BA and 9th Ed

[keeblerartillery]

 

 

I’m surprised nobody brought this up yet but a big change for us is the rule that we only get 1 captain per a detachment. I think we are the only ones (ravenguard and white scars might too) that’ll be hurting from that rule considering our fondness (as a faction) for running multiple smash captains.

 

Considering the changes to assault, characters, and detachments I have a feeling most of us weren’t considering running a lot of characters in the first place.

I agree with Blindhamster, it makes more sense this way. You can still field a Smash Captain or his successor, the Smash Chaplain! Just not spamming Captains, which is fine by me from a fluff perspective. Also I like the command structure with one Captain and two Lieutenants, I wonder if there will be any more to this in the future.

 

I do realize that this is a nerf to us, but it's a nerf to all SM armies as well. While we really didn't need any of the points changes or nerfs to the charge phase, I think this is a change that we can adapt to quite easily. And yes, the Slamguinius is a crutch. I've never played with a Smash Captain and while I've lost a fair share of my games in 8th, I've won some as well without him.

I actually haven’t used a smash captain for my last several games/tourneys. I won our shops last tourney of 8th, against last years number one black templars player. He’s good - but you tended to forget about all of our other tools when you used him. I found not having him has drastically increased my tactical acumen

[Quixus]

I like the idea that commanding officers (captains, lieutenants) are limited, but I am not so sure that supporting officers (chaplains, priests/apothecaries, librarians) should be just as limited.

[Panzer]

I’m surprised nobody brought this up yet but a big change for us is the rule that we only get 1 captain per a detachment. I think we are the only ones (ravenguard and white scars might too) that’ll be hurting from that rule considering our fondness (as a faction) for running multiple smash captains.

 

Considering the changes to assault, characters, and detachments I have a feeling most of us weren’t considering running a lot of characters in the first place.

 

Actually plenty competetive lists even started to not take any captain at all since our support characters are much more important and still decent beatsticks. Being able to take only one will affect much less people than you might think. ;) 

[Arkhanist]

Having to make a charge roll sufficient to reach every target (i.e. no charging the screen in case you roll short of the main target) made smash captains significantly less viable anyway.

 

Smash chaplain on a bike buffing outriders or splitting off for a target of opportunity could be pretty viable though.

 

I think it's good for fluff too, it felt really dodgy seeing a detachment of 3 smash captains and a handful of scouts backing up knights or the like.

[ThatOneMarshal]

 

 

I’m surprised nobody brought this up yet but a big change for us is the rule that we only get 1 captain per a detachment. I think we are the only ones (ravenguard and white scars might too) that’ll be hurting from that rule considering our fondness (as a faction) for running multiple smash captains.

 

Considering the changes to assault, characters, and detachments I have a feeling most of us weren’t considering running a lot of characters in the first place.

Actually plenty competetive lists even started to not take any captain at all since our support characters are much more important and still decent beatsticks. Being able to take only one will affect much less people than you might think. ;)

Just shows how long I’ve been out of the game haha!

 

I am still hopeful that jump packs will stay competitive in the new edition; hopefully bikes wouldn’t be supreme like they had been in 6th and 7th.

 

I am curious about our death company. Considering that a lot of people liked taking max sized squad I wonder how much the new coherency and blast rule will be affecting them. Maybe start taking 10 man squads?

[SamaNagol]

Death Company are a nuclear threat anyway. They are there to help you win the game in deployment.

 

A max size unit is still an important tool. They should not really be getting shot before they get to do their work anyway.

[Morticon]

im so excited about this whole thing right now.   9th went from "ooh cool"  to "OMG YAAAAAAAZZZ!!"

[Vermintide]

Looks like stuff like the Smash Chaplain and Slambrarian will be more useful too now, which is cool. I've always liked the idea of the various HQs working together, and they do have great synergy buffing each other etc. It's more fun that way than just taking 3 Captains.

 

Thoughts on us being included in the main Codex now? Will the supplement keep the traditional restrictions in place, or do you think there's even a possibility we might get access to some of the units we've been missing? I'm curious whether it'll also give us the freedom to build our own successor chapters, assuming they kept all that stuff in from the last codex.

[Quixus]

If 8th is any indication, playing a successor chapter (whether canonical or homebrew) will just nerf you. Edited July 27, 2020 by Quixus

[Majkhel]

Good call on the C:SM units, Vermintide! If the C:SM-supplement relation of the 8th edition is anything to go by, units and points will be listed in the Codex while supplement only contain additional chapter-specific units and heroes.

[Xenith]

 

 

 

Flesh Tearers chapter tactic seems at a glance at stills taken from the codex video to stack with doctrines which i hope is correct, althoug due to quality of the video might be incorrect. I'm not bothered whether it is better or worse than the BA's +1 adv/charge rolls in the end with this change, but just the fact that we can actually make use of the trait now inside assault doctrine makes me so much happier than before.

Are you certain that's true? So far, the latest FAQ states that they can't stack their AP with the Assault Doctrine and the overview of the codex leak doesn't seem to change that...

 
Best quality i could find from the video. I read "On an unmodified wound roll of 6, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1. This is cumulative with the bonus from the Assault Doctrine if it is active for your army".

 

While that's awesome, the FT tactic is still weak overall. Compare 2 additional (200% more) hits on a 6 that fists get, with the -1 AP (16% more failed saves) on a 6, which all marines get for free on T3 anyway. FT's should be a flat -1AP in combat. 

 

Still, excited for the changes. 

[BluejayJunior]

It'd be easy enough to have a one-page list of which units from the main Codex are usable for BA. I'm fine with not getting access to all the Codex units. I don't really like centurions and thunderfire cannons and ironclad dreadnoughts are kinda meh. I might use thunderfires if we got them, but am pretty indifferent. 

I've got no problems going into the Codex + Supplement. The supplements have been pretty well done. I don't see us losing anything from this. And it likely means we get access to the psychic tree in that codex, which is cool. Since we only had one tree to choose from while the codex marines got two (not counting the tree for Vanguard Librarians). 

[Jolemai]

 

Third game against Ad Mech booked in for Sunday (1500 points).

Death Guard rather and I finally beat them! Will post more later tonight

Quickie report, 1500 points (old money). Armies:

 

Librarian Dreadnought

Techmarine

Tactical Squad (10) in Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (5) in Drop Pod

Scouts

Furioso in Dreadnought Drop Pod

Mortis Dreadnought

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought

 

Typhus

Plaguecaster

Necrosius

Tallyman

Plaguemarines

Plaguemarines (Rhino)

Poxwalkers

Hellbrute

Blight Drones x2

Blight Hauler

Plagueburst Crawler

 

 

Four Pillars (page 297). Primary objectives, scored in the Command Phase:

• Hold one or more objectives - 5 points
• Hold two or more objectives - 5 points
• Hold more than your opponent - 5 points

My secondaries:

• Linebreaker (score 4 at end of your turn if unit fully within)
• Engage on All Fronts (score 2 at end of turn your if one unit fully within three or more quarters, score three if a unit in each (and more than 6" away from the centre)
• Dominion (Score 4 if holding more objectives than your opponent at end of turn)

His secondaries:

• Bring it down (score 2 when you take down a vehicle with less than 10 wounds, 2 if 11+ at end of game)
• Assassinate (3 points for killing a character)
• Attrition (kill more than your opponent, gain 4 points end of battle round)

Deployment saw my four Dreadnoughts cluster around, but not on :facepalm: the objective in my quarter. Libby Dread out in front, Techmarine by the Rifleman, Scouts on a flank as bait, Pods in reserve.

Plagueburst at the back, Poxwalkers far forward with Typhus, Rhino and cargo nearby. Necrosius took the Scout bait and went as close as possible, Drones out in the centre, Remaining Troops, Hellbrute, and characters near his home objective.

 

Basic mission rules are different depending on what level you play i.e Four Pillars (Incursion) is different from Four Pillars (Strikeforce). In this particular version, we rolled off at each stage so you don't know if you're going first until the last roll (no modifiers). As is more often the case these days, I went second. Also, it specifically says you can't plonk reinforcements within range of an objective...

 

T1

Poxwalkers and Typhus shuffle forwards towards my lines/home objective. Libby dread gets blown apart... Necrosius charges Scouts, whiffs attack and loses three wounds to combined overwatch and combat.

No room for the Pods in his Quarter, so the smaller one goes near his toops blob (Contemptor moves up in support), other near my Leviathan which has moved across into the other quarter - half stay with him, half head towards my home objective. Rifleman onto objective. Both Drones are blown apart, Leviathan (armed with gravf-flux bombard and storm cannon) whiffs it's ungodly amount of shots on the Poxwalkers (has a history of doing this). Necrosius is beaten in combat (seriously, never mess with my Scouts or Devastators) and the five man squad gets a charge off on the Plagemarines but bounces off (two left)

10-5

 

T2

Rhino barfs out it's cargo towards the Scouts and scuttles towards an objective. The Plague Marine cargo shoot and then mop up the Scouts in combat but they are now well out of the game. Hellbrute charges the Contemptor who swats it aside with ease. Spell shenanigans finish off the small Tactical Squad. Poxwalkers engage both combat squads, ending the turn on at full strength but out of range of Typhus (as you can't daisy chain anymore)

An opening has appeared in their Deployment zone which sees the DDP land and the Furioso head towards the Plagueburst. After melta shots and charging it has three wounds remaining. Combat squads fall back and the Leviathan kills fourteen Poxwalkers and knocks some wounds off the Rhino.

15-17

 

T3

Objective secured from the Poxwalkers sees them grab my home objective who quite happily move up and engage the couple of contesting Marines that are left after shooting. My Contemptor is shot by virtually everything, "magic-missiled", and then mugged in combat for his last two wounds. Typhus rips apart a Drop Pod. Plagueburst falls back from the Furioso.

Techmarine engages and finishes the remaining Poxwalkers in combat. Rhino is nuked and Leviathan and the two Marines near him engage him in combat to try and remove the last two wounds after shooting. The Leviathan loses 12 wounds for its troubles (Typhus now on 1 wound). The Furioso runs over to an objective.

36-24

 

T4

Spells, shots, and combat finish off the Drop Pod in the one quarter. Typhus takes down the Leviathan but dies in the explosion (as does a nearby Marine and a Plague Marine from the Scout-beating Squad which are still running over)

Very little from me, just keeping put and trading a few shots

42-45

 

T5

He kills a couple of Marines, the Furioso, and puts the Rifleman down to four wounds. I take out the Plageburst and the odd Marine

45-57

Edited July 27, 2020 by Jolemai

[Pathstrider]

I’m surprised nobody brought this up yet but a big change for us is the rule that we only get 1 captain per a detachment. I think we are the only ones (ravenguard and white scars might too) that’ll be hurting from that rule considering our fondness (as a faction) for running multiple smash captains.

Considering the changes to assault, characters, and detachments I have a feeling most of us weren’t considering running a lot of characters in the first place.

Where’s this rule been added? I must have missed it...

[Spagunk]

I think it was brought up during a live stream + blurry potato image of a page. Nothing specifically pointing it out IIRC.

[Thoridon]

The new bikes (and their bases) are huge. They could be rather handy for blocking off enemy movement.

 

[Captain Caine 24th]

 

I’m surprised nobody brought this up yet but a big change for us is the rule that we only get 1 captain per a detachment. I think we are the only ones (ravenguard and white scars might too) that’ll be hurting from that rule considering our fondness (as a faction) for running multiple smash captains.

Considering the changes to assault, characters, and detachments I have a feeling most of us weren’t considering running a lot of characters in the first place.

Where’s this rule been added? I must have missed it...

 

The new codex space marines was recently previewed, and several diligent youtubers were able to discern new rules from stills of the video.

[Cleon]

Haas anyone seen the slightly odd (assumed) Blood Angel on page 29 before or is that new art? 

He's definitely Primaris and has got our red armour, yellow helmet and right knee marking of a Blood Angel close support squad, with what looks like an ornate golden Blood Angels logo on his wrist, but he's wearing an assault cross instead of the company drop on his shoulder and is wielding a plasma pistol despite being a non sergeant (red shoulders) - a suggestion that Assault intercessors will be able to have plasma pistol upgrades in the squad or just confused heraldry getting the sergeant wrong?

[SamaNagol]

The 2 hits on a 6 was deemed a mistake in reading the blurry image. It is 1 extra hit.

Getting cumulative -3AP from turn 3 is pretty good on these new units with Astartes Chainswords. Although I agree, not mind blowing.

They seem to have made most of the Chapter Tactics a lot more middling than they were before. Sallies and Iron Hands getting dialled back.

I had previously stated that I would have liked GW to just give us Flesh Tearers an option of Chain Axes at the same +1S, -1AP for 1pt per model that Khorne Marines have. Gets us wounding Marine Equivalents on 2s.

I don't hold out any hope for Primaris Sanguinary Guard yet, but I am pretty sure that these October releases will see us get access to those Death Company Assault Intercesor options we were promised in the WarhammerTV live, just like Deathwatch should get the Indomitus units and the rest of the Phobos ones they are missing.

 

 

 

 

 

Flesh Tearers chapter tactic seems at a glance at stills taken from the codex video to stack with doctrines which i hope is correct, althoug due to quality of the video might be incorrect. I'm not bothered whether it is better or worse than the BA's +1 adv/charge rolls in the end with this change, but just the fact that we can actually make use of the trait now inside assault doctrine makes me so much happier than before.

Are you certain that's true? So far, the latest FAQ states that they can't stack their AP with the Assault Doctrine and the overview of the codex leak doesn't seem to change that...

 
Best quality i could find from the video. I read "On an unmodified wound roll of 6, improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of that attack by 1. This is cumulative with the bonus from the Assault Doctrine if it is active for your army".

 

While that's awesome, the FT tactic is still weak overall. Compare 2 additional (200% more) hits on a 6 that fists get, with the -1 AP (16% more failed saves) on a 6, which all marines get for free on T3 anyway. FT's should be a flat -1AP in combat. 

 

Still, excited for the changes. 

 

[Shaezus]

Had 3 games of 9th so far and got another one coming up this week. Oh boy, what a difference!

 

These, for me, are huge impacts on any assault BA list:

 

1. The change to multi charge

2. Coherency

 

These two together mean no more arriving T2, declaring on everything within 12" and using Honour the Chapter to leave a huge gaping hole in the opponent's army. Wrapping is no longer viable if you have a squad of more than 5 guys. Likewise conga - line and consolidating to tag vehicles will be less effective

 

3. Vehicles shooting when locked in combat. Despite the -1 to hit they get its still huge. Effectively an extra round of shooting compared to before. Still worth doing if it stops them targeting other units in your armyarmy and stops your locked unit from being shot up badly. Situationally still worth tagging vehicles, but much less safer than before.

 

Just my tuppence! Have fun and please share your experiences!

[Indefragable]

Theorems:

 

A. Being in C:SM means we will likely get the infinite Relics stratagems...

 

B. If A above is true, especially with the changes to OW, I can see the Gleaming Pinions becoming a thing now. Especially in tandem with Angel’s Wing. Doesn’t have to go on a Capt, but still useful

 

C. “Tagging” vehicles no longer works. We need to focus from “turn off their guns” to “put that power fist up the tailpipe.” On one hand, it is harder for non-geared units to be as effective in melee. On the other hand, I think we are in a uniquely goo place for punching vehicles to death: +1 To Wound and far less Overwatch to eat. We have a good selection of units that we can hide power fists or TH in, I think this could be key. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

We may even get access to SM relics in addition to BA relics. Chapters like Sallies, WS and Ultras get generic SM relics in addition to those they get in their individual supps. I’m really hoping to get access to Teeth of Terra. Less likely, but still possible is we may get access to units like TFC and Cents, but we may not as we already get access to stuff like Death Coy and Sang Guard, just as DA get access to their RW and DW units and Space Puppies get their special units, so we may not get them due to internal balancing issues.

[Blindhamster]

realistically, we're likely to work pretty much the same as ultramarines.

 

so we'd use everything from the core marine codex (including stratagems, psychic powers and relics). But then also get our own list of stratagems, psychic powers and relics on top. Which is a pretty big win for us tbh.

 

p.s. the reason i compare us to ultramarines, is that like ultramarines, we have quite a lot of characters (though im still confident we'll see a couple go the way of legends tbh), and we also have unique units.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Blindhamster

[SnorriSnorrison]

Having SM psychic and relics would be a massive boost for us. For that reason alone I’m skeptical that we’ll have access to all the units in the main codex. I would not be surprised about a passage that reads “when replacing CHAPTER keyword with Blood Angels (or successors), the following units form C:SM cannot be selected from the unit roster in detachments using this keyword.”

 

But that might just be me being suspicious. :D

 

Bizarrely, what I want right now is less Space Marine stuff. I want to see new Eldar, Tau and even bugs. Just for a visual stimulation if nothing else. They still have resin models, for emperors sake.

[Blindhamster]

I'd like to see more eldar too. But I'm not complaining about new marine stuff lol