When our PA arrives

[angrom]

Hahahahaha.    we might have a god-killer level deamon prince now.

Daemon prince with sword have 5 attack in charge with damage 3

 

 

with a nurgle daemon detachment character in range for loci of virulence (6+ to wound = +1 damage).

psychic powers:
- Virulent blessing (+1 to wound and 7+ double the damage)

- Blade of putrefaction (+1 to wound and mortals on 7+)

stratagem:

1 cp for +3 attack with hellsword

1 cp for creeping plague (+1 damage and 6 to wound ap -4)

1 cp VOTLW (+1 to wound)

 

Shoot at the target to obliterate with the relic pistol (not required)

and send your nuclear bomb daemon prince:

 

It is 8 attacks hit on 2+ reroll

wound anything on 2+ reroll

roll of 1-2 = 4 Damage flat /attack

roll 3 = 5 Damage flat/attack

roll 4-6 = 10 Damage flat/attack + 1 mortal wound

 

This guy can kill 2 mortarions or 2 baneblades in one fight phase

   

Edited June 14, 2020 by angrom

[BlackTriton]

 

I swear people complaining about this release are sleeping on the best part of it.

No, people are complaining about the bandaid and having to utilize CP and relics to make unplayable units playable. There are some good stuff in there but most of it is to make our terrible characters less terrible. Our legion trait still only applies to infantry and brutes, and half of it just got applied to every vehicle in the game come 9th. We have no mono bonus. No secondary trait. No access to dark Herecticus. Just a bunch of bandaids. We can give stuff DR for CP, but our stuff should have gotten it anyways. Not to mention half of the stuff we got is Detatchment gated, and now you have to spend CP to get another Detatchment. But "PA was done with 9th in mind"... Right and GW doesn't care about money and just wants a balanced game...

 

 

complaining about not having space marine level of rules is a very popular opinion throughout all armies right now, even those that can fight on their level.

We just tripled our number of stratagem / relic / warlord trait in the first ever addition to deathguard.

for the first time you can actually use your CP to make the units you take actually do something good.

and our notoriously bad elite slot characters now have options that makes them a good take, same for plague marines. 

 

If this is a bandaid, its a damn good one and miles ahead of what most amies got in PA. Take the win man.

 

DG needs a new codex altogether for sure and we will get there at some point no doubt. in the meanwhile this update if very welcome and does breathes new life in the ol'deathguard.

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

Eh, It's not a genuine win though, PA stands for "Participation Award". Everyone got something. One won and got a new codex/supplements/rules and the rest got participation awards. And maybe we faired better then most coming out of PA, and that's because we were near in dead last going in. I never said none of this was not welcome or cool, but a band-aid's a band-aid.

 

And I thought I heard they are capping modifiers to hit. I wonder if that will stretch over to wounding as well.

[MasterDeath]

Oh, I really like the Miserable. Being able to deepstrike a character and let him summon with a guaranted 8-13 is exactly what I want.

[BrainFireBob]

So, will it be worth it to babysit PBCs with entropic cannons with a Plague Surgeon? Make the Entropic cannons plague weapons with minimum damage 3, reroll 1's and 2's to wound. Will it need a CSM lord for reroll 1's?

[jgascoine011]

 

 

I swear people complaining about this release are sleeping on the best part of it.

No, people are complaining about the bandaid and having to utilize CP and relics to make unplayable units playable. There are some good stuff in there but most of it is to make our terrible characters less terrible. Our legion trait still only applies to infantry and brutes, and half of it just got applied to every vehicle in the game come 9th. We have no mono bonus. No secondary trait. No access to dark Herecticus. Just a bunch of bandaids. We can give stuff DR for CP, but our stuff should have gotten it anyways. Not to mention half of the stuff we got is Detatchment gated, and now you have to spend CP to get another Detatchment. But "PA was done with 9th in mind"... Right and GW doesn't care about money and just wants a balanced game...

 

 

complaining about not having space marine level of rules is a very popular opinion throughout all armies right now, even those that can fight on their level.

We just tripled our number of stratagem / relic / warlord trait in the first ever addition to deathguard.

for the first time you can actually use your CP to make the units you take actually do something good.

and our notoriously bad elite slot characters now have options that makes them a good take, same for plague marines. 

 

If this is a bandaid, its a damn good one and miles ahead of what most amies got in PA. Take the win man.

 

DG needs a new codex altogether for sure and we will get there at some point no doubt. in the meanwhile this update if very welcome and does breathes new life in the ol'deathguard.

 

 

 

Sorry mate but toally disagree with you.

Its not even a bandaid. Everything given in strats doesnt help out what DG suck at, and a lot of them seem to be pointless going into 9th anyway.

 

The good strats we got

The +6" range is only good for grenades....which ok is useful but it will still be so hard to pull off. And that really is about the only useful strat 

The +1A and +1D strats are again good...but they will be best used to a big blob of 20 PM...which people were already doing. There problem was not damage but getting there.

The re-roll 1s for LoC...should have just gotten the rule, its dumb you have to pay a CP for it

The DR for vehicles can be okay, but can eat into your CP. Its good for the odd hellbrute or if running tripple land raider, but again, should have gotten the rule

 

The rest are all just garbage.

Why would you spend CP to deepstrike poxwalkers???

Why would you spend CP for fire bolters twice???????

Why would you spend CP to make bolters slightly better????

Why would you spend CP to give a vehicle intoxerible advance (a rule it should aready have and is completley pointless in 9th)

Exploding terminators? Really, a unit of 10 wound do 5MW. I have just lost a 400point unit to do 5MW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Basically

Did terminators get a way to charge out of combat reliably? No...so they are still garbage

Did the BPC get a way to do more than an average of <1 wound per turn with its mortar? No...oh and with 9th coming up, entropy cannons look even more pointless, so there is another useless strat.

Did PM get a way to not die to a slight stiff breeze? No...so they are still massivly overpointed.

Did the plague spitters get a way to actually hurt something other than T3 guardmen? No

Do DG still suck and probably the worst fraction right now? Hell Yes.

 

 

What got better

Big blob of PM...already the only viable way to play them

Daemon princes....already the best HQ option we have

Foul Blightspawn...already running 3 of them

Land raiders/Hellbrutes...Ok i will give you that with DR these did get better

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I noticed that there was a Strat to make bolters plague weapons 'until the end of the shooting phase'

 

Plus a fire twice strategem.

 

Plus the 6" extra for plague now applies.

 

If you apply all of those on a large enough squad armed with bolt guns that happens to be near an Arch Contaminator....

 

As per usual we probably require more synergy than a point and click army

[DuskRaider]

Some of this should have already been incorporated into DG rules from the start. That you have to spend CP to make it happen is bunk.

 

Maybe we'll see them already part of stats and special rules in 8th, but PM are still point for durability way more expensive than they should be. By a lot. The thing is, I don't want them to be cheaper. I want them to be tougher.

[jgascoine011]

I noticed that there was a Strat to make bolters plague weapons 'until the end of the shooting phase'

 

Plus a fire twice strategem.

 

Plus the 6" extra for plague now applies.

 

If you apply all of those on a large enough squad armed with bolt guns that happens to be near an Arch Contaminator....

 

As per usual we probably require more synergy than a point and click army

 

Squad of 20PM is over 300 points

At rapid fire range, wounding on 4s re-rolling, vs 3+save models and with arch contaminator, thats around 22 wounds, at the cost of 3CP (4 if using VOTLW) which is pretty decent.

Problem is, it is laughable that you are getting 20PM all into rapid fire range of 18", and by the time this book drops, 9th is just around the corner.

Have fun getting shot in the face with battle cannons shooting 12 shots each at you. Better hope for 1st turn for cloud of flys or say bye to that squad.

 

If you could put this combo on terminators then it would be decent, but alas, it looks like you cant

 

Actually that is another really stupid thing with this PA. Lots of half decent strats only seem to effect PM....why???????

Infecting rounds, +1 to DR, Mismatic Sickness etc

[Dark Legionnare]

Actually that is another really stupid thing with this PA. Lots of half decent strats only seem to effect PM....why???????

Infecting rounds, +1 to DR, Mismatic Sickness etc

I remember folks saying most of the PA's were all designed around the same time last year, probably before the CA points changes too.

 

My guess, they didn't playtest enough to realize just how brutal the AP diff even just going up -1 for marines via doctrines would be to an army that relies/survives on/by making rolls not happen before (higher toughness, 3+ save) it gets to a 33% chance DR on a 1W model.

 

I play many factions. My orks don't give a damn about doctrines, my Custodes do A BIT, but not too much, but damn.... My Plague Marines do. When basic bolt rifles are AP-2 out in the open of no cover, those 5+ saves get felt FAST.

 

Unlike plasma, which is dangerous AP too, wounding on 3's, but not double tapping at 30", and costs 11 points instead of "free."

 

So this PM splurge you mention was probably meant to add new love to the lads before they became a big liability basically.

 

I stubbornly stayed fluffy with 7 man PM squads, at least 3 squads every game, until doctrines arrived. Even then, my stubbornness for fluff couldn't hold out. PM's were getting wiped aside with ease by bolt rifles so much, I had to pivot to at least 10 blight lords a game.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dark Legionnare

[jgascoine011]

This is what i would have like to see if DG ever get a new codex

 

1) Get rid of arch contaminator. It is a massive crutch for DG and is a WLT that is taken in every game.

2) Different rules for different DG factions, with being pure DG giving you something unique.

3) Everyone with blight grenades should be able to throw them without costing you CP. Its cool, fluffy and not actually that powerful

4) PM going to 2 wounds and both terminator going to 3 wounds

5) The foul blightspawn, putrifier etc loosing a wound,

6) The blightspawn loosing the character keyword, and his stupid poinltess 2D6 grenade, but being able to be taken in units of 3, and a huge points drop, like around 30ppm

7) The putrifier also loosing the character keyword but being a unit upgrade for PM squad. They are only ever with PM and are pointless otherwise. Also huge points drop to like 15ppm

8) The PBC mortar being flat Heavy 6, BS3+

9) PBC stratagem: 1/2CP, 1 PBC can fire twice for 1CP or up to 3 PBC  for 2CP if moved under half range

10) PBC stratagem, 1/2CP, 1 PBC re-rolls to wound and ignores cover 1CP or up to 3 PBC for 2CP

11) Plague surgeon, re-roll DR for infantry, pox-walkers can only re-roll DR of 1

12) Someway for PM to get a 4+DR, either through legion trait/strat or generic strat

13) Ability to buy plague rounds for bolters/combi-bolters. 1ppm gains plague weapon rule

14) Plague weapon rule changes to being re-roll 1s to wound and unmodified 6s are AP-4

15) Hellbrute stratagem: 1CP Gains character keyword and DR

16) Ability to take more heavy blight launchers on more units

17) Ability to take 2nd special weapon/heavy weapon should require units of 7+, not 5+

18) LoC getting an decent special rule

19) Strat to allow the blight drones to scout move pre 1st turn

 

 

I just want to mention my thoughts on points 8, 9 and 10.

Taking 3 PBC would give you 18 S8 AP-2 D2 shots at BS3+....the same as obliterators

For 4 CP you could fire 36 S8 AP-2 D2 shots, that re-roll to wound, so vs a Knight that would be 4s, re-rolling

For 4 CP obliterators are putting out the same number of shots, and with RVT and VOTLW are actually averaging slightly higher S, AP and D, so are probably wounding on 3s or 2s

Obliterators are cheaper, but have less wounds etc, but are better in combat

 

With those changes, DG would be able to have a decent game.

 

I play a game b4 the lockdown vs admech with like 4 or 5 robots with each one doing 18 S6 AP-2 shots, hitting on 3s re-rolling with cawl and MW on 6s. Just what are death guard suppossed to do against that right now? And in 9th it looks only to get worse. And the PA does not seem to help much

The mortars have better range and ignore LOS but the obliterators can deepstrike

[TrawlingCleaner]

IMO, it definitely would have been cool to get more strats that other factions can't do rather than a few that allow us to (poorly) copy Astartes.

 

The more I look at these strats the more it's painfully obvious that the codex needs to be brought in line with the newer ones. When 9th drops, we will currently have the oldest book in the game and it shows.

 

While I do think there are plenty of negatives with the PA book, I do think there are lots of positives but also lots of postitives for 9th ed too.

 

Pox walkers being able to deepstrike is so useful imo. Deepstriking 2 units means that you can  put a lot of pressure on the enemy quite quickly which is quite tasty if you've got typhus deepstriking too as that's  40 models potentially in the enemy's back lines that are all T4/T5. As well as the outflanking rules that are coming in 9th ed we do  have a good few ways of getting some units up the board

 

As others have said, Melee blobs of PM were already a good way of running them but now these new strats make them better. I already ran a Tallyman every game so I'll probably be sticking with Mortarion's Anvil most of the time

 

The Lord of Contagion CP (at least in the current translation) does not exclude Typhus which may make him a bit of better pick up for those that already used him or were thinking about it, it would make him a lot better at force multiplying

 

While there aren't many competitive strats, I am glad that we still have plenty of fun strats

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Anyone know what the "exploding 6's" mean?

 

Seen it a few times in the rumours

[Plague _Lord]

The problem is that it,'s hard to go double battalion with our HQs being so expensive and the cheapest we can get is for 270pts - 2 useless chaos lords and 3 cultist squads. But then we still need to fill our regular battlion with troops, so another 150 for minimum poxwalkers. Now that we have 13 cps we can spend half of the pre-game to buff units and still have sone to use during the game... But wait! There's no sense in taking pm's now since we have filled all tge required troop slots and if we do take them, we aren't taking something killy.

 

Tbh some of our elite charachters should just be a cheap hq choice (tallyman for instance).

[TrawlingCleaner]

Anyone know what the "exploding 6's" mean?

 

Seen it a few times in the rumours

It's generally: "on a 6 to hit score an additional hit" soemtimes it's only on an unmodified 6 too

[jgascoine011]

To be fair, the Creeping Plague Strat does seem pretty decent.

A LoC with the Ferryman's Scythe could put out 5A at S8 Ap-3 and D4

Give him VOTLW / Blades of Putrfication / Puresient Vitality and you would be S9, hitting on 2s, re-rolling, wounding on 2s, re-rolling, doing a mortal wound on 5+ and 2 mortal wound on a 6+

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Also there was a reference to a Plague Fist.

 

I sometimes refer to the great plague cleaver as a Plague fist?

[jgascoine011]

Also there was a reference to a Plague Fist.

 

I sometimes refer to the great plague cleaver as a Plague fist?

I think its a bad translation for the plague gauntlets

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Creeping Plague (1CP): Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase when a DG unit in your army gets chosen to fight. Until the end of the phase add 1 to Damage characteristics for attacks and unmodified wound rolls of 6 get -4 AP

 

 

This could be utterly terrifying on a unit with Flails

[Lord_Caerolion]

I guess I should be glad there's a way I can give my Terminator Sorceror DR instead of him being significantly easier to kill than everyone else in the army. Just a shame that it's only via Stratagem, and not just changed to an army-wide rule for non-Vehicles.

[Someguy11]

Major changes to datasheets will be in a new codex. Only Space Marines get white dwarf articles that change things to make sense. Happy that Daemon Princes have a plague sword now at least if you use a relic slot. Edited June 16, 2020 by Someguy11

[happyslugger]

Well as both a DG and Custodes player....I wont be rushing out to purchase the book!

[jgascoine011]

Well as both a DG and Custodes player....I wont be rushing out to purchase the book!

 

Custodes got a decent set of strats

Terminators ignoring AP-1 and -2, while having a 4++ is huge. Did they also get the "only wound on 4+" strat

Double tap bolters is decent

tbf thats all i have seen lol

[Bulwyf]

I agree with some of the angrier comments. These upgrades are what we should already have as basic army rules. DR should apply to anything in our army. Most of the new strats apply only to PM which is nice but PM still are only one 1 wound. They need to be 2 wound and termies should be 3 wound. 

[WickedJester1013]

I also would love to see deathguard gain a wound and think the durability of the new primaris is crazy(t5 4 wound bikes). But if intercessors are going to 20 points in 9th then plaguemarines would be way more than 20 points since we have t5 3+\5+++ already. Sure intercessors also pay for the better gun but I would hate to pay20-25 points base for a plague marine. But who knows maybe the math helps us way more and justifies the points.

 

Also I’d love to see out plague knives buffed since we don’t get chainswords. The previews have mentioned that Astartes chainswords are going to be stronger(-1ap i hear) and already give +1 attack. Hell even GSC cultist knives give +1 attack.