Book 9 appears to be on U.S. soil

[Mango Polo]

They shoot out of grenade launchers and make your opponent initiative 1 that turn

 

Hey quick question for the dreadwing rite of war what are the stasis grenades, are they just the ammo type or similar to rad grenades.

 

Nah, there's two different things now: Stasis Shells (the grenade/missile upgrade) and Stasis Grenades.

 

The Dreadwing RoW allows you to equip an entire unit with Stasis Grenades, which are what the Lion is using. If you charge or are charged, you reduce the opponent's Initiative to 1 for the turn. No need to boop someone at range with them first.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

Can I ask some lucky book owner for information on Contekar price tag? I'm thinking about converting some regular Terminators with CSM Raptors Chainswords and some stray Heavy Flamers I've accumulated so far. However, I'm slightly worried they may just be too expensive to field for my liking as Ap3, even with rending on termis is a crippling disadvantage for me if they were to be, say, closer to 300pts per 5 men...

[Dhar'Neth]

How much more meltabombs a unit of 5 hussars cost than a 10 man tactical squad (both barebones)?

[Slips]

How much more meltabombs a unit of 5 hussars cost than a 10 man tactical squad (both barebones)?

Same cost.

 

 

Can I ask some lucky book owner for information on Contekar price tag? I'm thinking about converting some regular Terminators with CSM Raptors Chainswords and some stray Heavy Flamers I've accumulated so far. However, I'm slightly worried they may just be too expensive to field for my liking as Ap3, even with rending on termis is a crippling disadvantage for me if they were to be, say, closer to 300pts per 5 men...

46 meltabombs baseline, 7.2 meltabombs per additional. 5-15 squadsize 2ppm for teleportation transponders.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

Thanks Slips, much appreciated. The cost seems just fine, not a bargain, but definitely will give them a try!

[Gederas]

Can I just say how I love the fact that we're using meltabombs as a measurement of cost? :lol:

[SkimaskMohawk]

Contekar aren't great at the traditional terminator role for their cost, but as a compulsory hq choice? Hard to beat.

[Ficinus]

One thing I've seen a lot of people talking about in (I believe) an incorrect manner is the Scion of the Ironwing rule. It says that crew shaken becomes crew stunned, and they're taking that to mean if you suffer crew shaken it becomes crew stunned and are assuming it's a typo. I think it means if you cause a crew shaken against an enemy vehicle it becomes crew stunned. Mainly I think this because only characters can be made scions and the Dark Angels have no character vehicles. That said, it's still a pretty worthless upgrade considering extra armour negates it and if your weapon has AP 1 or 2 getting a crew shaken isn't that likely.

[Ficinus]

I wasn't going to do this until later I got my hands on the book, but I'm going to rant about Ironwing and how disappointed I am in the changes to it.  Basically, the only thing it retained from its old version was the limitation that half of your units have to be tanks and no fortifications/allies

This is what Ironwing lost:

• BS5 tank squads
• Tank Hunter!!! and Fear on Dreadnoughts
• +1 to wound at short range with rapid fire, pistol, and salvo weapons of low strength
• Ignore the first dangerous terrain test and +1" flat out

This is what it gained without extra point cost

• Predators as Troops

This is what it gained for the cost of 5 meltabombs per character whose unit you want to benefit

• 6+ (or +1 to existing) invuln for transports the character is in
• Access to Land Raiders as transports for non-terminator units
• Reroll failed armour saves if your transport blows up

Now, let's look at those new benefits.  One of them is part of the Armoured Breakthrough's rite of war (Predator troops) and another is part of the Armoured Spearhead rite of War (Land Raider transports) except the latter is free in Armoured Spearhead and here requires a 5 Meltabomb cost upgrade that is largely worthless.  But wait, you may say, that upgrade gives you other buffs.  Well, yes, it lets you count Crew Shaken as Crew Stunned, which is the inverse of what Extra Armour does, and Extra Armour costs 1 meltabomb.  It also gives you that 6+ invuln on your tanks, you can't put a price on that!  Actually, I can.  In 7th ed, Sisters of Battle Rhinos cost 1 Meltabomb more than Space Marine Rhinos and the only differences?  A 6+ invuln and Adamantium Will.  So I'd say a 6+ invuln on a transport costs 1 Meltabomb.  So we're looking at 2 Meltabombs worth of buff for the cost of 5 Meltabombs (but one of them only comes out in this rite of war).  There's also the rerolled failed saves if your transport blows up.  I don't have a comparison to price that out, but there's no way you can convince me that's 3 Meltabombs worth.

 

Okay, so let's compare this to Armoured Breakthrough.  What do you lose if you take Armoured Breakthrough as opposed to the new version of Ironwing: well you lose some overpriced buffs.  What do you gain: fast Predators, Rhinos, and Vindicators, for free!  Also an HQ Sicaran!  Also Elite Sicarans!  Also fewer limitations!  Okay, is there anything that makes Ironwing better than Armoured Breakthrough?  Those troop Predators can (maybe) take alternative turret weapons to the Predator cannon.  That's it.

 

Can anyone explain to me why I would run the Steel Fist Rite of War over Armoured Breakthrough aside from fluff?  I guess if I wanted to take an army that was all Predators with Plasma turrets and unleash the fury of a thousand suns?

[ShadowCore67]

The +1 invuln would be really good but for the life of me I can't even think of a transport that has an invuln other than super heavies.

[Ficinus]

Yeah, I can't think of any transports with an invuln off the top of my head.  I thought for a second maybe with the atomatic pavaise from a Deredeo it could work, but that only benefits infantry.  I guess if you take a Caestus or Stormbird as your one flyer and put an Ironwing character in it it gets a 4+ invuln instead of a 5+?  The Caestus is a tank so at least that helps with the 50% tank rule.

 

In general, other than the Stormwing rite of war, the other five rights all take the form of: Alternative Troop choices, Buffs for units you buy Scion of the ____wing, and restrictions.  It means that you have to pay points to access most of the buffs in these rites of war, which feels weird.  Also, the Scion of the Ravenwing buff basically doesn't benefit bikes and jetbikes (they can't run or thrust, so the reroll only benefits them if they're falling back, which isn't something you want, though I guess it goes well with the Hit and Run in the Ravenwing Rite of War, but that costs even more points on top of the points for Ravenwing).

[ShadowCore67]

Yeah, initial impressions is the scion upgrade is a tad bit too expensive. But I guess we'll see once more people have their hands on the rules and get some games in

[Allart01]

I have to agree, the Hexagrammaton in general feels a little weird rules-wise.

 

The Deathwing Row is a worse Pride of the Legion (you can have troop Cenobites in Potl, you can't with the Unbroken Vow).

It has a very severe drawback, but since only 3 out of 6 core missions have objectives, the buffs will only work 50% of the time.

Am I missing something?

Edited September 13, 2020 by The_Bloody

[Erren]

I’m not at all convinced that Dark Angels lost their old Rites. I’ve seen nothing in the book so far that says they do.

 

The Scion of the ___ rules are expensive for what you get, but the Scions of the Hekatonystika are so overpriced they may as well have not printed them. 25 points for maybe one extra attack? I can’t imagine using them unless they were 5 points. Or conferred to an attached unit. Either would be fine.

 

The best idea I’ve come up with far for the new Ironwing RoW Land Raiders is to give them to recon armored scouts. Their Infiltrate rule will confer to a dedicated transport, so you can have sneaky Land Raiders!

[ShadowCore67]

I have to agree, the Hexagrammaton in general feels a little weird rules-wise.

 

The Deathwing Row is a worse Pride of the Legion (you can have troop Cenobites in Potl, you can't with the Unbroken Vow).

It has a very severe drawback, but since only 3 out of 6 core missions have objectives, the buffs will only work 50% of the time.

Am I missing something?

Well the deathwing rite itself spawns an objective in the middle of the board that the rules work off of, but yes depending on the mission, the rite can be almost useless

[Astartes Consul]

Does the Scion of the Dreadwing rule about difficult terrain work on dedicated transports a model / squad is in?

 

Asking because the Dreadwing RoW requires compulsory troop choices to be in transports...

[Ficinus]

Yeah, the Deathwing's bonus objective is really a sort of buff/drawback wrapped in one, which I really like.  But, yeah, all of the Scion of the ____wing rules feel... I guess the Firewing one is great.

 

Also, rather than take Recon Squads with a Proteus, why not take the Firewing rite of war and have infiltrating Seekers with a Proteus?  You can only get three, but, how many were you going to take?  Also the insides are scarier.

[ShadowCore67]

Does the Scion of the Dreadwing rule about difficult terrain work on dedicated transports a model / squad is in?

 

Asking because the Dreadwing RoW requires compulsory troop choices to be in transports...

I don't have my book yet so I don't know the exact wording, but I believe no. Basically means you have to be taking dozer blades on all your tanks lol

[Allart01]

Does the Scion of the Dreadwing rule about difficult terrain work on dedicated transports a model / squad is in?

Asking because the Dreadwing RoW requires compulsory troop choices to be in transports...

I'm afraid it doesnt.

 

Re:Deathwing, their objective is *always* a drawback, since only the opponent can get points for controlling it (or for Simply preventing you from controlling it).

A 6"/3" +1A/FnP bubble offers very little to balance the fact it's forcing you to play very predictably, and can potentially give up to 18 vps to your opponent.

 

If actual objectives markers are in play, then DW gets interesting. But that's 50% of the time...

Edited September 13, 2020 by The_Bloody

[Erren]

The Firewing RoW scares me. If I take that I’m going to be absolutely as positive as I can that I kill those 3 targets. I’m thinking right now of 3 drills with various scary things and then 3 pods with various other scary things. All the scary things exactly where I want them!

[SkimaskMohawk]

I see a lot of people on Facebook claim dark angels got a ton of stuff and are super strong, while night lords sit at low-mid tier after buffs.

 

I'm wondering if they actually took the time to read through the various drawbacks or even just how much scions/other upgrade cost relative to their...low return.

[StrangerOrders]

I see a lot of people on Facebook claim dark angels got a ton of stuff and are super strong, while night lords sit at low-mid tier after buffs.

 

I'm wondering if they actually took the time to read through the various drawbacks or even just how much scions/other upgrade cost relative to their...low return.

I think there is a bit of a tendency to think 'wordcount = Good'.

 

By my token, I see alot of the DA stuff as being very flexible to be sure and you can adapt quite well to an opponent. But those pricepoints are rough (25 points for a usually situational rule on one character is nuts, much less two on one) and some of the drawbacks are really nutty (And having to pay for alot of the advantages on top is brutal).

 

The Excindo in particular, in a take that is apparently already so common that its even on 1d4chan, seems both very expensive and way too finicky to rely on.

 

Frankly, for a Legion that never struck me as being particularly elite on a basic troop-level (as opposed to say, the TSons) the DA seem like they actively struggle putting bodies on the table with their stuff. The modelling Wing note also seems like a monumental pain in the neck unless you go really die-hard on always rolling a particular RoW.

 

I am curious though, did they give any reasoning for their beliefs that NLs are low-tier? They have always seemed exceedingly good to me and their buffs seemed to reinforce that, idk if they are balanced perfectly or not but they seem great.

Edited September 13, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[1ncarnadine]

I see a lot of people on Facebook claim dark angels got a ton of stuff and are super strong, while night lords sit at low-mid tier after buffs.

 

I'm wondering if they actually took the time to read through the various drawbacks or even just how much scions/other upgrade cost relative to their...low return.

Yeah it's definitely the opposite. The more I get my head around the slew of DA rules, the less excited I am. I miss the direction the Book VI rules had, where the wings were extremely restrictive but came with a slew of very strong, characterful buffs.

 

edit: just noticed something odd. The Knight Cenobium Preceptor got dropped to one wound...

Edited September 13, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[Guest Metaliptica]

I really want to like the Scions rules but that price tag is just killing me. That's a shame because I really like the ROW (wich may usually requires you to pay those 5 meltabombs/ squad) and the chapter specific units they gave us (even if most of the RoW can become really punishing).
Also kinda surprised/disapointed that the Lion just plays like some kind of glorified beatstick. I won't talk about the obvious disparity of power between his two main weapons, but the fact that the Lion doesn't offer any strategic/tactical advantage to his army is surprising (like a redeployment bonus, reserve manipulation or a seize bonus...).
But otherwise, I must say I really like the general direction they took for the legion and some of the fluff I've been reading has left a smile on my face.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

I see a lot of people on Facebook claim dark angels got a ton of stuff and are super strong, while night lords sit at low-mid tier after buffs.

 

I'm wondering if they actually took the time to read through the various drawbacks or even just how much scions/other upgrade cost relative to their...low return.

 

I am curious though, did they give any reasoning for their beliefs that NLs are low-tier? They have always seemed exceedingly good to me and their buffs seemed to reinforce that, idk if they are balanced perfectly or not but they seem great.

 

 

Of course not lol.

 

@Metaliptica I too was surprised, this is the guy many considered in the running for warmaster and as a lauded strategic genius. He has less buffs and synergy than anyone but angron, and you can argue about the fearless aura being more useful in the encouraged foostlog play style of WE. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk