Index Astartes: Sanguine Gargoyles (v2.0)

[Fenrykus]

The Lexicanum is a good source for detailed information on each segmentum.It's very research friendly and the folks over there do a decent job of keeping things up to date.

I keep the Lexicanum bookmarked, but I could have sworn I'd seen a post somewhere (and I'm almost positive it was on here somewhere) that gave a general overview of the enemies of the Imperium based on each Segmentum. I've checked the Octaguide and the other DIY guide, but either i keep overlooking it, or it was somewhere else.

[Brother Lunkhead]

As I recall there is talk of putting together a Liber timeline/history together, but I don't think we have anything actively posted on such a scale or centralized under one topic at this time..... maybe the makings in the murky past of the B&C, but not now.

[Fenrykus]

As I recall there is talk of putting together a Liber timeline/history together, but I don't think we have anything actively posted on such a scale or centralized under one topic at this time..... maybe the makings in the murky past of the B&C, but not now.

See, now I really think this quarantine has started playing tricks with my mind. I've scoured the B&C and the greater web for what I thought I had seen, and I've come up with nothing. Ah well. The Gargoyles are a fleet-based chapter, so it stands to reason they'd encounter every enemy the Imperium has at one point or another I suppose.

 

 

Also, I had a different idea for the homeworld and I wanted to get some feedback.

- Is roughly a millenium too long to not have found/chosen a homeworld? I had planned for the Chapter to lose its homeworld during the 5th Black Crusade, but instead I was thinking of them having not chosen one yet, and after they're decimated they choose not claim a specific world as their home. Instead, they use <<generic system name>>> as their base of operations (maybe they reclaim an orbital defense station or docking platform from some heretics or something). Maybe they could have chosen not to rely on anything but their ships as their base in the beginning, and then they got picked apart because they had no centralized "meeting spot" and were thusly spread too wide to answer the call in time.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Fenrykus

[Bjorn Firewalker]

It makes sense for the Chapter to build keeps on multiple planets, to recruit and to train these recruits in diverse environments, serve as supply depots and provide other logistical support for a crusading Chapter, and serve as listening posts so the Chapter can make sure no separatists, Chaos and/or Genestealer cults are trying to swipe out the Emperor's worlds from under the Gargoyles' noses; see how the Black Templars operate, for comparison. As the planets hosting these Chapter keeps may not be under the Chapter's direct rule- the Gargoyle officers may think, "We have better things to do than to serve as babysitters,"- it likely has deals with each planet's planetary governor, offering protection and other "favors" in exchange for the right to recruit and for logistical support.

 

Recruiting from multiple planets in multiple star systems will also help prevent the Chapter from going extinct if Something Bad happens to one or more of these planets.

[gripschi]

Your Homeworld Draft Sound good. Maybe they reclaim a Lost Station. Reinforced and Forty it. As Source for further Crusades. Locate it we're you Like it.

 

An Addition to recruitment: Why Not Pick Kids from there Ships? You Seem to favor Fleet Based. The Gargolys Care a bit more about there Crews maybe?.

 

My Chapter did this in addtion to a Homeworld. To prevent Excention, it Provide a steady Pool for Aspirants.

 

And with Scatterd, its plausible, many Chapters spread there Forces. With the Citirx Maledictium, many got lost.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Your Homeworld Draft Sound good. Maybe they reclaim a Lost Station. Reinforced and Forty it. As Source for further Crusades. Locate it we're you Like it.

 

An Addition to recruitment: Why Not Pick Kids from there Ships? You Seem to favor Fleet Based. The Gargolys Care a bit more about there Crews maybe?

You intend to have large numbers of women aboard warships; "recreation centers" where these women may breed with worthy men; nurseries, daycare/schools so their children may be taken care of and educated while the parents work; plus food, clothing, and shelter for children who cannot meaningfully contribute to the Chapter's war efforts for a decade or more; plus room for the necessary living quarters, specialized facilities, and storage spaces, which cannot be used for weapons and ammo, armor, fuel and other supplies a warship needs to keep running?

 

Your idea is worth considering, i.e., NOT a stupid one; but it brings with it great challenges, which Fenrykus MUST keep in mind if he decides to implement them.

[Fenrykus]

It makes sense for the Chapter to build keeps on multiple planets, to recruit and to train these recruits in diverse environments, serve as supply depots and provide other logistical support for a crusading Chapter, and serve as listening posts so the Chapter can make sure no separatists, Chaos and/or Genestealer cults are trying to swipe out the Emperor's worlds from under the Gargoyles' noses; see how the Black Templars operate, for comparison. As the planets hosting these Chapter keeps may not be under the Chapter's direct rule- the Gargoyle officers may think, "We have better things to do than to serve as babysitters,"- it likely has deals with each planet's planetary governor, offering protection and other "favors" in exchange for the right to recruit and for logistical support.

 

Recruiting from multiple planets in multiple star systems will also help prevent the Chapter from going extinct if Something Bad happens to one or more of these planets.

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't really know how the Black Templars recruited. That gives me something to think on.

 

Regarding the Gargoyles' involvement in the worlds they protect, I'm probably going to stick with "ruling from afar," almost to the point of having no contact outside of "kidnapping" aspirants. There may be some agreement or treatise with individual worlds or settlements (generally those who are less tribal and more 'civilized'), but that'd be the exception, not the rule.

 

Your Homeworld Draft Sound good. Maybe they reclaim a Lost Station. Reinforced and Forty it. As Source for further Crusades. Locate it we're you Like it.

 

An Addition to recruitment: Why Not Pick Kids from there Ships? You Seem to favor Fleet Based. The Gargolys Care a bit more about there Crews maybe?.

 

My Chapter did this in addtion to a Homeworld. To prevent Excention, it Provide a steady Pool for Aspirants.

It is easier to find the desired hardiness and warrior mentality in a population already fighting to survive, than to find it among "soft" personnel aboard a starship. Excepting the ratings (which are already too important to try to draw from, since they essentially work everything on a ship), the crew has a relatively cushy lifestyle. I'm not saying it can't and hasn't been done, but I don't think it would fit with what I envision for the Gargoyles. But the idea has given me more food for thought (maybe recruiting from within the fleet for the attached Guard regiment, to supplement planetary recruiting).

[Fenrykus]

 

Your Homeworld Draft Sound good. Maybe they reclaim a Lost Station. Reinforced and Forty it. As Source for further Crusades. Locate it we're you Like it.

 

An Addition to recruitment: Why Not Pick Kids from there Ships? You Seem to favor Fleet Based. The Gargolys Care a bit more about there Crews maybe?

You intend to have large numbers of women aboard warships; "recreation centers" where these women may breed with worthy men; nurseries, daycare/schools so their children may be taken care of and educated while the parents work; plus food, clothing, and shelter for children who cannot meaningfully contribute to the Chapter's war efforts for a decade or more; plus room for the necessary living quarters, specialized facilities, and storage spaces, which cannot be used for weapons and ammo, armor, fuel and other supplies a warship needs to keep running?

 

Your idea is worth considering, i.e., NOT a stupid one; but it brings with it great challenges, which Fenrykus MUST keep in mind if he decides to implement them.

 

Most fleets do have at least a small accompaniment of familial units along with them. And regarding my fleet, there is precedence for having non-combatant, non/minimal-contributing personnel aboard (Remembrancers and whole families in the Great Crusade fleets is the biggest one).

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Regarding the Gargoyles' involvement in the worlds they protect, I'm probably going to stick with "ruling from afar," almost to the point of having no contact outside of "kidnapping" aspirants. There may be some agreement or treatise with individual worlds or settlements (generally those who are less tribal and more 'civilized'), but that'd be the exception, not the rule.

 

Kidnapping carries its own risks, i.e., the fact no government would tolerate someone seizing a subject this government could've put to work on a farm or a factory, making things the government needs to stay in power (like a PDF serviceman's lasgun, and the rations he eats), while paying tithes so the government can pay for what it needs to stay in power (like the servicemen's salaries, something that MUST be paid if you don't want the PDF to rebel and overthrow the planetary government)- to say nothing of the consequences of kidnapping the wrong person, e.g., the planetary governor's son and heir, which would make the governor rebel against the Imperium, bringing great shame to the Chapter for allowing such a mess to blow up right under the Gargoyles' noses.

 

The Chapter needs a deal with the governments of planets it recruits from, delineating what kind of people it is allowed to kidnap, at what times, and from which areas; otherwise, it would literally shoot itself in the foot, as the planets secede from the Imperium in outrage, forcing the Chapter to suppress the separatists, instead of fighting Chaos and xeno enemies.

[Fenrykus]

 

Kidnapping carries its own risks, i.e., the fact no government would tolerate someone seizing a subject this government could've put to work on a farm or a factory, making things the government needs to stay in power (like a PDF serviceman's lasgun, and the rations he eats), while paying tithes so the government can pay for what it needs to stay in power (like the servicemen's salaries, something that MUST be paid if you don't want the PDF to rebel and overthrow the planetary government)- to say nothing of the consequences of kidnapping the wrong person, e.g., the planetary governor's son and heir, which would make the governor rebel against the Imperium, bringing great shame to the Chapter for allowing such a mess to blow up right under the Gargoyles' noses.

 

The Chapter needs a deal with the governments of planets it recruits from, delineating what kind of people it is allowed to kidnap, at what times, and from which areas; otherwise, it would literally shoot itself in the foot, as the planets secede from the Imperium in outrage, forcing the Chapter to suppress the separatists, instead of fighting Chaos and xeno enemies.

 

That's why kidnapping was in quotations; it's not kidnapping in the sense that you and I know today. But it's also hard to lay blame if you don't see the kidnappers in the act, but myths and superstitions might spring up in more primitive cultures. So I'm not too worried how any planetary government would react to what might amount to a (maybe somewhat large) handful of their populace going missing once every decade or so. This is especially the case since most of the worlds the Gargoyles would be recruiting from would be on the more primitive side of things (feral and death worlds, mostly, maybe some feudal worlds). On planets where there is a definite planetary government, then of course the Chapter would have agreements on restrictions on recruiting. But the planets with no singular government, and whose settlements are instead ruled by local chieftains, those worlds are where the "kidnapping" would come into play.

 

Rest assured though, this is all stuff I've been considering in depth when it comes to the Gargoyles' recruiting worlds and practices, even before deciding if I wanted to go with a destroyed homeworld. I'm updating my article now with more detailed notes of what each section will contain, though they're just outlines, nothing really fleshed out just yet.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Fenrykus

[Fenrykus]

More details and notes added, some sections have rough drafts, and I've reordered the article.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Details are coming along very nicely. I like how the Chapter history and background are coming along.

 

I do have questions concerning your Homeworld entries:

 

- A Rose, by any Other Name: homeworld?

- The Eyrie: Chapter monastery? FYI - Chapter monastery of the Doom Eagles is also called The Eyrie (sometimes also called The Eyrie upon the Ghostmountain).

- Voudborne: does this allude to idea that the Chapter on the whole is usually in fleet?

[Fenrykus]

Details are coming along very nicely. I like how the Chapter history and background are coming along.

 

I do have questions concerning your Homeworld entries:

 

- A Rose, by any Other Name: homeworld?

- The Eyrie: Chapter monastery? FYI - Chapter monastery of the Doom Eagles is also called The Eyrie (sometimes also called The Eyrie upon the Ghostmountain).

- Voudborne: does this allude to idea that the Chapter on the whole is usually in fleet?

It's a title placeholder at the moment, a holdover from when I had an earlier iteration of that section started. I may keep it, it may get changed, I dunno.

 

Ah, thank you for bringing that to my attention. No, it's not their fortress monastery (that's their battle barge The Crag). The Eyrie is the name I was going to use (by them) to refer to  the string of systems the Gargoyles had recruiting grounds in (because they're not exactly homeworlds), and are thus fiercely defended by them. If it might cause too much confusion with the Doom Eagles' Eyrie, I can find an alternative name.

 

It does indeed allude to that.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Fenrykus

[Brother Lunkhead]

Thanks for the clarification..... makes sense.

 

I like "Rose by any Other Name".......perhaps named by original colonists, descended from a band of gypsy players who maintained and protected an ancient collection of Shakespeare

[Fenrykus]

With the addition of Primaris Astartes, do chapters still create Firstborn Astartes? Or is it as soon as they have the relevant info and gene-samples, they convert to only cranking out Primaris Astartes?

 

Also on the topic of Primaris Marines, what would the acceptable upper limit be of Primaris given to an understrength Chapter after Guilliman begins reinforcing chapters?

[gripschi]

I would Image evrything from 10 to 200 Brothers.

 

I remember that the Guys in the Homebrew Fandom, wrote something in this Size several times.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Do Chapters still create First Born Marines? The answer to this is going to be based on a number of factors.

 

Practically, what can the Chapter support? If you have the materials (armor, weapons, transport, etc.) to support 1/4 Primaris, and 3/4 FB you might create new Marines accordingly. Combat doctrine will also figure in this equation as well.

 

Some chapters of a more bellicose nature might value the new physical prowess of the Primaris above all else. They will build their Marines accordingly.

 

Some chapters might go all in and not only build all new Primaris, but subject the entire chapter to the Calgarian Rites.

 

Guy Haley, in his Primaris novels, 'Dark Imperium' and 'Devastation of Baal' paint a decent picture on how the Unnumbered Sons are parceled out the bolster established chapters as well as create new ones. With the exception of a few First Founding chapters receiving 500 Primaris, the upper limit seems to be approximately 100 Primaris.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Brother Lunkhead

[Brother Cambrius]

Brother Lunkhead nails it in terms of the logic of resources when it comes to First-Born being created. If you have the materials for a certain amount of first-born that keeps you active and able to prosecute your vows of dealing with the threats of the Imperium in whichever sector you patrol or protect, you build accordingly.

 

In terms of reinforcement from Guilliman and the Unnumbered Sons/Greyshields, it can depends on the losses of the Chapter and how vital their role is in protecting the Imperium, such as near a rampant Ork Empire or on the edge of the Cicatrix Maledictum.

 

Some chapters have gone the whole hog of becoming full Primaris, mostly through attrition akin to the Scythes of the Emperor becoming a full Primaris chapter after the Tyranids invaded their homeworld of Sotha and killed/ate the surviving original Astartes (not that there were many left after Leviathan...).

 

All in all we got a really brilliant solid article here that's grown nicely, especially with the rebirth touch and making a unique Cursed Founding Chapter, which is never an easy feat and the extra bits on the current members and wargear etc is an extra touch I like as it's just about enough to not draw away from the rest of the article that's already in place.

 

Cambrius

[Gamiel]

Suggest working on the culture part a bit more since often that's what makes a Chapter stand out:

+ How do their "Revere the Primarch" take form?

+ What would other Space Marines visiting them notice?

+ Do they follow the Angelic Graces and/or the Warrior’s Virtues? Have they changed some of them or just focused on one aspect of them? 

+ How do their naming traditon look like?

 

Some thoughts based on their name:

+ suggest making stone working part of their culture, both as sculpturing and as masonry

+ maybe some/many of them have their helmets crafted into the shapes/masks of animals, demons and/or learing human(?) faces

 

 

Regardin recruitment could they have a combination of ways: recruiting from their serfs, taking all the kids (and maybe able bodied grown ups) they can get their hands on in any conflict zone they have pacified, and having some recruitment planets (maybe the orphanages on those planets just know to hand over all the kids when given a signal and the Gargyles sort them through for aspirant material afterward, the rest becoming serfs).

 

 

Your Homeworld Draft Sound good. Maybe they reclaim a Lost Station. Reinforced and Forty it. As Source for further Crusades. Locate it we're you Like it.

An Addition to recruitment: Why Not Pick Kids from there Ships? You Seem to favor Fleet Based. The Gargolys Care a bit more about there Crews maybe?

You intend to have large numbers of women aboard warships; "recreation centers" where these women may breed with worthy men; nurseries, daycare/schools so their children may be taken care of and educated while the parents work; plus food, clothing, and shelter for children who cannot meaningfully contribute to the Chapter's war efforts for a decade or more; plus room for the necessary living quarters, specialized facilities, and storage spaces, which cannot be used for weapons and ammo, armor, fuel and other supplies a warship needs to keep running?

Based on that most Imperial ships are town to city sized and have families that have served on them for generation do most of them already have all that, and room to spare for the  hullghasts and ghilliams to breed

Edited December 14, 2020 by Gamiel

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Some thoughts based on their name:

+ suggest making stone working part of their culture, both as sculpturing and as masonry

This is impractical, due to the need for stone of the necessary quality for sculpting, and tools capable of sculpting it. A general appreciation of art and promotion of artistic skills, should suffice.

+ maybe some/many of them have their helmets crafted into the shapes/masks of animals, demons and/or learing human(?) faces

Good idea.

Regardin recruitment could they have a combination of ways: recruiting from their serfs, taking all the kids (and maybe able bodied grown ups) they can get their hands on in any conflict zone they have pacified, and having some recruitment planets (maybe the orphanages on those planets just know to hand over all the kids when given a signal and the Gargyles sort them through for aspirant material afterward, the rest becoming serfs).

Good ideas.

[Gamiel]

How do they deal with the insomnia from their mutated Catalepsean Node? 

 

 

Gamiel, on 14 Dec 2020 - 11:14 PM, said: 

 

Suggest working on the culture part a bit more since often that's what makes a Chapter stand out:

 

Easy culture points to make are:

+ just how they look out of armoured (having them in togas say another thing from robes, that say another thing from tunic, that say another thing from kilts and nothing more, etc.); 

+ their internal lingo (what do they call their different ranks, squads, specialists, etc.); 

+ how do their faces look when not helmeted (eye of Ra eyeshadow and braided long hair and beard; red headbands and teardrop tattoos; crew cut hair and honours as earrings; warpaint; very scared faces but well-maintained hair in ringlets; etc.);

+ do they wear hats when not helmetd and if so what kind (skullcap, biretta, jaapi; kofia; cavalier hat; baseball cap.)

+ how do they decorate their armour (they don't have any notable decorations; classic BA style with lots of gold, blood drop jewellery, muscle armour, decorative wings; claws n' teeth of xenos, and carved jade charms; skulls and leering faces sculpted into the armour)

 

(exemples given are not suggestions, just examples)

Edited December 25, 2020 by Gamiel

[Gamiel]

Some thoughts based on their name:

Since gargoyles are water-casters do it feel like they should have something with rain/flowing water going on. Maybe they come to their recruitment world during rain-season; or water filled channels crisscross the Chapter's ships, used both for water storage, aquafarming and transport; maybe many of the Chapter's ships’ corridors and chambers are flooded with water, maybe just ankle deep or maybe the whole area is under water; or maybe their ships are equipped with systems similar to the water system in Philip Sibbering's hives on Albion: "As part of the water recycling system, recovered water is distributed via a sprinkler system, so in Britanium it ‘rains’ a lot. (Even in 40K we still have the great British weather! Best take a brolly ;-) ). The sprinkler system is also part of the fire suppression and control system."

Edited December 16, 2020 by Gamiel

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Since gargoyles are water-casters do it feel like they should have something with rain/flowing water going on. Maybe they come to their recruitment world during rain-season; or water filled channels crisscross the Chapter's ships, used both for water storage, aquafarming and transport; maybe many of the Chapter's ships’ corridors and chambers are flooded with water, maybe just ankle deep or maybe the whole area is under water; or maybe their ships are equipped with systems similar to the water system in Philip Sibbering's hives on Albion: "As part of the water recycling system, recovered water is distributed via a sprinkler system, so in Britanium it ‘rains’ a lot. (Even in 40K we still have the great British weather! Best take a brolly ;-) ). The sprinkler system is also part of the fire suppression and control system."

Let's use water more dramatically, instead of mundane rain, flooding, and pools. Say the Chapter uses water jet cutters with snarling gargoyles framing the muzzles, in place of meltaguns- in-game, let's count it as meltaguns that inflict PERMANENT -1 Toughness penalties upon its targets. Let's give Librarians the title "Rainmakers" and the ability to control weather, which, in-game, counts as a psychic power that forces all enemy models to take Dangerous Terrain tests on the gaming table, like Njal Stormcaller. Let's have the ship's sprinklers be part of the onboard security system, i.e., they're not leaking, but intentionally left running, to continuously disinfect the ship's interior- a countermeasure adopted after a Death Guard boarding party attempted to corrupt one of the Chapter's ships.

[gripschi]

I could Image, that they Cover themselves as stautes. Waiting to ambush the enemy.

 

Maybe they add riles on there armours, to allow a better water flow.

[Fenrykus]

Thanks for the continued feedback on my Gargoyles, everyone, especially since I was afk for an extended bit of time! I really like the ideas about incorporating rain/water as well as stonemasonry into their theme.