When our PA arrives

[TrawlingCleaner]

A couple of months after lockdown is lifted in the UK, I would imagine. They're still to ship and sell Saga of the Beast, then it's Engine War (ad mech, knights etc) then it's us. Even if they were to condense the releases I'm not sure that will change how long we would have to wait

[infyrana]

With all these new leaks focusing on Necron's and what appears to be more Ultramarines... where/how do we see this going for the Death Guard, or have I missed them having already released PA for us ?

[happyslugger]

Are they going to squeeze our PA between now and 9th? If so not sure I will bother given the rules could be scrapped in months..

 

I got caught with buying the traitors legion book in 7th only for it to be worthless a few months later.

 

Likewise I'd rather not be one of the first armies to get a codex in 9th to only be left to rot (see what I did there) for the rest of the edition.

Edited May 23, 2020 by happyslugger

[Raktra]

They’ve said roughly 64,000 times that the codexes et all aren’t getting scrapped.

[happyslugger]

They’ve said roughly 64,000 times that the codexes et all aren’t getting scrapped.

What GW says and what GW does/means can often be two different things (IMO). Hey I'm not moaning, I will probably buy 2 box sets and have just purchased 2k worth of Harlequins...but I am not silly enough to believe all that GW preach.

 

Our PA will come and we will be happy...until the next power creep comes along and will we be left lingering again? Would rather have rules updated frequently or in the middle somewhere.

Edited May 23, 2020 by happyslugger

[Special Officer Doofy]

Yeah but all of the PA stuff will be in the next codex. Our PA is the second to last, and death guard have one of the oldest codexes out now and one of the worst winning percentages of a mono faction. I'm willing to bet DG will be one of the earlier codexes after the next edition starts. I'm for one not going to buy the PA.

[Raktra]

Your loss then, I’m gonna enjoy having a great campaign book for my army.

[happyslugger]

Your loss then, I’m gonna enjoy having a great campaign book for my army.

Not really I have my BA, Chaos Knights, custodes (don't get me started) and my new army to build and paint. I am sure we will be okay, but I just hope we are not left with old rules that are pants throughout 9th like I feel we have been in 8th.

Edited May 23, 2020 by happyslugger

[Special Officer Doofy]

Well I don't play custodes, sisters of silence or going to do biles stuff so that's probably a majority of the book that's wasted. And I feel a majority of DG's issues will take a codex to fix not just a few strats, relics and warlord traits, so I'll continue to hold off playing them for now. I feel that money is better spent elsewhere like new models. So no loss.

[Bat33.1]

With the preview yesterday saying all multi shot weapons auto get to max shots against larger units DG are going to struggle in 9th when one of the few DG mono builds that gets regular table time has blobs of poxwalkers it doesn't look like we are in for a good time in 9th without a codex reboot. How fast that comes is anybody's guess as Necrons are getting one of the first codex probably followed by Marines or a Primaris marines supplement for all the new units they are getting. 

Maybe there will be something in the rule changes that opens up some builds from the current DG codex? Unlikely but possible. I'm excited to see the rules changes and hope GW have improved the gameplay experience.

[Special Officer Doofy]

After inquisition DG has the lowest win rate of any mono faction. It can't really get much worse. We should be an earlier codex, death guard was what, the second one of 8th? True, poxwalkers might take a hit but I always preferred plague marines, taking squads of 5 with just two blight launchers for a clean 100pts. I'm sure DG will see some love, and now that verdicts out on how much better Intercessors are and tougher than plague marines, I'd be surprised if they only stay at 1W or don't get a point drop at least. I myself have alot of flamers on drones and PBC's and am looking forward to those getting max hits on swarms. If I read the preview right for 9th and tanks can shoot while fighting, we can shove our PBC's in people's faces, they can lock them in combat, and we can flame them with auto hits while still shooting our mortars at other targets. Sounds pretty decent.

 

I wouldn't hold my breathe for PA making us relevant, but don't give up on a codex. I have probably been one of the most sour chaos players since the marine dex and supplements came out to the point I quit playing, but I can't imagine with a new dex they leave us in the dust and our legion trait to just infantry and helbrutes when spaces marines went army wide. I guess time will tell.

 

Also I heard 10 models is the amount it takes for a unit to get maxed hit against. Chaos space marines only get one special weapon unless they are 10 or more. Rubrics need 10 to get their cannon. Plague marines are not held to that standard. We can have all of our specials in groups of 5. So we can do groups of 9 and still avoid being hit with max shots without sacrificing much. And horde units like poxwalkers will probably get a point reduction if the new rules turn them to poo. I feel worse for guard, nid and orc players.

 

The prospect of 9th and knowing we can't really get any worse has me excited and anxious in a good way that I haven't felt in awhile playing 40k. PA on the otherhand is like a fart building up inside of me, it's going to stink and I can't wait for it to be over with hahaha.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[TrawlingCleaner]

The blast changes Vs big units are: a new weapon type called blast, if it's multishot (eg D3/D6 etc) it automatically because max shots. This is not ALL multishot weapons, the ones they listed we're whirlwinds, Russ battle cannons, missile launchers and a couple of others.

 

It would be reasonable to assume that the plagueburst would get it as the whirlwind is, the blighthauler would get it too with the launcher. I would hazard a guess and say that blight launchers would get it. That wouldn't matter for handhelds but it would give a huge increase to the Bloat drone.

 

Our plaguebursts can't get tagged anymore, predators can't get tagged anymore.

 

They do mention points changes in the 9th announcement FAQ thing, so I'd say it's reasonable for us to assume we'll get at least a few changes

 

Obviously we're yet to see what PA bring but if it's on par with TS I think we're in for a treat.

 

DG may not be the most competitive, but they are (IMO) the most fun faction I've ever played. If their competitive ranking is boosted I really hope that their fun level stays the same or increases

[Special Officer Doofy]

Thanks for clearing that up about the blast weapon type.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Thanks for clearing that up about the blast weapon type.

No worries. Just be clear they haven't said the threshold of the number of models in the unit that these blast weapons get their max shots. It could be more than 10 or it could be 20, we'll likely find out on Tuesday evening 7pm(BST) when they do a table talk with the rules designers

[Special Officer Doofy]

I thought I saw valrak and some other people I know that get leaks mentioned 10. Obviously until I get the rulebook in hand I'm taking everything with a grain of salt.

[McElMcNinja]

Having PBC's shoot 6 shots vs d6 will be a great boost. If on top of that they can shoot their spitters while in combat, I might be adding some back to my list. It really depends on what they consider a horde. Right now most marine armies don't run units of 10+ models. To bad it's not units with 10+ wounds, so that unit of 5 primaris would count.

 

My biggest hope (I know I shouldn't) is that we can use the new reserve rules to keep Morty off the table for a turn or two.

 

As far as our PA goes, I think we will get a strat to fight again or fight on death. That would be on par with other armies have received. Another strat to re-roll all plague weapon wound rolls vs only failed (from Arch Contaminator) or rolls of 1's (standard plague weapon rules).

[Wolf Lord Loki]

As far as our PA goes, I think we will get a strat to fight again or fight on death. That would be on par with other armies have received. Another strat to re-roll all plague weapon wound rolls vs only failed (from Arch Contaminator) or rolls of 1's (standard plague weapon rules).

I like this idea. What about instead of fighting on death we do something like collapse into a pus filled mess causing extra wounds or something?

 

"any fatalities cause D3 mortal wounds as plague spores are released from the moldering corpse?"

[Plague _Lord]

Can't wait to play DG with better terrain rules. No more shadowswords shooting my land raider through a tiny window with only sight to an antenna or trophy rack would be grand.

 

I think we would be much better with these rules alone.

[Bulwyf]

I would like to see DG at least competitive. The problem with getting the second codex in 8th (I think it was second) means we've waited all this time for real updates. We are getting a passing nod in whatever PA book is coming out but with 9th now here...who cares? 

 

The cruel irony is that while we got one of the first codexes in 8th it means we missed out on the power creep in 8th. If we get one of the first codexes in 9th it will only repeat the pattern. I would rather wait to get a 9th codex to get some of the power creep versus suffering an entire edition from it.

[happyslugger]

I would like to see DG at least competitive. The problem with getting the second codex in 8th (I think it was second) means we've waited all this time for real updates. We are getting a passing nod in whatever PA book is coming out but with 9th now here...who cares?

 

The cruel irony is that while we got one of the first codexes in 8th it means we missed out on the power creep in 8th. If we get one of the first codexes in 9th it will only repeat the pattern. I would rather wait to get a 9th codex to get some of the power creep versus suffering an entire edition from it.

This is what I said a few posts up.

 

I'm not getting too excited as it could all end in tears lol. But we need a massive dose of something to even compete with 8th power creep. If we get an early revamp we might be left to rot for the whole of 9th edition...

[Bulwyf]

 

I would like to see DG at least competitive. The problem with getting the second codex in 8th (I think it was second) means we've waited all this time for real updates. We are getting a passing nod in whatever PA book is coming out but with 9th now here...who cares?

 

The cruel irony is that while we got one of the first codexes in 8th it means we missed out on the power creep in 8th. If we get one of the first codexes in 9th it will only repeat the pattern. I would rather wait to get a 9th codex to get some of the power creep versus suffering an entire edition from it.

This is what I said a few posts up.

 

I'm not getting too excited as it could all end in tears lol. But we need a massive dose of something to even compete with 8th power creep. If we get an early revamp we might be left to rot for the whole of 9th edition...

 

 

That's my fear. I play other armies as well and sadly for me I waited forever in 8th to get Space Wolves codex...and it was terrible. Our PA update was terrible. We remain one of the worst armies in 8th. Same as DG. So waiting for a codex does not mean you get something worth the wait. 

 

That being said I would rather wait for power creep than be a victim of it. So many armies in 8th have our DG rules and better versions of it. DG need some major love to bring it to snuff. 

[trees]

Yeah it has been frustrating waiting for nothing through the Vigilus campaign and then waiting for PA to the point that a new edition gets announced first. I believe since Space Marines got a new codex Death Guard has the oldest codex in the game now.  So now it's a pickle of spending most of 9th with this ancient codex or a new codex that again is the first to become outdated.  I'm trying not to be too biased, since this my main army, but I question GWs business sense of this since as a starter set army it's one a lot of new 40k players play.  Also I wonder how much is intended for this to be a cheap starter army that leaves you wanting a different one eventually, or to soup it with other chaos. 

 

Ultimately there are too many factions for them to all be treated equally, but this could have been mitigated by giving us rules in Vigilus, or better buffs in CAs, or an early PA since we have the oldest dex, or even just a white dwarf article.

[WickedJester1013]

I just want deathguard to feel as tough as the fluff makes them out to be. It was really sad seeing iron hands as better deathguard. Your selling your soul when Apperently you should just replace some parts with machines lol

 

In all serious I want deathguard to feel like old horror movies like Jason from Halloween where no matter what he just keeps coming at you. What is blight launchers had some pinning effect. We are slow sure but every one can just run away from the poor ol lord of contagion.

 

I would love to see a lot of things to mess with the enemies movement. Sticky blight launchers, summon a swamp or pyskic marsh or swamp to bog troops down, just something that couples well with our slow rotten bums

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm hoping the Death Guard's buff in PA is not like Thousand Sons. That makes it Detatchment based, which is going to be nerfed in 9th. Space Marines get a mono bonus, and their answer to chaos complainers about the power creep has been essentially "shut up and soup". From the sounds of it, in 9th you have to pay CP for more Detatchments. I've already thought our issues couldn't be fixed with PA and it would take a codex, and the teases of 9th makes me think that even more.

[Plague _Lord]

So nurgle daemons got new strats and some additions to greater daemons and ... that's it.

 

Large Nurgling hordes got a boost so that might be thing now. 162pts for 36 wounds isn't too bad and there are ways to make them come back to life. 

 

The nurgle strats are pretty meh though:

 

1. Gives plaguebearers auto-wounds on unmodified 6's to hit (meh).

2. Gives beasts of nurgle additional mortal wounds on 6's to wound (quite good).

3. plague drones explode upon death for a mortal wound - applicable to all units within 6'', works on a 2+ (gimmicky - throwing a big unit into a knight and hoping to lose 3-4 models so they dish out 4 MW to every unit within 6'' might be fun, but I don't think it's a good strategy)

4. destroyed nurgling bases come back to life on a 5+ (only ones destroyed this phase).

 

 

I do have a GuO though and maybe taking a patrol detachment with an exalted GuO + Nurgling horde might be not bad. I you manage to roll a 1 & 2 for the exalted table then you get a T8 18W 5++, 4++ tank that is a quite capabe caster and very hard to take down.

 

It is bound to be FaQ'd but at the moment it is possible to use the strat say 5 times on 1 GuO, taking +1 to DR rolls and then rolling the other times, hoping to get the +1 to DR rolls a few more times. So RAW we can have a 2+ DR GuO, even though it might cost us all our CP.

 

Fun!