BIG Preview Speculation

[Toxichobbit]

I’m unsure what to expect. On one hand I agree with Ishagu, the way it’s written makes it feel like they’re going for a more substantial change than just cleaning up and condensing. But on the other hand, if everything is still valid how different can it really be?

 

Intrigued to find out more

They could do substantial changes without invalidating the Codices. They did it for mutliple editions. Note that in their terms, invalidated doesn't mean that the Codex still stays good, or even fully functional. 6-7th didn't invalidate 6th edition Codices in GW's eyes, but it certainly messed some up (Codex Tyranids had some special rules become almost irrelevant and a warlord trait outright stop working).

 

I hope they wield the change bat with a bit more precision and care this time, but I never fully trust GW to not mess up .

Edited May 23, 2020 by Toxichobbit

[MARK0SIAN]

The bit I’m most nervous about is the points changes. Remember the start of 8th how massively inaccurate a lot of the points costs were for things? Lots of things too cheap and even more stuff just way too expensive.

 

I kind of feel like we’ve got to a good point with the points values, I’d hate to see that go back. Let’s just hope they’ve learnt from the constant chapter approved adjustments :)

[TootiusNootius]

The bit I’m most nervous about is the points changes. Remember the start of 8th how massively inaccurate a lot of the points costs were for things? Lots of things too cheap and even more stuff just way too expensive.

 

I kind of feel like we’ve got to a good point with the points values, I’d hate to see that go back. Let’s just hope they’ve learnt from the constant chapter approved adjustments

They've had 3 years of feedback to base these changes on - I assume it's going to be fairly light as they've been doing so many points adjustments as they go along and if the rules are not hugely changed I doubt they'll mess it up that bad. So much changed between 7th and 8th they had to try and predict what would break the game and what wouldn't which didn't work in some cases. 

[Toxichobbit]

If the edition is an evolution of 8th (which seems likely), then I'd expect the points changes to be an evolution of CA2019 too. I wouldn't worry too much about them, at least not until we see them and have reason to be worried.

[Ishagu]

Lol I have literally, and I mean yesterday to be exact, finished my new 2k AdMech army.

 

I remember how I finished 8k points of MkIV Astartes (rebuilt my entire Ultras collection in Heresy era armour) for GW to reveal Primaris the month after.

 

Gotta roll with the punches lol

[TootiusNootius]

Lol I have literally, and I mean yesterday to be exact, finished my new 2k AdMech army.

 

I remember how I finished 8k points of MkIV Astartes (rebuilt my entire Ultras collection in Heresy era armour) for GW to reveal Primaris the month after.

 

Gotta roll with the punches lol

That's how they get you chief, and with Admech expect to suddenly have 100 free points somehow.

Edited May 23, 2020 by TootiusNootius

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

The bit I’m most nervous about is the points changes. Remember the start of 8th how massively inaccurate a lot of the points costs were for things? Lots of things too cheap and even more stuff just way too expensive.

 

I kind of feel like we’ve got to a good point with the points values, I’d hate to see that go back. Let’s just hope they’ve learnt from the constant chapter approved adjustments

They've had 3 years of feedback to base these changes on - I assume it's going to be fairly light as they've been doing so many points adjustments as they go along and if the rules are not hugely changed I doubt they'll mess it up that bad. So much changed between 7th and 8th they had to try and predict what would break the game and what wouldn't which didn't work in some cases.

A new munitorum field manual would be handy then. A free one with the box or rulebook would be nice

[Toxichobbit]

 

A new munitorum field manual would be handy then. A free one with the box or rulebook would be nice

 

A PDF seems likely. But I wouldn't complain at a hard copy in the box set. Or even bundled with the new rulebook. That'd be a nice gesture.

[Vanger]

In AoS they changed how summoning works, which required extensive erratas, but in no way or shape invalidated any battletomes.

 

They could tweak rules, phase order, CP generation or when and how you can use stratagems, how we build armies, LoS rules and no codex would be affected. Hell, they could even re-introduce firing arcs for vehicles without invalidating anything!

[TootiusNootius]

 

A new munitorum field manual would be handy then. A free one with the box or rulebook would be nice

 

I might be reading into it wrong, it sounds like it might be included in the new rulebook? It's the best way of compiling it all in one place I can think of along with the PA books and our current Codices. Might make the book too chunky though, but other rulebooks since have had all the points costs in there that such as Kill Team. 

[Toxichobbit]

 

I might be reading into it wrong, it sounds like it might be included in the new rulebook? It's the best way of compiling it all in one place I can think of along with the PA books and our current Codices. Might make the book too chunky though, but other rulebooks since have had all the points costs in there that such as Kill Team. 

 

A new munitorum field manual would be handy then. A free one with the box or rulebook would be nice

 

 

 

Wasn't the reason the Munitorum Field Manual became a thing becase the points changes were too large to go into Chapter Approved? They could do the same thing with the rulebook, just have the points in a smaller booklet in the same celophane. Hell, they could even split the rulebook into multiple books like 7th.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I had a feeling new codexes were coming with a new edition if that's all true. I'm not buying my PA book then (war of the spider), I'll just wait the extra months for a codex. I feel like all of that time and energy in PA was such a huge waste they could have spent it all on the codexes and had them ready to roll out at a faster rate. Good job GW...

[Panzer]

I mean, the way GW is currently handling Codexes&Co, new ones would have come eventually anyway, new edition or not. :sweat:

[TootiusNootius]

 

Wasn't the reason the Munitorum Field Manual became a thing becase the points changes were too large to go into Chapter Approved? They could do the same thing with the rulebook, just have the points in a smaller booklet in the same celophane. Hell, they could even split the rulebook into multiple books like 7th.

 

Entirely possible, I was just trying to think of the way to remove the maximum amount of book bloat in one go. If all I needed was the rulebook, PA Engine War/Pariah and Codex Admech/Necrons, that would be the maximum I could deal with without losing it.

 

Although I suppose either printable PDF pages per army or a little booklet wouldn't break my back. I'd love some book to just compile all we got throughout 8th such as City-fighting or the Vigilus extras in one place rather than having to bring those in addition if I want to play them [i really like city-fighting rules - I want Zone Mortalis in there too from the get go as a wishlist thing - But I want it in the main book instead of having to carry a library on my back].

[Toxichobbit]

When it comes to points values, whether they're included in the rulebook or a seperate booklet is mostly much the same. They're the same page count either way. In fact, a seperate book is better on the chance that they released condensed rulebooks later down the line (like the mini-rules from previous editions, not the 4 page pamphlet thing we get nowadays).

 

Book bloat is largely caused by having to use books like Vigilus or PA that have rules for your faction, but also loads of irrelevant (in terms of playing a game) content like background, photos and rules for other factions. A points booklet doesn't really suffer from that and done right, would be just the points pages that could be included in a rulebook with a front and back cover.

[Dark Shepherd]

8th rulebook was a massive hardback with hundreds of pages of lore, they could EASILY fit points in there if they really wanted

 

I half suspect it would cause problems though being invalidated this December but being on sale for a few more years

 

Supplement or PDF more likely. Hopefully they wont try to sell indexes as datasheets staying the same.

 

Someone just texted me saying the story in the new White Dwarf seemed very much like it implied endless spells for Orks

[Toxichobbit]

3rd ed had rules for every army in the rulebook. They were quickly (in GW terms, not real terms :p) invalidated by the rules in the Codices. It didn't cause many problems, at least where I was gaming. Even for new players. I suspect points would be the same. Plus Codices have points values in them that are out of date and we deal with that.

 

I'd very much like a 40k equivalent of endless spells. The models are fun looking and it adds some nice dynamism to the phase beyond spells/psychic powers being just another set of rules/stats. Something tangible to represent psychic powers manifesting would increase immersion and enhance the asethetic, which I suspect for most of us is why we play.

[Dark Shepherd]

Im thinking for newer players but they could always put in a big glaring disclaimer that theyre updated every CA

 

The AOS endless spell models generally look really good and fun to paint

[Toxichobbit]

The newer players have that issue already with Codices, though to be fair having three potential versions of points (rulebook, codex, CA) would make it even more confusing. It's inevitable, whether it's in the rulebook, Codex or a seperate book, someone still has to explain to new players which version is the latest and has precedence. Same with FAQs etc. Any wargame that does regular updates sadly has the issue and even for veterans, it can be confusing trying to get into a new game because of it.

[TootiusNootius]

This new mystery boxed game in the FAQ... We have Titanicus... We have Aeronautica [Confirmed to be in the same scale IIRC]... Is it Epic's return?

Edited May 23, 2020 by TootiusNootius

[G8Keeper]

This new mystery boxed game in the FAQ... We have Titanicus... We have Aeronautica [Confirmed to be in the same scale IIRC]... Is it Epic's return?

Pretty sure it's referring to a new boxed starter set for 40k.

[Toxichobbit]

This new mystery boxed game in the FAQ... We have Titanicus... We have Aeronautica [Confirmed to be in the same scale IIRC]... Is it Epic's return?

I saw a post on Reddit mentioning BFG leaks, something about leaked models and rules. I thought nothing of it because there were no links or proof. So other than the coincidence that I saw both that and your post this today, I don't have a compelling argument for it, but...

 

BFG...maybe?

 

I should probably hit Google and see if I can find something more substantial.

[TootiusNootius]

 

This new mystery boxed game in the FAQ... We have Titanicus... We have Aeronautica [Confirmed to be in the same scale IIRC]... Is it Epic's return?

Pretty sure it's referring to a new boxed starter set for 40k.

 

 

Might've misread I thought it said boxed game and was being sly about it with "What boxed game?" or something of the sort - While they also flat out state that a replacement for Dark Imperium is coming. I took them as separate things - Can't reopen it now it's gone [404'd], but I can dream.

 

I took this as a redux of "Space Marine" to complete the Epic 40k trio or like Toxic said, may well be BFG as they're both gaining in popularity despite being unsupported.

Edited May 23, 2020 by TootiusNootius

[Marshal Loss]

The context made clear that it was referring to the starter set.

[Marshal Reinhard]

The boxed game paragraph was immediately followed by: 

 

"What happens to Dark Imperium? The Dark Imperium set will be retired pretty soon. If you want it, you don’t have that long to grab one."