Prot does the Scars

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

When you say you're doing your wash all over the model are you doing this with an airbrush?  I'm a little confused as I'm starting to learn to airbrush while also learning to brush a bit better.  Or are you using the airbrush flow improver just to make the paint more fluid?  I'm mostly asking cause my game with washes needs a bit of improvement and I look at the clean paint jobs (and while your models above are not "clean" the controlled mayhem is basically the same thing) of many online and go.....well maybe if I just connect the cables in my brain it'll work out better.

Oil washes will get you the cleanest wash game there is.  Oils have very little surface tension compared to acrylic washes so they flow very quickly around the recesses of a model.  Furthermore, you can easily clean up using a brush or qtips leaving little or no staining.  

The only thing I dont like about them is that they dont have a matte effect that GW washes have.  So if you use an oil wash on metallic colours they wont have a muted stained metal look.  They will be bright as heck with a flawless pin wash in the recess.  I like stained/muted metals better ><

[Prot]

When you say you're doing your wash all over the model are you doing this with an airbrush?  I'm a little confused as I'm starting to learn to airbrush while also learning to brush a bit better.  Or are you using the airbrush flow improver just to make the paint more fluid?  I'm mostly asking cause my game with washes needs a bit of improvement and I look at the clean paint jobs (and while your models above are not "clean" the controlled mayhem is basically the same thing) of many online and go.....well maybe if I just connect the cables in my brain it'll work out better.

 

So a few questions here:

- I apply all washes on the white scars with a physical brush. (Other armies I use an airbrush, mostly Custodes with all those ridges on their armour).

 

- The brush applied version is different than painting. You are pushing an amount of washes into place. Not painting the whole model. It's hard to explain but you want wash sitting in recesses, and on some surfaces so even though you use a combination of downward strokes, and 'pushing' the wash into the model, the downward motions can be almost destructive or counter productive if you over do it. It's very much a feel thing. The thing is with 'pushing' the paint on, you have to watch it, and make sure you are whisking away the build up at the bottom of large panels before it tries. Just don't siphon it away from grooves, or bolts, etc.

 

- I thin with mostly flow improver because that's what I want to do. I want a smooth, even flow across the model without evidence of brush hair streaking (or at least minimize that effect). Water really doesn't do that. It can just make the washes runny, but the consistency is wrong. 

 

I hope that helps.

[Johanhgg]

Thanks for the thourough answer brother. I didnt know those things about you. Thanks for sharing them!

[6262]

 

When you say you're doing your wash all over the model are you doing this with an airbrush?  I'm a little confused as I'm starting to learn to airbrush while also learning to brush a bit better.  Or are you using the airbrush flow improver just to make the paint more fluid?  I'm mostly asking cause my game with washes needs a bit of improvement and I look at the clean paint jobs (and while your models above are not "clean" the controlled mayhem is basically the same thing) of many online and go.....well maybe if I just connect the cables in my brain it'll work out better.

Oil washes will get you the cleanest wash game there is.  Oils have very little surface tension compared to acrylic washes so they flow very quickly around the recesses of a model.  Furthermore, you can easily clean up using a brush or qtips leaving little or no staining.  

The only thing I dont like about them is that they dont have a matte effect that GW washes have.  So if you use an oil wash on metallic colours they wont have a muted stained metal look.  They will be bright as heck with a flawless pin wash in the recess.  I like stained/muted metals better ><

 

 

Do the brush on matte varnishes take care of the problem pretty well?  I picked up a pot of Stormshield recently to try and fix what happened from a pot of Devlan Mud that was incredibly glossy now that it is nearly gone; and that seemed to help tamp down the gloss effect a good bit.  

 

I watched a few videos about oil washing after y'all talking about them.  Do you usually push for a premade like the Tamiya stuff; or just make it with some enamel paints and spirits?  I don't really have any of those things on hand so I'm going to have to look into what I can actually find at a decent price.  Would those tiny testors pots work as a decent way to give it a test run? 

 

@Prot is flow improver the same thing as painting medium?  I've been using an airbrush but only in the most rudimentary sense.  A few of the local folks talk about cutting paint with Windex or similar which seems like an odd choice to me; but does that accomplish the same purpose?  

[Prot]

No flow improver is different. I user premade stuff. I used to make some of it, but I can't be bothered anymore, but you can save some money.

 

Anyway flow improver basically changes the properties of the paint, helping it to flow better, and painting medium is meant to do what it says. Think of flow improver as something meant to change the consistency of the paint, without altering the paint itself.

 

Water helps at the end. I use water at the end when I want to basically 'remove' wash from the model. I don't put water in the wash or paint.  

 

Medium is like a dilution method. Medium acrylics are diluting the pigment count by increasing the volume of the base medium, but of course the medium doesn't have pigment in it, so it simply dilutes the product, without altering it's composition with something foreign like water does.

 

Don't over think it. Just try some experimenting. When I'm applying the stuff all I'm saying is don't just brush it on like a paint, or you end up dragging too much of it.

 

I apply the varnish to help the Flow Improver do its job. I do so with an airbrush 90% of the time because of my fear of getting brush strokes on a model. You can use a rattle can varnish, lightly. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

I just did some eldar wraiths with pure washes over airbrushed varnish and it looks great, but with vehicles it's much harder with all the large, flat panels. This is why it helps to hit the panels after with some zenithal highlights.

 

I'll try to remember a picture to show you. One thing I won't do though it put water in the washes especially. It just screws up the colour and you get this slight separation of the base pigment and the water. 

 

The water almost acts like a 'repellent' to the pigment and the 'medium' it's mixed in. That's why I think Medium is just that... it's the base medium (often acrylic) that your pigments are attached to. When you add water it changes the composition of it, and I notice separation.

 

I've gone way off topic here, but that's it in a nutshell. I don't use Windex anymore. I used to use it to 'rinse' or clean the airbrush but it can be used as a wash base, so can floor polish. But that's another topic.

 

Hope that helps. 

(Like I said I'll take some pics, you'll see it's far from perfect, but I allow for mistakes to cover with the airbrush).

[6262]

Thanks for going into detail on all this. Painting often feels like a series of superstitions and mysticism.

 

And White Scars are a departure from everything I've done in the past painting DW and Tyranids which had fairly forgiving models and color schemes. The Scars are making me look at just how sloppy my painting is.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

When you say you're doing your wash all over the model are you doing this with an airbrush?  I'm a little confused as I'm starting to learn to airbrush while also learning to brush a bit better.  Or are you using the airbrush flow improver just to make the paint more fluid?  I'm mostly asking cause my game with washes needs a bit of improvement and I look at the clean paint jobs (and while your models above are not "clean" the controlled mayhem is basically the same thing) of many online and go.....well maybe if I just connect the cables in my brain it'll work out better.

Oil washes will get you the cleanest wash game there is.  Oils have very little surface tension compared to acrylic washes so they flow very quickly around the recesses of a model.  Furthermore, you can easily clean up using a brush or qtips leaving little or no staining.  

The only thing I dont like about them is that they dont have a matte effect that GW washes have.  So if you use an oil wash on metallic colours they wont have a muted stained metal look.  They will be bright as heck with a flawless pin wash in the recess.  I like stained/muted metals better ><

 

 

Do the brush on matte varnishes take care of the problem pretty well?  I picked up a pot of Stormshield recently to try and fix what happened from a pot of Devlan Mud that was incredibly glossy now that it is nearly gone; and that seemed to help tamp down the gloss effect a good bit.  

 

I watched a few videos about oil washing after y'all talking about them.  Do you usually push for a premade like the Tamiya stuff; or just make it with some enamel paints and spirits?  I don't really have any of those things on hand so I'm going to have to look into what I can actually find at a decent price.  Would those tiny testors pots work as a decent way to give it a test run? 

 

@Prot is flow improver the same thing as painting medium?  I've been using an airbrush but only in the most rudimentary sense.  A few of the local folks talk about cutting paint with Windex or similar which seems like an odd choice to me; but does that accomplish the same purpose?  

 

 

I have only used My Hobby oil washes so I cannot speak for all of them.

 

Just to reiterate... when you use a standard GW wash on metallic paint it dulls down the metal shine and settles into the recesses of  it.  When you use an oil wash on metallic paint it just settles into the recess.  What you end up with is a shiny metal surface and thin darkened recesses.  There is nothing wrong with this I just happen to prefer standard washes for metallics.  Dirty metal is cool!

 

Mr Hobby washes do leave a shiny glossy film whenever you use it but it goes away when they dry(this only takes about 30 mins with Mr Hobby).  Matte varnish does work to remove any shiny that an oil wash might leave.    

[Prot]

Here's a picture of how messy I leave this army after washes have dried:

So this is before I tone down the washes with bone-to-white airbrush pops, and then decal work before it is brought back down with damage of various types.

I had an epic battle vs. Blood Angels. Incredible game on both sides. Looking to do up a batrep shortly.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How long does it take to build the Impulsor Prot ?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Here's a picture of how messy I leave this army after washes have dried:

 

 

 

So this is before I tone down the washes with bone-to-white airbrush pops, and then decal work before it is brought back down with damage of various types.

 

I had an epic battle vs. Blood Angels. Incredible game on both sides. Looking to do up a batrep shortly.

 

Heh... I've been pin washing or oil washing for months now.  Nothing on my desk is ever this messy!  Are you using masking for the scars?

[Prot]

How long does it take to build the Impulsor Prot ?

 

I want to say about 45 minutes. I do two at a time, so I'd guestimate these 2 took me just over an hour together.

 

Just as a side note here is a bit of post clean up after the wash stage above:

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Oh great I might build one this weekend. Thanks !

[Jacques Corbin]

So, what are you thinking for tactics? How do Primaris White Scars play? I mean, traditionally WS are hunters. For Bison, you drive the herd, you run down the choicest bulls, and kill them with arrows and spears. For deer and elk, you stalk them until you line up your shot. For bear and boar, you chase/lure them into pitfalls/killzones, because they have to be worn down, like a war of attrition, before you go in for the kill. For mountain goats, and big horn rams, they use the terrain well to their advantage, and the hunter must be very careful, and very patient. Then, there are the predators that hunt you while you are hunting them. Surely there are parallels and comparisons to be made between various xenos and heretics, and the above mentioned quarry.

[Prot]

So, what are you thinking for tactics? How do Primaris White Scars play? I mean, traditionally WS are hunters. For Bison, you drive the herd, you run down the choicest bulls, and kill them with arrows and spears. For deer and elk, you stalk them until you line up your shot. For bear and boar, you chase/lure them into pitfalls/killzones, because they have to be worn down, like a war of attrition, before you go in for the kill. For mountain goats, and big horn rams, they use the terrain well to their advantage, and the hunter must be very careful, and very patient. Then, there are the predators that hunt you while you are hunting them. Surely there are parallels and comparisons to be made between various xenos and heretics, and the above mentioned quarry.

 

 

Well it's taken a while. I've come to a few moments of self discovery with the army and it plays into tactics for sure:

 

- They aren't as punchy as Space Wolves, nor as flat out powerful as Blood Angels in assault, however White Scars have more tricks (via Strats, Relics, and Psychic)

 

- You may want to go flat out assault. You just can't. Some guys are trying pure assault troops in Impulsors, but it's a bad match up away from getting punked hard by anti vehicle. It's a great idea (imo) though if you are facing near pure infantry opponents.

 

- Since the game is still primarily about shooting, and other armies can hit harder than White Scars in assault, I think a minimum of 45% of the army has to be shooty. Possessed, Blood Angels Characters, etc, are still too nasty to dance with. White Scars have to take advantage of units that offset that balance: IE TFCs, Aggressors, "Encirclement" Centurions, etc, etc. 

 

- The Super Doctrine of course is huge, but the way 40K works right now, a LOT of games are decided by T3 so you need patience for sure. It's so easy to over extend before you're ready or before you can support properly. However that said, a vanilla Primaris with 2 damage punches, or 4 Damage Hammers are no joke. Coupled with the White Scars Litany on a Chappy and you're in business if you can keep it alive to T3.

 

It's a cagey army. Some of the units I overlooked originally are decent. I disagree with the bulk of advice I originally took stating, 'bikes are bad'. They are so good with the combination of strats from WS, and Marines. Turbioing across the board, shooting assaulting, 3++ invulns from shooting. It's something that's very usable against a large array of opponents and can't be ignored. (I'd MUCH rather see Primaris jetbikes come out, but even then, the way GW ports over Primaris stuff it usually starts way too expensive, and doesn't have special weapons options.)

 

So far it's a very challenging army to play but amazingly plays so different from my Ultra's. It's a lot of fun but far easier to mess this army up in your early turns. :)

[Prot]

Hobby Update time:

I'm calling both Impulsors done:

[Jacques Corbin]

The Impulsors look great!

[Johanhgg]

Great impulsors

[Prot]

Guys here is one of my latest Battle Reports. 
 
It took a really long time to write up and I posted it on the blog with some pictures. HERE. (White Scars vs. Death Guard.)
 
I'd like to talk more about it here, but I'm in a rush out the door..... if you don't want to read it, and don't care about spoiling the ending then click the spoiler tag:

 

White Scars take the narrow win. In T4 the Death Guard Conceded.

[Prot]

I really wanted to do a repaint on Khan.

To a degree I don't know if you can see it from pictures but I needed to redo the armour, and then touch up the details and I felt the entire head needed a repaint to get the skin tones right.

Anyway, here he is:

From my game last night VS. Orks (9th ed).

Repaint (touch up) on the vehicles in progress:

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Excellent work on the Khan.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Fierce looking Khan.  Did he remove any ork heads?

[Prot]

OH heck yea. What a back and forth game though where every turn felt very win/loss.

 

I'll hoefully go into details shortly on the forum.

 

Thanks guys for the compliment!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Inquisitor Cotez always makes a point to tell the khan his eagle has two heads lolz .

[Prot]

Well, well, well..... I bet you guys never thought you'd see this thread get updated?

Well behold the Outriders:

That's a big picture... it shows off lots of flaws, but White Scars really don't care for such minor concerns.

The truth is I had primed these guys White before I found out I was getting my UM's back and before the sale of my painted WS.

Is it insane to actively play/paint two marine armies? Don't answer that. :)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good job on the Outriders.