Book 9 appears to be on U.S. soil

[Marshal Loss]

I've read a section* of an encounter between the Dark Angels and Sons of Horus at the outbreak of the Heresy that had me rolling my eyes, haaaard. The gaming side looks great so far though.

Yeah you can imagine what I thought of that lol

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's some stuff that's at odds with black library lore. From a deleted post on Facebook that both members of the forum and outer circle have claimed to have seen, there's FW devs pushing their own view of the fluff vis a vis contekar being different to atrementar and them being the creators of the lore.

[Marshal Rohr]

Leave it to those chuckle :cuss to ruin any kind of community engagement. Some genius on C&H went after Anuj because he thought the black book wasn’t the right size and he was comparing it to.... visions of heresy Edited September 12, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[Aztek]

Would anyone be kind enough to tell me the points on Marduk Sedras? Thank you!

[Marshal Rohr]

Did anyone else catch Forge World’s ‘stealth edit’ to give knights cenobim overwatch was Warhammer communities fault and it’s in the book, meaning it was at the printers long before those rules ever went up and Forge World didn’t ‘mess up’ or ‘not know their own game’. Just keep that in mind next time The Outer Circle or brilliant geniuses on Facebook get made :D Edited September 12, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[StrangerOrders]

Did anyone else catch Forge World’s ‘stealth edit’ to give knights cenobim overwatch was Warhammer communities fault and it’s in the book, meaning it was at the printers long before those rules ever went up and Forge World didn’t ‘mess up’ or ‘not know their own game’. Just keep that in mind next time The Outer Circle or brilliant geniuses on Facebook get made

I have a love-hate relationship with the Outer Circle, dont enjoy his ranty videos but I really think he is gold in terms of guides and tactical stuff.

 

 

Leave it to those chuckle to ruin any kind of community engagement. Some genius on C&H went after Anuj because he thought the black book wasn’t the right size and he was comparing it to.... visions of heresy

Anuj is one of the two writers iirc, or the two people working on HH or something of the sort. I admit that that I am out of the loop on FW Staffing. 

 

The size thing is odd since the book's page count was labeled on the order page.

 

Also, you didnt answer my question when I last asked so pardon me for being persistent. What exactly is Crusade and Heresy? And how frequently is FW staff on it?

 

I do think that we have a right as consumers to ask and it is smart of them to answer, but anger isn't really very bright. I'd like to query them about the choices that they made in writing (or at least as much as they are willing to answer or legally can) but I can be sold on it or at the very least understand it if they address it. 

 

I will say that I do not have the highest opinion of their higher ups and social media team though, or at least Warhammer Community. This book has been in production for a while and Valdor isnt that much older, it would be nice of them to make some effort to coordinate the teams better. 

 

Realistically though, I do imagine that alot of the odder things in this book (and 40k in general) have less to do with what the writer wanted to do and more what they were told to do. The timeline thing seems like the sort of thing a macro ladder-climber would come up with and overrule others on. 

[Lucerne]

The Dark Angels and SoH encounter is comedic for all the wrong reasons.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Lucerne

[Lucerne]

 

The last book had more pre-Great Crusade attack on Luna lore too. There might be a retcon or disconnect. You can ask Anuj about it nicely on Crusade and Heresy

Odd wording, being rude is a good way to not get a question answered. I do not know Crusade and Heresy though, is it a forum of some stripe?

 

I'm a fair way into the fluff and its... I am waiting for a moment to really win me over but for the time being it is a bit of a hard pill to swallow in terms of its contents. 

 

Took a bit to look over the rules and they looked ample enough, although I am far from a meta enough guy to really judge them.

 

They seem powerful, bonkers powerful in some cases. But the prices also strike me as steep, especially due to how they kind of make your force a fair bit smaller, which is odd for the Legion which was almost Ultramarines big at the Heresy (200k marines 'officially' is a fair chonker of a Legion).

 

I mean, cutting out the repetitive bit about the envy everyone had for them would help, and Hector's comeuppance seems more a blip than the horrible moment the book tries to paint it as. The Rangda doesnt even seem that horrible so far. 

 

I am also not a big fan of how casually its undercutting the UM, IF, TS and SW's bits without drawbacks. 

 

As I said, I am hoping something really turns it around but this is getting to the level where I feel like the smurfs would be memed to death if they tried to pull this. 

 

At least we know the Angels get what's coming to them eventually. :p

[StrangerOrders]

The Dark Angels and SoH encounter is comedic for all the wrong reasons.

Havent hit that yet, should I brace?

 

I gotta say though, I am happy-ish with how the Pride thing was addressed.

 

Being proud isnt really a valid character flaw when you are basically invincible and have minimal losses. Being  proud to the point where you are actively driving your Legion into the ground and the specialists are going at each other's throats while their Legion Masters try to tell off Primarchs at their own niche is hilarious and perfect though. I am glad I stuck with it because that rapid fall was worth the buildup. 

 

I also like that their attempts at an early Librarius violently exploded in their own faces as well. 

 

Excited to see the rest (if a bit wary of some things).

[Lucerne]

 

The Dark Angels and SoH encounter is comedic for all the wrong reasons.

Havent hit that yet, should I brace?

 

I gotta say though, I am happy-ish with how the Pride thing was addressed.

 

Being proud isnt really a valid character flaw when you are basically invincible and have minimal losses. Being  proud to the point where you are actively driving your Legion into the ground and the specialists are going at each other's throats while their Legion Masters try to tell off Primarchs at their own niche is hilarious and perfect though. I am glad I stuck with it because that rapid fall was worth the buildup. 

 

I also like that their attempts at an early Librarius violently exploded in their own faces as well. 

 

Excited to see the rest (if a bit wary of some things).

 

As a statistical outlier, it's survivable, but it's deeply unfair to the SoH and another case of them being the chew toys to make someone else look good.

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

The Dark Angels and SoH encounter is comedic for all the wrong reasons.

Havent hit that yet, should I brace?

 

I gotta say though, I am happy-ish with how the Pride thing was addressed.

 

Being proud isnt really a valid character flaw when you are basically invincible and have minimal losses. Being  proud to the point where you are actively driving your Legion into the ground and the specialists are going at each other's throats while their Legion Masters try to tell off Primarchs at their own niche is hilarious and perfect though. I am glad I stuck with it because that rapid fall was worth the buildup. 

 

I also like that their attempts at an early Librarius violently exploded in their own faces as well. 

 

Excited to see the rest (if a bit wary of some things).

 

As a statistical outlier, it's survivable, but it's deeply unfair to the SoH and another case of them being the chew toys to make someone else look good.

 

Tbf, GW in general tends to violently over-correct things. SoH and UM in particular were always supposed to be two of the strongest Legions with good track records.

 

But the UMs got pushed too hard and SoH were handed off to really disinterested authors who botched their fall.

 

GWs reaction was to basically make literally everyone insetting pick both apart relentlessly and to go out of their way to make them unintelligent.

 

Like, you can hate both or either thats fair and all. But if the premise insetting is that they were great at their jobs with some outlying flaws, making them fools is jarring at best and makes everyone who fell under them in successes seem like a total idiot as well. After all, losing to an idiot makes you an even bigger idiot.

 

The UMs managed to sorta climb out of their meme-hole but the SoH are just in tatters. 

 

Sort of like how the everyone knows about the Wolves of Fenris now, its next to impossible to have an Alpha Legion character who isnt Alpharius somehow and literally every TS character introduced immediately loses their pattern-recognition abilities asap.  

 

That being said, I am still hopeful. I have gotten to some juicy parts at least and the book really seems to be steering into the skid of the Dark Angels screwups. 

 

 

Would anyone be kind enough to tell me the points on Marduk Sedras? Thank you!

220, Corswain is 200.

 

Im no expert at the best of times and the DA have more pieces than a clocktower to factor in, but he seems well worth the price for what you get. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

So one thing I find weird is that malevolence glosses over the scars 4 years fighting horus because "there's no records" .

 

But there's records that were obtained from the dark angels on the particulars of thramas? Or the details of the events of Prince of Crows? How exactly did the author find out some of these details, but got nothing on the scars when they were accompanied by a munitorum general?

[Spagunk]

I think everyone is forgetting how the book was written. DA and by extension BA were still being written when Alan passed. The work was incomplete. Since that time FW broke up having both DA and BA in the same book, Pushed out Dark Mech or whatever plan for AM they had, inserted white scars and did the Hokey Pokey. What you're seeing is a bunch of piecing together someone's legacy into something they thought would make sense. Much like how Tolkien's kids tried to piece together stories from their father, so did FW piece things together after Alan's passing. If there are inconsistencies, lore problems or maybe clever updates, I'm willing to bet it's because of this.

 

This also means that the current staff aren't 100% understanding how the entire lore plays out. You can kind of see it in malevolence where lore wise it's basically retelling what was already known while making some weird choices on how things went down. For White scars, it was the really weird timing of Chondex (right after Ulanor? Horus hadn't turned yet). For BA, I have a biased opinion so I'll leave that alone.

 

Regardless, I think that the current staff is doing the best they can but they are DEFINITELY not nearly as knowledgeable in HH lore. I don't personally appreciate them doubling down on "Well I know better" as that seems like a very weak position to uphold. Where as they would have a much stronger position explaining the process of picking up the pieces and continuing to build from there.

I guess the TL:DR is "They're trying but whoa buddy it pretty rough".

[Elzender]

StrangerOrders, Crusade and Heresy is a Facebook group, where Anuj happens to be. However, if I'm not confusing it with another group, right now talks about book 9 are discouraged to avoud spoiling it to people that have not received the book yet, I think it is in effect for 1-2 weeks, there is a post about it. I do not know if any other FW staffer is in there, nor if you'll be able to get Anuj to go into detail in there, but I guess you can try to ask him through there and see what happens.

[Slips]

Ok, Sitting down and going through the DA  Legion Rules section and jotting down my thoughts on them as a whole.

 

Disclaimer: havent really played 30k in recent times and I will most likely forget something or make mistakes because wooo remembering rules.

 

Ill be going through this section in the order the pages come up in the DA section so first up Weapons of Old Night.

• Any character with access to a power sword can take a Calibanite Warblade (S+1 Ap3) for 2 meltabombs or swap for free if they already have a power sword as part of their basic gear.
  • Honestly, unless its free, I dont see the point in paying the cost for +1S when you could take a Power Fist or Power Axe Instead. Sure you're no longer striking at initiative and losing Mastery of the Blade but those seem like worthwhile sacrifices for AP2 and, in the case of the Fist, S8.
• Plasma Repeater & Burner: If the unit has access to (TL)Plasma Guns, for 4 or 3 meltabombs respectively, they can instead get 12" S6 Ap2 Salvo 2/3, Gets Hot, Twin-linked OR S4 Ap2 Assault D3+1, Ignores Cover, Plasma Flame (re-roll failed hits during overwatch).
  • The Plasma Burner not having Gets Hot and being Assault is nice. S4 is a bit oof but youre getting 2-4 shots per marine. The 12" range is rough but if you slap these onto a unit, youre most likely going to be Deepstriking them via Pod, Terrax or other methods to get close ASAP.  
  • The Repeater. Being salvo is kinda lame. If the unit moves they now only have 6" range and 2 shots per marine. And if they stand still, they get 12" and 3 shots but then....theyre standing still. This means the units maximum threat range is ALWAYS 12" unless you can make use of the small amount of distance you can get from disembarking. Honestly, with how limited the range is, I don't see why you would take these over a Burner. Sure you lose out on 2 points of Strength and IDing T3 models but at least the burners have 18" threat range since you can move and shoot AND charge if necessary.
• Terranic Greatsword: S+2 Ap3, Two-Handed and Instant Death. Yup, its what we've known it to be. Nothing new here.
• Stasis Shells: yup, its stasis shells.

Hexagrammaton:

+5 Meltabombs to be given a Scion rule and can be given to any Dark Angels model with the Character or Independent Character sub-type and special rule respectively. Can't stack the same Scion Rule by piling on multiple characters from the same wing into the same unit but a unit can benefit from the rules of multiple wings if you have a sufficient amount of characters to graft onto it, neat.

 

Do note, some RoWs may force your ICs and/or characters to take one of these rules.

• Stormwing: BS2 Snapshots. Honestly, for the cost of it, not worth it though I can see a few niche applications to make it a bit more worthwhile; such as giving a Heavy Support Squad Sergeant the rule and letting you move with heavy weapons and hit on 5's or when shooting at Flyers. 
• Deathwing: Re-roll first failed to-hit roll of any phase while engaged in a challenge. Pretty neat especially if you have things like Master-Crafted to add on more re-rolls. But, note the wording: any phase. So if you can fire off stuff in, say, the psychic phase while in a challenge, you would get to re-roll 1 to-hit roll. Pretty sure it'll never come up but its something to keep in mind in the event that it comes up. Imho, not worth it on anything lower than Centurion level but, a Squad Sarge with AA and Power Fist who can re-roll 1 to-hit when in a challenge can be clutch but the upgrade is basically 75% of the cost of the model in that case so ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
• Dreadwing: A flat 4" move through Difficult Terrain and re-rolling failed Dangerous Terrain Tests is pretty cool but only if these terrain types come up regularly enough for you in actual play (such as the Eskaton Imperative). Makes you more reliable in youre movements since you can still choose to roll a D6 if you want.
• Ironwing: If played RAW, it literally makes all your vehicles worse. Changing Crew Shaken to Crew Stunned is most likely a typo but hey, hope we get an FAQ otherwise, if we go with the hopefully correct interpretation kinda useful, nothing amazing only take it if youre forced to, tbh.
• Firewing: Model and unit it joins gains Hatred Characters. Generally useful for entire units but if youre debating taking firewing or deathwing for your head honcho Character Killer Praetor or whatever, take Deathwing because that doesnt only last for the first turn of combat.
• Ravenwing: Rerolling Run, Fallback or Thrust distances is neat but uh, they might need to FAQ Thrust to Charge if they want it to not buff a non-existent rule/move. If youre playing ravenwing, hope youre not up against someone who take RAW literally and prevents you from re-rolling charges. This one probably has the widest range of applications especially when playing objective games or more assault-oriented armies. Having a Ravenwing bro in your big melee deathblobs is probably a good idea (unless running the Lion who guarantees minimum 8" charge ranges).

 

Scions of the Hekatonystika: Independent Characters, on top of being able to be made Scions of a Wing can also be made a Scion of the Hekatonystika for another 5 meltabombs. Whether or not its worth the cost of a barebones Centurion to have your HQ be a double-Scion remains to be seen.

• Augurs of Weakness: +1S when making Armor Pen rolls vs AV11. Imho, Pass. If your IC is taking out AV he either has a meltabomb (1/5th the cost of this) or something that (nearly) auto-pens AV11 like, say, a Chainfist (also cheaper than taking this Scion upgrade).
• Icons of Resolve: Basically super-counter attack in that it always triggers when the unit is charged. Useful especially in big meaty melee blobs but otherwise, the pricetag of this conditional +1A seems steep.
• Guardians of Sanctity: Roll 2D6 discarding the lowest when denying. Useful vs Psyker Armies (TS, WB) but otherwise requires specific knowledge that your opponent is bringing Psykers to not just be a wasted upgrade.
• Slayer of Kings: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 when fighting against models with WS5 or higher. Coupled with Deathwing, this lets you re-roll all 1s and a singular 2 when fighting in a challenge (since Deathwing is reroll failed) making your Head Honcho Praetor all the more reliable when it comes to murdering fools.
• Hunter of Beasts: Reroll any 1's To-Wound vs T5 or any failed to-wounds vs T6+ surprisingly useful if Custodes, Mechanicum and Bikes are commonplace in your Meta or if your regular opponent runs WB Gal Vorbak bombs. 
• Reaper of Hosts: +1A when in B2B with more than 1 enemy model. Another generally useful one especially since it can also be triggered when in a challenge since the only qualifier is having 2+ models in Base-to-base. Is it worth the cost when compared to Slayer of Kings, however? unsure.
• Breaker of Witches: re-roll ALL to-hit and to-wound vs anything that is affected by a blessing, is a (brotherhood of) psyker, psi pilot, Daemon or Daemon of the Ruinstorm. If you know youll be up against it, worth it. Otherwise, eh.

Rites of War:

 

Eskaton Imperative: (Scions of the Dreadwing)

In general, pretty good. Armywide access to Rad/Stasis Grenades is nice if a bit expensive. Very liberal access to Plasma Incinerators (18" S4 Ap2 Heavy D3+4, Ignores Cover, Plasma Flame) is nice. Requires Dreadwing Scions in the unit, however.

 

The fact that it slows down the entire enemy army - unless they have armywide move through cover - is good especially since you yourself aren't too negatively affected by it and, if you can make the most of it, give you the upperhand when it comes to maneuvering. Being able to corner your enemy in their deployment zone to a certain extent with the 3 Dangerous Terrain markers is also a very handy thing to have.

 

The negative LD modifier is ok but nothing game breaking.

 

Giving up VP in the way that it does is a bit rough, however. It does mean youll have to have good target priority if you dont want to suddenly lose a game you were marginally ahead in because of this rule.

 

Transport Requirements are pretty strict but workable. Interemptors HAVING to be 10man sized squads to that a Proteus as a DT is lame, however, since it precludes you from taking an Exploratory Augury Array. Baseline Destroyers having access to the Terrax Drill as a DT does mean you have access to pseudo drop pod assault.

 

Further, for Destroyers, their access to a Suspensor Web'd Missile Launcher does mean that they have access to taking Plasma Incinerators instead, if youre so inclined.

 

All in all, pretty positive about this RoW, it has pretty open-ended list building and the effects are generally useful while the restrictions dont work against the RoW itself.

 

Steel Fist: (Scions of the Ironwing)

Yep, its basically armored breakthrough but you can take Predators as troops. Not much to say on this, honestly.

 

Storm of War: (Scions of the Stormwing)

RoW for spamming massed bodies, basically and lets you issue Orders:

1. Start of the Movement Phase. Gain 6+ FNP but cannot move that turn. Cannot be used if in CC at the start of the turn.
2. Start of the Shooting Phase. Lets tactical squads move and Fury of the Legion but only if they didnt run or embark/disembark from a transport that turn.
3. Start of the Assault Phase, before Charge is declared and not engaged in combat at the start of the phase. Grants the unit Furious Charge.
4. Start of the turn and if the unit is in reserve regardless of turn number (so possible on T1). Automatically passes reserves and gains Outflank.

Your giant blobs basically having 2 Sergeants is nice especially since the Centurion you can attach is still fully customizable they just can't be given consul upgrades.

 

You basically have to have more Tactical Squads and/or Assault squads combined than anything else in the army which limits how well you can deal with AV and Flyers but hey.

 

Proper unit spacing will basically be a must vs any armies that include any appreciable amount of templates otherwise youre going to have a bad time. You're basically hoping to overwhelm your enemy and drown them in bodies, really.

 

Unbroken Vow:  (Scions of the Deathwing)

Basically their version of Pride of the Legion.

 

You get buffs for being near objectives such as +1A and/or FNP 6+ (or +1 to an existing FNP)

 

The fact that you have to also place an additional objective as close to the center of the board as possible that you must control at the end of the game otherwise your opponent gets VPs (and more if they control it), is rough. You'll basically want Apothecaries and Primus Medicae wherever possible to make most of the FNP Boost when near objectives.

 

It otherwise has no other restrictions than having Vets and Termies as troops so is pretty flexible in terms of what you can do and take. Just make sure you don't forget that central objective.

 

The Seekers Arrow: (Scions of the Ravenwing)

Bikes, Bikes, Bikes. 

 

For 4 meltabombs your ICs get Hit And Run. Do Note that there is no requirement for them to be on a bike when part of this RoW they just need to have the right Scion rule. 

 

2+ reserves and outflank if the unit has a Ravenwing character in it is a nice bonus but, since you can only take vehicles that have the Fast Skimmer or Flyer type you can't really couple it with a Damocles Command Rhino or Proteus with Exploratory Array. This also means no dreadnoughts.

 

While you might not be White Scars fast, as long as a unit has a RW character they just straight up get a free +2" to one of the following each turn: run/turbo-boost, charge or consolidate move distance. With RW Scions allowing you to baseline re-roll Run, Fall back and Thrust (charge) moves, this makes your zooming, at the very least, pretty reliable.

 

1HS Slot isn't the end of the world due to the amount of other RoWs we have in the game that limit the slot. It does, oddly enough, limit you to 1 unit of Jetbike Sky Slayers.

 

White Scars, in general I feel, still do Bike Armies better though.

 

Serpent's Bane: (Scions of the Firewing)

If you've ever wanted to have an army of sharpshooters, this is the one for you since it lets you take Seeker squads as troops. Its that or Assault Squads for this RoWs compulsory selections, however. But, Firewing Enigmatus Cabals are also troops which frees up your FA slots.

 

Priority Target Kill List is a mixed bag. On the one hand, its only 3 units and you get better at killing them so long as the unit has a Firewing model in it but, on the other hand, if you dont destroy those 3 units (or otherwise remove them from play as casualties) you cannot win the game.

 

The always-on attack bonus while your Firewing ICs are in combat with a Priority Target is nice but nothing to really write home about.

 

Being able to give 3 Troops units (Firewing, Seekers or Assault Squads) infiltrate who also get Rage until the end of the 2nd turn if infil'd 17+" away from a priority target is a nice way to get a bit more board control or speed up wiping out priority targets. Firewing Cabals, for example, have 5 Attacks each on the charge if they get to make use of the Rage rule while a JP'd Firewing Praetor can have up to 7/8 attacks (4 Base +1 charge, +1 Digi weapons, +1 Priority Target, +1 two CCWs if applicable).

 

All in all, with the pretty lax restrictions on the army, you can easily tool your list up to make the Priority Target Kill List a non-issue especially if youre in a gaming group where people using Legion Tactical Vets a lot.

 

Personally speaking, if I was to make a DA List, I'd probably go focus on this RoW to start with.

 

Units:

Knights Cenobium:

We already know whats up with these guys for the most part since they were shown off a while ago but hey.

 

The 1W is kinda lame especially on the Preceptor who has a Praetor-level WS6.

 

They get 1 free option from the Hekatonystika. Imho, go for Slayer of Kings, Hunter of Beasts or Reaper of Hosts unless you know youll be up against specific armies such as Thousand Sons. 

 

Getting free Thunderhammers has me thinking you probably want to have 1-in-3 Terranic Greatswords so that you still have At-Initiative instant death around on demand in the event of Mechanicum bots or Non-EW characters and trying to slip a wound by their 2+ save.

 

 

 

Deathwing Companions:

Super Command Squad.

 

You can give these guys JPs if the Praetor theyre taken for has one or TDA but cannot be given bikes.

 

A downside to these guys, however, is that unlike regular command squads which can act independently, iirc, these guys are permanently attached to their Praetor / Special Character. Also, no fearless banner.

 

Oddly, they also do not have access to an assault transport. They only ever have a Rhino or LR Proteus as an option. This does mean that, when in TDA, they literally cannot embark into a LR Proteus taken as a DT for them due to being permanently attached to the Praetor they are taken for.

 

An upside is, however, that they are 5-10 instead of 3-5

 

The Oathbearer is basically a Centurion which is nice as is the flat cost to give a whole squad meltabombs regardless of size. 3 meltabombs per model for jump packs is a bit steep but at least they have the option.

 

The Cytheron Shields are pretty decent. I would, however, never deploy the shields per say since its, to my brain anyways, cheaper in points to just buy each model (except the sarge) a shield and still have the model be able to fight and shoot (albeit with bolt pistols) than have at least 80* points in minis doing nothing due to deploying their shields

 

* (30 base model cost + 10 shield)x2 = 80 for the minimum requirements to deploy shields for the entire unit vs paying 90 points for 9 shields in a 10 man squad and gaining 4 Power Fist or Terranic Greatsword attacks in exchange.

 

The only time I can see deploying the shields being kinda-maybe-but-probably-not worthwhile is for its Initiative reducing capabilities.

 

Additionally, the shield doesnt preclude the use of Two-Handed weapons OR gaining +1A for having 2 CCWs. I would, however, only give them Terranic Greatswords (free) or Power Fists (1 meltabomb) over keeping the Calibanite Warblade in a ratio similar to the Knights Cenobium above.

 

+++

 

For TDA Companions, theres nothing really worth mentioning beyond the fact that you have to pay 1 meltabomb for a Power Fist when upgrading from their stock Calibanite warblade but can take a thunderhammer for free instead. Yeah, never take power fists on TDA Deathwing companions when you can have the same thing but better for free.

 

+++

 

Auto-Succeeding Look Out Sirs! and denying Precision Shots/Strikes is also a nice added benefit to taking these guys for your HQs.

 

 

 

Firewing Enigmatus Cabal:

To begin with, I generally find this unit OK. The lack of Assault Grenades is really weird, however. But, Beyond that, each model is essentially a Centurion in statline which is nice.

 

Having Needle Pistols for shooting is nice since those are straight upgrades vs Bolt Pistols

 

Scout is nice since it lets you get a free 6" move after, say, infiltrating 17+" away from a Priority Target Kill List unit in an Serpents Bane list. This would then let you move another 6" on T1 and be a potential ~5" away from a target unit on T2 if you so-wished to make it more-than-likely for you to be able to trigger the Rage portion of the same infiltrate rule.

 

The always-on 5+ cover save and Overwatch denial are also very useful rules for such a small, fixed, sized unit.

 

The Grenade Launcher is kinda not worth it since it'll only ever be really useful vs units they probably dont want to be in combat with.

 

Now, their charge blades are neat but the only time I'd bother activating them is when they have their Hatred on or any means to re-roll at least 1s to-hit to negate Gets Hot! as much as possible or on a turn they charge while affected by the Firewing RoWs Rage rule since each model will have 5 Attacks at that point thereby maximizing your chances at getting some Rends off.

Do not point at 2+ save units. 

 

 

Dreadwing Interemptors:

Nothing all too special about them that hasn't been discussed already since seeing their rules when they were previewed a while back.

 

 

Excindio Class Battle-Automata:

Big ol nasty robot. Has Rampage, Hatred (everything!)* 2 DCCW and 2 S+1 Ap2 Unwieldy, Shred and Severing Cut pinchy-claws. If you want to give this boy a Shooting Weapon, you have to give up 1 DCCW AND pinchy claw as well as lose 1 base attack.

 

For shooting it has 3 Options: Phosphex (Heavy 1 multi-use version of the leviathans discharger at 18"), 24" Heavy 5 Poisoned 4+ pinning and ignores cover gun and a Flamer Template version of the Grav-Flux Bombard.

 

You can also trade both its combi-bolters for 2x Grav Guns, Irad Cleansers (fleshbane flamers) or Plasma Repeaters.

 

It also gets Fearless, Adamantium Will,. Fire Protocols, Machine Creature and Cybernetic Reslience rules from Mechanicum bots.

 

All in all, hes a meaty, if expensive, boy and you can only ever take 1 per Heavy Support Slot. With no real delivery method beyong walking him up the board and the longest range on his weapons being 24" it does make including him into an army list a bit difficult since he'll just be lumbering along at 6" per turn.

 

That said, depending on the models base size, if you can take him in Zone Mortalis Games he might be worth it at that point since you can throw out a maximum of 4 Flamer Templates 2 of them being essentially grav flux bombards and the other 2 being fleshbane; among other things.

 

If I'd change anything its just giving them the option to take a Dreadnought Drop Pod. 

 

*yes the exclamation mark is in print too

 

 

Corswain:

He's basically Sigismund but slightly different. If youve faced/used Sigismund before, much of the same things apply to Corswain from what I can see on first reading. But hes also cheaper.

 

Marduk Sedras:

Basically the perfect HQ for Dreadwing Lists. Nothing really new to see from what we've seen in his preview except being able to grant Preferred Enemy (Chosen faction) to units within 6" of him.

 

The Lion: 

Nothing new to add that other people with the book havent already mentioned except that his Pistol is Salvo 2/4 meaning he cant Shoot and Charge FeelsDornMan.Jpg

Edited September 12, 2020 by Slips

[Mango Polo]

Stasis Shells are not 'just' Stasis Shells. They're quite a bit more of a game changer now.

 

Previously they were -1 Initiative and WS.

Now they drop Initiative to 1 and lost the -WS.

 

This makes Thunder Hammers, Power Fists, and other Unwieldy stuff considerably deadlier.

This also badly messes up Reaction Fire in Zone Mortalis.

[Slips]

Stasis Shells are not 'just' Stasis Shells. They're quite a bit more of a game changer now.

 

Previously they were -1 Initiative and WS.

Now they drop Initiative to 1 and lost the -WS.

 

This makes Thunder Hammers, Power Fists, and other Unwieldy stuff considerably deadlier.

This also badly messes up Reaction Fire in Zone Mortalis.

Fair enough, I glossed over that bit.

 

Dropping to I1 is generally useful; makes sweeping easier and guarantees you going first or at the same time if unwieldy. The loss of the negative WS modifier is pretty much inconsequential.

 

Definitely worth taking on units that aren't paying Firewing Cabal prices for a GL w/ Stasis.

[Hrolf the Cunning]

Is anyone able to provide a summary of any new information on the Rangdan xenocides?

[Dagoth Ur]

Just out of curiosity - is it mentioned anywhere that the rites of war (the Iron Wing And Raven Wing Protocols) published in earlier books are obsolete now? Or can they still be used? Because I like the original Ironwing Protocol a LOT more than this one.

[rendingon1+]

[*]Stormwing: BS2 Snapshots. Honestly, for the cost of it, not worth it though I can see a few niche applications to make it a bit more worthwhile; such as giving a Heavy Support Squad Sergeant the rule and letting you move with heavy weapons and hit on 5's or when shooting at Flyers.

 

The Lion:

 

 

Nothing new to add that other people with the book havent already mentioned except that his Pistol is Salvo 2/4 meaning he cant Shoot and Charge FeelsDornMan.Jpg

Stormwing Scions can be a base for having hilarious, "mobile" HSS:

>lascannons/missles/multi melta

>Stormwing Scion - 5+ snaps

>skyseekers - 4+ snaps

>(not neccessary but let's push it even further:) MoS - 3+ snaps

There you go, your heavy weapon squad has relentless. Don't know how it works with overwatch attacks but if it does than it's even funnier.

 

Lion has also passive charge-or-get-charged stasis grenades. It's super huge.

Edited September 12, 2020 by rendingon1+

[Marshal Rohr]

Is anyone able to provide a summary of any new information on the Rangdan xenocides?

It just goes into more detail about when the three wars were and who was involved without giving much away about the Rangda themselves. They are described as Vulpine. Russ and Jonson were the two Primarchs that wiped them out. For a long time the Emperor places an edict of exclusion on expeditionary going beyond two planets at the edge of the galactic north.

 

Edit: the definitely aren’t Tyranids or necrons. They are their own thing.

 

 

Edit 2: maybe I’m rusty on the rules but I don’t understand why all the rites of war say that units can’t be joined by independent characters not drawn from that detachment since all of the rites prohibit allies. Is that for big games? Dark Angels don’t have any Best Friend allies so no one could join them anyway. I’m wondering if this is future proofing for an update Force Organization chart in an updated AoD ruleset

Edited September 12, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[LongWarVet]

Isn't the Ironwing RoW slightly different to Armoured Breakthrough due to the fact you can upgrade the Predators that are compulsory troops and it looks like you can't use additional troop slots for more predators?

Edited September 12, 2020 by LongWarVet

[Marshal Rohr]

That’s how I read it, you can max out 6 predators as troops

[Sandlemad]

The Rangdan stuff is interesting but mercifully avoids giving away too much, which was my fear. Tbh apart from the relatively low-detail account of the first Rangdan war, it spends about as much time talking about the coverup and how this could/should/wasn't framed in imperial historiography. Feels like a summary of a summary really and they might have missed a trick by not e.g. tying in some of the other snippets, like the ultimate use of whatever was in the Martian labyrinth. I dunno, it's a fine line to walk. There seem to be a bunch of folks online that are angry about it not explaining everything about the Rangdan and setting them up for a new codex or something, which is obviously completely the wrong way to think about it, but it comes off as another piece about the Rangdan rather than a summing up or larger statement.

 

I'm liking the depth that's gone into the DA's organisation. Not just the six wings but their precursor hosts and the dozens of different orders, it's exactly as byzantine as it should be. The faintly desperate note about how you should really represent this on the models, please, just do it, think of the other player, is welcome as well. Kind of similar to what we got with the Ruinstorm list. In practice the rules impact of these don't seem to be huge but it's nice to see.

 

I did raise an eyebrow at the Cenobium vs Justaerin bit. It's certainly justifiable on a technical level: legion veterans holding a defensive position against superior numbers of overreaching enemies and ultimately getting wiped out, yeah, it's plausible as an exceptional event worthy of dwelling on in a DA-centric narrative. Does fit into the larger pattern SoH getting used for this sort of thing though.

 

The overall theme that seems to be put forward for the Thramas crusade, that the DA's approach was not less devastating to the region than that of the NL even if they were not doing so out of sadism, is well done. These dark-armoured killers will burn your world down for jollies while these dark-armoured killers will burn your world down to deny it to the enemy.

 

Also dang but the Legio Victorum background is cool. A triple legion, together nearly as large as the likes of Legio Mortis. Victorum I (the Foe Slayers), Victorum II (the Foe Hammers), Victorum III (the Foe Breakers), each with their own contingent characters: prestigious but gone-to-seed, Horus-loyal embittered veterans, underresourced and half-forgotten innovators. That's a cool take and a cool way to play with a heresy-long narrative while still leaving a lot of room for player customisation. It's a little disappointing that they only got two pages of background compared to what we saw in e.g. Tempest but it's quality stuff. If the Adeptus Titanicus books came with even just this much non-rules text, I'd be overjoyed. Cool colour scheme too.

 

EDIT: fixed legio names

Edited September 12, 2020 by Sandlemad

[Beren]

So both 1 and 3 are the Foe Slayers?