by Calleb Decima.

[jaxom]

 

Generic Special Rules (come up a bunch for special units and weapons)

• Adamantium Will – Currently: +1 to Deny the Witch tests.

5+ save against Mortal Wounds in the Psychic phase?

• Armourbane – Currently: roll an addition D6 for armour penetration.

Either a minimum damage on the damage roll or roll two and pick the highest?

• Blind – Currently: reduced to WS1 and BS1 until the end of their next turn.

No idea.

• Concussive – Currently: any unsaved wounds cause the model to be Initiative 1 until the end of the following Assault phase.

Was ditched in 8th with Initiative. Just remove it where it appears?

• Counter-Attack- Currently: +1 attack until the end of the phase if charged and not already locked in combat.

Similarly removed (as far as I am aware) from units which had it before 8th.

• Crusader- Currently: roll an extra die when making a Run move and use highest result. Add D3 to Sweeping Advance totals.

Re-roll Advance die?

• Eternal Warrior – Currently: only take 1 wound instead of Instant Death.

Either all damage is halved (rounding up) or reduce damage by one (to a minimum of 1)?

• Fear – Currently: take a Leadership test at start of each Fight sub-phase if in base contact with a Fear model. Fail and have WS reduced to 1 for the remainder of the phase.

Anyone know how Daemons handled this?

• Fleet – Currently: re-roll one or more dice for Run moves and charge ranges.

+2 to Advance and Charge rolls?

• Fleshbane – Currently: wound any non-vehicle unit on a 2+.

Can probably stay the same?

• Furious Charge – Currently: +1 Strength until end of Assault phase on turn the model charges.

Can probably stay the same?

• Interceptor – Currently: at the end of the enemy movement phase fire at one unit that arrived from Reserve within range and line of sight. A weapon fired this way cannot be used in the next turn.

No idea.

• It Will Not Die! - Currently: Regain a wound or hull point on a 5+ at the end of your turn.

Regain 1 wound at the beginning of your turn (based off Old One Eye).

• Precision Shots – Currently: firer can allocate hit if the roll to hit was a 6.
• Precision Strikes – Currently: the melee version of Precision Shots.

Neither of these really fit in with the current rule paradigm. Maybe sixes to hit autowound?

• Rage – Currently: +2 attacks for charging instead of +1.

Can pretty much stay the same; +1 attack if the unit charges, is charged, or performs a heroic intervention?

• Rampage – Currently: gain +D3 attacks if outnumbered in combat.

No idea.

• Relentless – Currently: can move and shoot Heavy, Salvo, or Ordinance weapons.

A bunch of other units that had this lost it.

• Rending – Currently: wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP2 or gain an addition D3 to armour penetration.

Wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP-4 (based off Genestealers).

• Shred – Currently: re-roll wound rolls.

Damage 2?

• Shrouded – Currently: Increase cover save by 2, 5+ in the open.

Something line Eldar Rangers or Space Marine Scouts or Raven Guard?

• Skyfire – Currently: normal BS against Flyers and Skimmers, but only snapshots at other targets.

+1 to hit against units with the FLY keyword and -1 to hit otherwise?

• Smash – Currently: AP2 for all melee attack, can make one attack (instead of normal attacks) at 2x strength with re-rolling armour penetration.

Alternative melee profile?

• Soul Blaze – Currently: one or more unsaved wounds and the unit has to roll each turn. 1-3, effect ends; 4-6 take D3 Str4, AP5 hits which ignore cover.

Bonus Mortal Wounds on 6s to wound?

• Stealth – Currently: increase cover save by 1, 6+ in the open; stacks with Shroud.

Something line Eldar Rangers or Space Marine Scouts or Raven Guard?

• Stubborn – Currently: ignore penalties to Leadership for Morale and Pinning tests.

Only take one casualty from failed Morale test?

• Tank Hunters – Currently: re-roll failed armour penetration and can choose to re-roll glancing hits.

+1 damage vs units with the VEHICLE keyword?

• Torrent – Currently: can place flamer template up to 12” away.

16" range, 2D6 auto hits (based off Hellhound)

• Unwieldy – Currently: Pile In and fight at Initiate 1 unless Monstrous Creature or Walker.

-1 to hit rolls?

• Zealot – Currently: effectively Fearless and can’t Go to Ground. Re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the first round of combat.

No idea.

[Brother Casman]

Well, February kind of got away from me, but I have some thoughts:

 

Generic Special Rules (come up a bunch for special units and weapons)

• Adamantium Will – Currently: +1 to Deny the Witch tests.

5+ save against Mortal Wounds in the Psychic phase?

Likely would need to look at individual characters/units that have Adamantium Will - if they're not a Psyker, they would likely gain the ability to Deny the Witch once per Psychic Phase. If they are a Psyker, then perhaps +1 to Deny the Witch rolls?

• Armourbane – Currently: roll an addition D6 for armour penetration.

Either a minimum damage on the damage roll or roll two and pick the highest?

Probably roll two d6 for damage and take the highest

• Blind – Currently: reduced to WS1 and BS1 until the end of their next turn.

No idea.

If we keep Blind, we could probably phrase it as "Units struck by this weapon/effect require unmodified 6s to hit with all of their attacks until the end of their next turn." But, unmodified 6s to hit might be too harsh - could consider a -1 to hit rolls as well.

• Concussive – Currently: any unsaved wounds cause the model to be Initiative 1 until the end of the following Assault phase.

Was ditched in 8th with Initiative. Just remove it where it appears?

While the Initiative stat is gone, we could have a Concussive effect: "This unit must fight after all other eligible units have fought/at the end of the Fight Phase" but likely too much bookkeeping

• Counter-Attack- Currently: +1 attack until the end of the phase if charged and not already locked in combat.

Similarly removed (as far as I am aware) from units which had it before 8th.

This has made a sort of comeback with Angels of Death for the Space Marines, may consider adapting the new rule on a unit-by-unit basis

• Crusader- Currently: roll an extra die when making a Run move and use highest result. Add D3 to Sweeping Advance totals.

Re-roll Advance die?

Several options here - re-roll Advance die, roll two Advance die and take the highest, +1 to Advance rolls

• Eternal Warrior – Currently: only take 1 wound instead of Instant Death.

Either all damage is halved (rounding up) or reduce damage by one (to a minimum of 1)?

I'm inclined towards reducing damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1)

• Fear – Currently: take a Leadership test at start of each Fight sub-phase if in base contact with a Fear model. Fail and have WS reduced to 1 for the remainder of the phase.

Anyone know how Daemons handled this?

Alas, I don't know

• Fleet – Currently: re-roll one or more dice for Run moves and charge ranges.

+2 to Advance and Charge rolls?

Simplest is probably a bonus to Advance and Charge rolls (+1 or +2 is probably okay), but we could look at re-rolls as well

• Fleshbane – Currently: wound any non-vehicle unit on a 2+.

Can probably stay the same?

Probably easiest to add a special rule to individual weapons that have this effect. Several possible effects: 6 to wound does a mortal wound, 6 to wound does multiple wounds, damage versus non-Vehicles is increased to d3.

• Furious Charge – Currently: +1 Strength until end of Assault phase on turn the model charges.

Can probably stay the same?

Agreed

• Interceptor – Currently: at the end of the enemy movement phase fire at one unit that arrived from Reserve within range and line of sight. A weapon fired this way cannot be used in the next turn.

No idea.

Might be best to make this a Stratagem (e.g. Space Marines - Auspex Scan)

• It Will Not Die! - Currently: Regain a wound or hull point on a 5+ at the end of your turn.

Regain 1 wound at the beginning of your turn (based off Old One Eye).

Agreed

• Precision Shots – Currently: firer can allocate hit if the roll to hit was a 6.
• Precision Strikes – Currently: the melee version of Precision Shots.

Neither of these really fit in with the current rule paradigm. Maybe sixes to hit autowound?

An unmodified 6 to hit wounds automatically would probably work. Likely need to apply it to specific units/weapons.

• Rage – Currently: +2 attacks for charging instead of +1.

Can pretty much stay the same; +1 attack if the unit charges, is charged, or performs a heroic intervention?

Agreed

• Rampage – Currently: gain +D3 attacks if outnumbered in combat.

No idea.

Likely have to look at the units that have Rampage, and give them some sort of close combat bonus.

• Relentless – Currently: can move and shoot Heavy, Salvo, or Ordinance weapons.

A bunch of other units that had this lost it.

Can likely drop Relentless, however there are some units that have a Relentless-like special rule (e.g Land Raiders)

• Rending – Currently: wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP2 or gain an addition D3 to armour penetration.

Wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP-4 (based off Genestealers).

Agreed

• Shred – Currently: re-roll wound rolls.

Damage 2?

Could likely keep re-roll wounds. Might need to consider the differences between re-roll 1s to wound and re-roll all failed wounds on weapons with Shred.

• Shrouded – Currently: Increase cover save by 2, 5+ in the open.

Something line Eldar Rangers or Space Marine Scouts or Raven Guard?

Agreed, camo-cloaks should serve as our inspiration here - however, I'm inclined to not allow stacking effects.

• Skyfire – Currently: normal BS against Flyers and Skimmers, but only snapshots at other targets.

+1 to hit against units with the FLY keyword and -1 to hit otherwise?

Agreed

• Smash – Currently: AP2 for all melee attack, can make one attack (instead of normal attacks) at 2x strength with re-rolling armour penetration.

Alternative melee profile?

Smash attacks could be an alternate weapon profile. Could also look at increasing the damage of units/weapons with Smash.

• Soul Blaze – Currently: one or more unsaved wounds and the unit has to roll each turn. 1-3, effect ends; 4-6 take D3 Str4, AP5 hits which ignore cover.

Bonus Mortal Wounds on 6s to wound?

Likely could be an unmodified 6 to wound causes a mortal wound in addition to the normal damage.

• Stealth – Currently: increase cover save by 1, 6+ in the open; stacks with Shroud.

Something line Eldar Rangers or Space Marine Scouts or Raven Guard?

Agreed, like Shrouded above, but with the caveat that we probably shouldn't have stacking effects.

• Stubborn – Currently: ignore penalties to Leadership for Morale and Pinning tests.

Only take one casualty from failed Morale test?

Agreed.

• Tank Hunters – Currently: re-roll failed armour penetration and can choose to re-roll glancing hits.

+1 damage vs units with the VEHICLE keyword?

Agreed.

• Torrent – Currently: can place flamer template up to 12” away.

16" range, 2D6 auto hits (based off Hellhound)

Agreed

• Unwieldy – Currently: Pile In and fight at Initiate 1 unless Monstrous Creature or Walker.

-1 to hit rolls?

Agreed

• Zealot – Currently: effectively Fearless and can’t Go to Ground. Re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the first round of combat.

No idea.

Could look to the Black Templars in Psychic Awakening Faith & Fury for an idea on how to implement a Zealot analogue.

 

[Gederas]

I too have thoughts:
 

Generic Special Rules (come up a bunch for special units and weapons)

• Adamantium Will – Currently: +1 to Deny the Witch tests.

5+ save against Mortal Wounds in the Psychic phase?
Likely would need to look at individual characters/units that have Adamantium Will - if they're not a Psyker, they would likely gain the ability to Deny the Witch once per Psychic Phase. If they are a Psyker, then perhaps +1 to Deny the Witch rolls?

That makes the most sense

• Armourbane – Currently: roll an addition D6 for armour penetration.

Either a minimum damage on the damage roll or roll two and pick the highest?
Probably roll two d6 for damage and take the highest

It'd make most sense for it to be a bonus to Wound against Vehicles. Because Armourbane is noted to be different to the Melta effect in 30k iirc,

• Blind – Currently: reduced to WS1 and BS1 until the end of their next turn.

No idea.
If we keep Blind, we could probably phrase it as "Units struck by this weapon/effect require unmodified 6s to hit with all of their attacks until the end of their next turn." But, unmodified 6s to hit might be too harsh - could consider a -1 to hit rolls as well.

It could be this: "Units struck by this weapon/effect are treated as having WS and BS 6+. Unmodified 6s will still result in a hit". Base it off the Ork's Dakka Dakka Dakka rule in a sense.

• Concussive – Currently: any unsaved wounds cause the model to be Initiative 1 until the end of the following Assault phase.

Was ditched in 8th with Initiative. Just remove it where it appears?
While the Initiative stat is gone, we could have a Concussive effect: "This unit must fight after all other eligible units have fought/at the end of the Fight Phase" but likely too much bookkeeping

Iirc, there's a few Slaaneshi daemons that have abilities that have that rule. So yeah, Concussive would likely be "This unit must fight after all other eligible units have fought/at the end of the Fight Phase"

• Counter-Attack- Currently: +1 attack until the end of the phase if charged and not already locked in combat.

Similarly removed (as far as I am aware) from units which had it before 8th.
This has made a sort of comeback with Angels of Death for the Space Marines, may consider adapting the new rule on a unit-by-unit basis

Agreed.

• Crusader- Currently: roll an extra die when making a Run move and use highest result. Add D3 to Sweeping Advance totals.

Re-roll Advance die?
Several options here - re-roll Advance die, roll two Advance die and take the highest, +1 to Advance rolls

Probably roll two dice for Advance, take the highest.

• Eternal Warrior – Currently: only take 1 wound instead of Instant Death.

Either all damage is halved (rounding up) or reduce damage by one (to a minimum of 1)?
I'm inclined towards reducing damage by 1 (to a minimum of 1)

I'm in agreement on reduce all damage by one (to a minimum of 1).

• Fear – Currently: take a Leadership test at start of each Fight sub-phase if in base contact with a Fear model. Fail and have WS reduced to 1 for the remainder of the phase.

Anyone know how Daemons handled this?
Alas, I don't know

They got rid of the Fear ability completely from Daemons in 8th. However, the rule for Fear there is easily replicated for 8th edition, just change it to "upon a failed Leadership test, the unit's WS becomes 6+"

• Fleet – Currently: re-roll one or more dice for Run moves and charge ranges.

+2 to Advance and Charge rolls?
Simplest is probably a bonus to Advance and Charge rolls (+1 or +2 is probably okay), but we could look at re-rolls as well

Probably +2 to Advance/Charge rolls.

• Fleshbane – Currently: wound any non-vehicle unit on a 2+.

Can probably stay the same?
Probably easiest to add a special rule to individual weapons that have this effect. Several possible effects: 6 to wound does a mortal wound, 6 to wound does multiple wounds, damage versus non-Vehicles is increased to d3.

Fabius' weapons, as well as a lot of Dark Eldar weapons have this effect in 8th.

• Furious Charge – Currently: +1 Strength until end of Assault phase on turn the model charges.

Can probably stay the same?
Agreed

I mean, isn't that the space Wolves' CT in 8th edition? :lol:

• Interceptor – Currently: at the end of the enemy movement phase fire at one unit that arrived from Reserve within range and line of sight. A weapon fired this way cannot be used in the next turn.

No idea.
Might be best to make this a Stratagem (e.g. Space Marines - Auspex Scan)

Stratagem for the most part, but some units have it built in and are dedicated fire support units (iirc, the Contemptor-Mortis and Iron Havocs both have that rule).

• It Will Not Die! - Currently: Regain a wound or hull point on a 5+ at the end of your turn.

Regain 1 wound at the beginning of your turn (based off Old One Eye).
Agreed

Yup.

• Precision Shots – Currently: firer can allocate hit if the roll to hit was a 6.
• Precision Strikes – Currently: the melee version of Precision Shots.

Neither of these really fit in with the current rule paradigm. Maybe sixes to hit autowound?
An unmodified 6 to hit wounds automatically would probably work. Likely need to apply it to specific units/weapons.

Probably 6s auto-wound, yes.

• Rage – Currently: +2 attacks for charging instead of +1.

Can pretty much stay the same; +1 attack if the unit charges, is charged, or performs a heroic intervention?
Agreed

Eyup.

• Rampage – Currently: gain +D3 attacks if outnumbered in combat.

No idea.
Likely have to look at the units that have Rampage, and give them some sort of close combat bonus.

Iirc, the Contemptor-Galatus dreadnought for the Custodes has something like Rampage. It gets +D3 attacks when it charges.

• Relentless – Currently: can move and shoot Heavy, Salvo, or Ordinance weapons.

A bunch of other units that had this lost it.
Can likely drop Relentless, however there are some units that have a Relentless-like special rule (e.g Land Raiders)

Yeah, some units kept a relentless ability.

• Rending – Currently: wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP2 or gain an addition D3 to armour penetration.

Wound rolls of 6 are resolved at AP-4 (based off Genestealers).
Agreed

Seconded.

• Shred – Currently: re-roll wound rolls.

Damage 2?
Could likely keep re-roll wounds. Might need to consider the differences between re-roll 1s to wound and re-roll all failed wounds on weapons with Shred.

Iirc, Lightning Claws had Shred and they have "re-roll failed wound rolls" as the ability on their weapon. So that'd what I'd go with.

• Shrouded – Currently: Increase cover save by 2, 5+ in the open.

Something line Eldar Rangers or Space Marine Scouts or Raven Guard?
Agreed, camo-cloaks should serve as our inspiration here - however, I'm inclined to not allow stacking effects.

Pretty much Camo Cloaks.

• Skyfire – Currently: normal BS against Flyers and Skimmers, but only snapshots at other targets.

+1 to hit against units with the FLY keyword and -1 to hit otherwise?
Agreed

SeE: Anything Imperial with the word "Icarus" in the weapon's name :lol:

• Smash – Currently: AP2 for all melee attack, can make one attack (instead of normal attacks) at 2x strength with re-rolling armour penetration.

Alternative melee profile?
Smash attacks could be an alternate weapon profile. Could also look at increasing the damage of units/weapons with Smash.

It's a different weapon profile. Gabriel Angelos' hammer has Smash/Sweep as abilities.

• Soul Blaze – Currently: one or more unsaved wounds and the unit has to roll each turn. 1-3, effect ends; 4-6 take D3 Str4, AP5 hits which ignore cover.

Bonus Mortal Wounds on 6s to wound?
Likely could be an unmodified 6 to wound causes a mortal wound in addition to the normal damage.

Soul Blaze was on Guilliman's sword in 7th Edition. So we should reference what it does in 8th Edition for the easiest time.

• Stealth – Currently: increase cover save by 1, 6+ in the open; stacks with Shroud.

Something line Eldar Rangers or Space Marine Scouts or Raven Guard?
Agreed, like Shrouded above, but with the caveat that we probably shouldn't have stacking effects.

Because we all know how annoying stacking of effects like that are :lol:

• Stubborn – Currently: ignore penalties to Leadership for Morale and Pinning tests.

Only take one casualty from failed Morale test?
Agreed.

Yup.

• Tank Hunters – Currently: re-roll failed armour penetration and can choose to re-roll glancing hits.

+1 damage vs units with the VEHICLE keyword?
Agreed.

Seconded.

• Torrent – Currently: can place flamer template up to 12” away.

16" range, 2D6 auto hits (based off Hellhound)
Agreed

That'd make the most sense.

• Unwieldy – Currently: Pile In and fight at Initiate 1 unless Monstrous Creature or Walker.

-1 to hit rolls?
Agreed

That's what everything with Unwieldy has in 8th Edition (see: Power Fists, Thunder Hammers)

• Zealot – Currently: effectively Fearless and can’t Go to Ground. Re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the first round of combat.

No idea.
Could look to the Black Templars in Psychic Awakening Faith & Fury for an idea on how to implement a Zealot analogue.

Yeah, have to reference Black Templars in Faith & Fury for that.

[Slips]

 

I too have thoughts:

 

Generic Special Rules (come up a bunch for special units and weapons)

• Armourbane – Currently: roll an addition D6 for armour penetration.

Either a minimum damage on the damage roll or roll two and pick the highest?

Probably roll two d6 for damage and take the highest

It'd make most sense for it to be a bonus to Wound against Vehicles. Because Armourbane is noted to be different to the Melta effect in 30k iirc,

8th Ed Meltaguns got 2d6 pick the highest at half range but Melta Bombs, which had armorbane, do not get any new rule. Maybe Vanquisher cannons on 8th Ed Leman Russ' have something to take inspiration from?

• Blind – Currently: reduced to WS1 and BS1 until the end of their next turn.

No idea.

If we keep Blind, we could probably phrase it as "Units struck by this weapon/effect require unmodified 6s to hit with all of their attacks until the end of their next turn." But, unmodified 6s to hit might be too harsh - could consider a -1 to hit rolls as well.

It could be this: "Units struck by this weapon/effect are treated as having WS and BS 6+. Unmodified 6s will still result in a hit". Base it off the Ork's Dakka Dakka Dakka rule in a sense.

"Units struck..." feels a bit too powerful because it means if you have a unit with multiple guns with blind you could just splitfire as many weapons as possible and make that many units suffer the effect. Change it to "Units that suffer an unsaved wound from a weapon/effect with this rule..."

• Fear – Currently: take a Leadership test at start of each Fight sub-phase if in base contact with a Fear model. Fail and have WS reduced to 1 for the remainder of the phase.

Anyone know how Daemons handled this?

Alas, I don't know

They got rid of the Fear ability completely from Daemons in 8th. However, the rule for Fear there is easily replicated for 8th edition, just change it to "upon a failed Leadership test, the unit's WS becomes 6+"

Could make it so that LD Tests are roll 2 dice take the highest or +1 to LD tests.

• Fleet – Currently: re-roll one or more dice for Run moves and charge ranges.

+2 to Advance and Charge rolls?

Simplest is probably a bonus to Advance and Charge rolls (+1 or +2 is probably okay), but we could look at re-rolls as well

Probably +2 to Advance/Charge rolls.

Could be Advance AND charge in the same turn.

• Precision Shots – Currently: firer can allocate hit if the roll to hit was a 6.
• Precision Strikes – Currently: the melee version of Precision Shots.

Neither of these really fit in with the current rule paradigm. Maybe sixes to hit autowound?

An unmodified 6 to hit wounds automatically would probably work. Likely need to apply it to specific units/weapons.

Probably 6s auto-wound, yes.

Could also make it unmodified hit OR wound rolls deal a Mortal wound in addition to normal damage.

 

 

[Noserenda]

Id remember a lot of USRs were just introduced to work around the slightly wonky architecture of earlier editions, you can just throw a load out entirely or build them into increased stats on the models profile or weapons, certainly when writing a Kill team mod the vast majority didnt add much if anything really.