BA and 9th Ed

[Rhavien]

What do guys think how long we have to wait till we get DC assault intercessors? Right now the strat won't work on them and I don't see GW touching it in the erreta/FAQ. So next codex maybe? Also I hope that the Sergeant weapon options won't become the same dripfeed as with regular intercessors.

[dread05]

For most of 8th, they tried to avoid introducing straight Primaris replacements for Firstborn units. Outriders however appear to be a direct replacement for Marine Bikes so we may start to see more units getting Primaris replacements in 9th.

 

Although I suspect GW will be doing plenty of new stuff before they look at Primaris SG.

 

What they could DO is release Dante with a couple of primaris SG like they did with Calgar. Test the waters with them.

[Quixus]

Let's hope they don't get such a silly look as Shrike.

[Midnightmare]

What do guys think how long we have to wait till we get DC assault intercessors? Right now the strat won't work on them and I don't see GW touching it in the erreta/FAQ. So next codex maybe? Also I hope that the Sergeant weapon options won't become the same dripfeed as with regular intercessors.

Definitely will be coming, just a question of when unfortunately - it could be quite a while or just be a simple FAQ. Fingers crossed.

 

As for Sgt weapons, I will be magnetising first sure!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Let's hope they don't get such a silly look as Shrike.

That model was one of the ins for me to start a RG army. I don't see dante going the sleek phobos route though, more of a modified Mark-X. Although putting him in Gravis and making him the Hulk-Buster is surely a dream come true for me lol.

[Karhedron]

Let's hope they don't get such a silly look as Shrike.

Shrike made me nervous but the Mephiston gave me confidence that they can do Primaris BA well.

[Vermintide]

The general trend Primaris units are taking does make me wonder how jump pack units are gonna fit into the picture. When we do get stuff with jump packs, I have a feeling it's likely to be more of a distinct unit on it's own, not just the old style "you may equip the entire unit with jump packs for +(points). I'm not entirely convinced we will see it added as an option for generic HQs either.

 

Just makes me slightly hesitant in case it's a wasted investment painting up a bunch of assault intercessors or bladeguard if it turns out they're gonna get a jump pack option later on, which would naturally be what we'd want to take. I know the footsloggers would just end up gathering dust on my shelf.

[Panzer]

I like how Shrike looks but I doubt Dante would go a similar route at all.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So looking at base line points increases its looking like your 1700-1750 lists are going to be closest to around 2k.

 

So plan accordingly. PL gives you a bit more wiggle room for Crusade if there are just some must haves you cant squeeze into a traditional 2k list.

[Indefragable]

I’m pessimistic about the future of Space Marines/Primaris.

 

I hope I am wrong and the data sheet for Assualt Intercessors does not change 5 times as they drip feed weapon options for them with each upgrade pack.

 

My feeling is that outside of the UM Honor Guard that came with Calgar (who are literally Bladeguard +1 because of their daddy), we will only have datasheets for things like Wolf Guard, Sanguinary Guard, and the like, in the vein of DC Intercessors.

 

10th edition will be out in 2 years and it will be yet a whole other crop of “must buy” Primaris units that are one note.

 

...but that my negative predictions.

 

*********

 

My positive predictions are that they make things cool and interesting in a lot of ways. Hard for me to be more specific than that since I have not yet seen indications of that from my perspective.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Indefragable

[Hintzy]

After reading through the rules/misisons and watching various 40k playtesters/pundits I'm growing more and more concerned that aggressive charging type units and armies are less viable than they were in 8th.  

 

The terrain rules that were touted as giving melee armies easier places to hide actually don't accomplish that at all.  The fact that a unit has to be outside of the terrain in order to be obscured is going to make it easier to get angles on them, especially with vehicles who can move freely and fire without penalty.  No more hiding in the corner of a ruin on the first floor (ITC rules) and being largely safe.

 

Tri-pointing still exists, but is going to be significantly harder to accomplish, both because of the stratagem and the ability of your opponent to intentionally manipulate the new coherency check to kill their models out of a combat.  And tagged vehicles can fire into combat... -1 to hit isn't a huge penalty, but if you can knock them down a bracket with your initial combat it might be enough.  At least they won't be able to fire most of their big scary weapons into the combat, so there's that.

 

The primary mission points are entirely objective based, and the secondary mission points are mostly objective/board control based.  Killing is much much less important.  There's even one of the main rule book missions that completely turns off abilities/stratagems like scout deploy and forlorn fury, we'll see if stuff like that makes it into the tournament pack.  Probably not, but we'll see.

 

I think if we want to use aggressive jump pack assault units they're going to end up being smaller, deadlier, units that just kill their primary target and then get wiped immediately afterward.  It seems like the game is going to be geared toward getting onto midfield objectives and holding them, rather than racing toward the enemy.  It seems like investing more points in durable counter-charge units, rather than glass-cannon type units might be the way to go.  

 

Another note, failed Litanies can no longer be re-rolled.  I'm no longer certain Chaplains are worth one of our limited HQ slots, even models like Astorath.  

 

I'm kind of leaning toward the idea of a list comprised of Assault Intercessors in Impulsors for objective grabbing and then a central blob of maybe a Leviathan, Aggressors, Eradicators, and the new Bladeguard HQs to hold the middle and protect the objectives.  Maybe a unit of SG or DC to knock out a key threat early, but not much more. 

 

Pure speculation on my part and I do not have the repetitions with 8th or 9th to have a real grasp on whether this might be a reasonable approach.

[Leonaides]

Well, someone needs to be able to go kick the enemy off an objective... but you seem to have just listed a combined arms army, with shooty, mobility, cc potential and durability.

 

Is that a bad thing?

[Wassa]

I don’t know about assault intercessors. What is their role?

 

We have our JP units which are better for getting into combat. We have other units that are better for holding objectives.

[Quixus]

Well, someone needs to be able to go kick the enemy off an objective... but you seem to have just listed a combined arms army, with shooty, mobility, cc potential and durability.

 

Is that a bad thing?

Not per se as all marines should play like that, but BA  have lots of cc and mobility focused units. Already we are hard pressed to get many of them in one army and still have a chance of winning. I just fear that we will be at a disadvantage against more shooting focused marines  like most of those in C:SM.

[Leonaides]

If you want to take more/all the toys, you'll just have to play higher points levels. Not being able to take all the shineys has always been the problem in smaller games.

[Hintzy]

Well, someone needs to be able to go kick the enemy off an objective... but you seem to have just listed a combined arms army, with shooty, mobility, cc potential and durability.

 

Is that a bad thing?

 

No, I don't think it's a bad thing at all.  It can just be a bit controversial at times as a fair few people prefer to focus on the jump pack aspect of Blood Angels.

 

I don’t know about assault intercessors. What is their role?

 

We have our JP units which are better for getting into combat. We have other units that are better for holding objectives.

 

 Assault Intercessors are a troops choice.  In the suggested list I imagine them hanging out either inside their Impulsors, or in terrain if available, on or near the midfield objectives.  The impulsors themselves are very durable for their points, and using their -2" to charge bubble to screen the objectives/Intercessors would hopefully be enough to max the primary in the first few turns and allow the Assault Intercessors to set up counter charges if necessary.

 

If I remember correctly, none of the "action" secondaries can be accomplished if the unit fell back.  Using the empty Impulsors to screen the other army into their own deployment zone and/or tagging  units to force them to fall back just to be annoying could be a viable strategy.

[The Unseen]

I've yet to be convinced that assault intercessors are better for us than auto bolter intercessors.

(I'm assuming assault sergeants will get the same weapon options as normal intercessors, if they dont, auto intercessors are miles better)

 

Turn 1, both units gain nothing from doctrines, are probably going to advance.

Autos get to shoot, hitting on 4s, assault just moves

Turn 2, say against another aggressive army so you get to assault something (giving the assault intercessors an edge for comparison)

Autos get 3 Str4 -1 ap shots, then 3 Str4 Red Thirst melee attacks. Assault gets 1 Str5 -1AP pistol shot, and 4 Str4 -1 AP Red Thirst attacks

Its close, more attacks at a worse AP for the autos but from much longer range.

Turn 3 rolls around though, and suddenly the autos are getting 3 bolter shots and 4 ap-1 attacks, and the assaults are getting 1 -2AP pistol shot, and 5 -2AP attacks

 

But the first point of AP is the most important one, and if you don't get to combat till turn 3, 5 attacks at -2 AP and 2 Pistol shots don't come close to 3 rounds of shooting with the autos plus 4 attacks at -1AP.

[Blindhamster]

keep in mind there are a number of armies that flat out ignore AP-1.

[The Unseen]

keep in mind there are a number of armies that flat out ignore AP-1.

I'm not sure if that's an argument for or against either of them tbh.

That kinda takes the wind out of both their sails, but probably leaves the autos in a better spot thanks to having more attacks overall.

[Hintzy]

I did mention the Assault Intercessors a bunch but I didn't mean to imply that they're the obvious optimal choice. I've been debating that myself. What I meant to be the primary point was the more durable reactive force rather than aggressive jump pack assaults due to my concerns over melee being potentially more dangerous (for us) than before.

[Indefragable]

I still say Incursors are the best* Troops for us**.

 

 

*from an all-round, most-useful in most situations, perspective. Specialized cases and uses will also be optimal in their given use cases.

**based on information currently known, someone as there are no major changes that we know about

[Arkhanist]

I think taking at least a squad of infiltrators with their 12" reinforcements denial + concealed positions + smoke grenades is going to be pretty useful to lock down areas for a little bit against counter deployment/counter chargers, now pretty much anything can come in from board edge reserves.

 

I think assault intercessors (assuming they get the sgt options) could be useful as a cheap counter-assault unit ourselves to come in from a board edge turn 2/3 unharmed and swing control of an onbjective. Hell, if they push something into our zone, coming off our own board edge straight into combat with a thunderhammer could mess up their plans nicely. But for hoofing up the board? Nah. I agree incursors or intercessors are better at mid-table control.

 

I think the new bikers escorting some inceptors as a mobile firebase that also packs a solid punch on the charge seems useful.

[Blindhamster]

 

keep in mind there are a number of armies that flat out ignore AP-1.

I'm not sure if that's an argument for or against either of them tbh.

That kinda takes the wind out of both their sails, but probably leaves the autos in a better spot thanks to having more attacks overall.

When combat doctrine kicks in, assault intercessors will always get their -2 for both shooting and melee. Auto bolt rifles dont get better in assault doctrine and their melee doesnt get better in combat either.

[Charlo]

The reason Assault Intercessors are better is because they have running poses and chainswords :D

[Blindhamster]

And they're just inherently cooler