Making Competitive as Possible List w/ Core of Berserkers?

[Schurge]

With the lockdown nearing its end in my part of the world I've been looking at playing a more competitive World Eaters list in the interest of participating in some tourneys, while still keeping a core of Berserkers. I've never participated in the competitive side of the hobby but with Faith and Fury I don't know that there has been a better time in a long time for a World Eater player to start. I've been doing some research and theorycrafting and I would like some input.

 

First off, I see a lot of placing Chaos lists running three Arch Lord Discordants (though never in a Khorne / WE list). I tend to run two to three Maulerfiends and ALDs are at least as good at killing vehicles and very efficient at killing most other things as well. They also don't cost much more. So no brainer right? Drop the 'Fiends and buy two more ALDs to fill out a Supreme Command Detachment? In competitive play how reliant are ALD's on Magic? If you were to make a competitive as possible World Eaters list would you run ALDs? Would you run Daemon Engines at all?

 

I've always run Berserkers and so long as I am playing CSM I will make room for them in my lists. I tend to run squads of eight in Rhinos with Powerfists and Chainaxes. In competitive Chaos lists when it comes to melee I see a lot of blobs; Possessed and Plaguebearers in particular. I also see a lot of MSUs of Warp Talons. I don't thing running Berserker bombs would be all that fun (running Possessed bombs doesn't look like fun). I could run MSUs of Berserkers in Rhinos for efficiency but I wonder how much work they can do after eating overwatch, on top of that I imagine it would be very hard for MSUs of Berserkers to hide from shooting by wrapping enemy units even with our new six inch consolidation. How would you run your Berserkers? Should I be concerned at all about being able to hide from shooting by wrapping enemy units?

 

If you were to make a competitive as possible World Eaters list while still having it be a World Eaters list what would you include?

[Ultramarine vet]

Well I'm going to give you a couple tips and see if I can help any, considering I don't have that much useful knowledge on chaos marines. Can exalted champions buff Khorne berserkers with re-rolling failed wounds? If so, that seems strong. Also, with the 6"consolidation rule, do they also pile in 6"? I have learned with close combat units, especially berserkers, they can really benefit from declaring a charge against multiple units. Charge unit A, destroy it, and then pile into another one and fight again. I have had that used against me. You might already know about that neat trick, but I thought I would mention it.

 

As you have mentioned however, daemon engines are a very viable way to go, I think. Arch Lord Discordant along with a warpsmith in a rhino with maybe some other unit inside with him to follow, or simply just move and advance him with no need for a rhino or anything, should be able to heal and keep said daemon engines alive too. Probably a great way to keep attention off your Khorne berserkers too, which seems to be a pick your poison type problem for your opponent.

[Macbeefin]

 

I think having a significant chunk of your army as berserkers is probably one of the ways World Eaters are most competitive. They can simultaneously take down hordes and Knights making them real all rounders. To maximise efficiency they should all have exalted champ support and be in Rhinos.

 

Units like Warp Talons can synergise well by shutting down overwatch, but making the charge from deep strike is an issue, even in a Host Raptorial. In my opinion you should have enough Rhinos on the table to eat overwatch for your berserkers anyway, so I think Warp Talons are best left out of a competitive WE list.

 

I also think Red Butchers Termis with chainfists sound brutal

[Schurge]

I think having a significant chunk of your army as berserkers is probably one of the ways World Eaters are most competitive. They can simultaneously take down hordes and Knights making them real all rounders. To maximise efficiency they should all have exalted champ support and be in Rhinos.

 

Units like Warp Talons can synergise well by shutting down overwatch, but making the charge from deep strike is an issue, even in a Host Raptorial. In my opinion you should have enough Rhinos on the table to eat overwatch for your berserkers anyway, so I think Warp Talons are best left out of a competitive WE list.

 

I also think Red Butchers Termis with chainfists sound brutal but I’ve never actually run them so who knows...

 

I like the idea of running ten Red Butchers with the default loadout and then redeploying them 9 inches into the midfield into some beefy terrain that has some tactical value.

[Papewaio]

For reference, my area tends to play around 1500 and the list I've been running recently seems about as nasty as I can get currently. It's not units of bezerkers (as much as I tried to fit them in) but it does the work.

 

Battalion 1

Daemon Prince w/wings, malefic talons, Talisman of Burning Blood, Warlord (Violent Urgency)

Chaos Lord w/jump pack, combibolter, Gorefather

Exalted Champion w/chainaxe

 

3x5 Bezerkers w/icons and power fist

 

2x Rhinos

 

Battalion 2 (Soulforged Pack)

Lord Discordant w/baleflamer, Master of the Soulforges

Lord Discordant w/baleflamer

 

3x10 Cultists

 

2x Heldrakes w/baleflamers

 

 

It operates in waves - the drakes hit turn 1, the disco lords and sometimes the prince on turn 2, and the bezerkers mop up everything else. Even a unit of 5 can do serious damage, once you put the psychic awakening strats into them. It does hurt my soul that I can't make them 8 strong though.

I feel you do need that immediate pressure to make any CC army work at the moment - and once you start that push, you simply cannot back off or all your stuff dies.

[Macbeefin]

@Papewaio I like the idea of hitting in waves straight from Turn 1. How do you find Heldrakes perform? I've seen some battle reports on YouTube that feature them but they never seem to put in any work. I guess there is lots of value in tying up big shooty units in Turn 1 though.

[Papewaio]

The drakes are purely to hit the turn 1 charge - either they get stuck into a screen, to block the enemy's movement options, or if my opponent has screwed up they can touch something shooty. They don't actually do that much damage, but the threat of baleflamers that close to his characters always seems to provoke a reaction to kill them ASAP. So then the rest of my stuff moving up can usually get through reasonably unscathed.

 

But yeah, drakes damage output is usually abysmal. Just throw them at whatever target they can reach and call the job done, whether anything comes out of it or not.

[Schurge]

Pepewaio's way of using Heldrakes sounds fun.

 

For all of 8th edition I've run one Heldrake in casual / semi-competitive play. People in my area tend to ignore it which has allowed it to do all kinds of shenanigans... I certainly miss it being able to take out entire squads in one shooting phase though.