BA and 9th Ed

[Midnightmare]

I would like to see more Eldar.......to tear limb from limb!!! For Sanguinius!!

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

New Guardian Defenders and Dire Avengers would be cool, as would Striking Scorpions.

[Jolemai]

... did I walk into a xenos wishlist thread?

[Indefragable]

The dilemma is new models bring power creep.

 

....do Eldar really (ever) need more?

[SnorriSnorrison]

... did I walk into a xenos wishlist thread?

We could pretend that we’re asking for more diverse targets to practice on...

[Quixus]

Bizarrely, what I want right now is less Space Marine stuff. I want to see new Eldar, Tau and even bugs. Just for a visual stimulation if nothing else. They still have resin models, for emperors sake.

That is not bizarre given the number of SM releases vs other releases.

[Spagunk]

In My Opinion, there's nothing in the C:SM that specifically tickles my pickle as it were.

 

I'm glad ya'll are excited to get access to "new" units but honestly nothing we previously didn't have access to provides any major benefit for us. Centurions and Thunderfire cannons aren't terribly meta relevant for us as they can't really keep up with BA fast and hard approach. For that, you're better off with Vanguard primaris (Eliminators, Infiltrators/Incursors etc.)  since they can forward deploy and lock down enemy troops. Land Speeder Storms are interesting too but also a case where in they're not terribly relevant even if they can definitely keep up with everything else. It's more of a "Nice to Have" than any particular need for these.

 

I suppose a case can be made about relics but honestly I highly doubt we'd get access to them as, for better or for worse, we already have a huge listing of our own now. I would imagine we just get some rewording updates on the existing ones in our next iteration with text to say that we can't use standard SM versions.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Spagunk

[Indefragable]

In My Opinion, there's nothing in the C:SM that specifically tickles my pickle as it were.

 

I'm glad ya'll are excited to get access to "new" units but honestly nothing we previously didn't have access to provides any major benefit for us. Centurions and Thunderfire cannons aren't terribly meta relevant for us as they can't really keep up with BA fast and hard approach. For that, you're better off with Vanguard primaris (Eliminators, Infiltrators/Incursors etc.) since they can forward deploy and lock down enemy troops. Land Speeder Storms are interesting too but also a case where in they're not terribly relevant even if they can definitely keep up with everything else. It's more of a "Nice to Have" than any particular need for these.

 

I suppose a case can be made about relics but honestly I highly doubt we'd get access to them as, for better or for worse, we already have a huge listing of our own now. I would imagine we just get some rewording updates on the existing ones in our next iteration with text to say that we can't use standard SM versions.

Yea my concern is that we get access to C:SM relics, then other chapters will complain that we are essentially +1 since we main book, our own codex’s, and Blood of Baal’s (to their main book + supplement). In which case we may be cut off from main C:SM relics for that reason, or have ours greatly reduced and replaced by C:SM ones, which could very well leave us at a net negative. Before we start salivating over Teeth of Terra, let’s remember that with GW’s track record they cut out Angel’s Wing and leave us Archangel’s Shard. It’s a roll of the dice in a bad way.

[Blindhamster]

i'd also bet that once codex marines is out, our current codex and blood of baal are heavily erratad. and once we have our own supplement (not long after codex drop i think) we'll no longer be allowed to use blood of baal or the old codex. Which is no different from other editions. I also think that it's very unlikely we'll work any differently to other supplements once our supplement is out. i.e. we will be:

Codex Space marines (using everything in it) + our new supplement (which is confirmed to keep our current unit roster, but isn't confirmed to keep all our current characters). So in theory we should be able to look at the other marine supplements to get a feeling for how many artefacts and strats may survive.

[Vermintide]

In My Opinion, there's nothing in the C:SM that specifically tickles my pickle as it were.

 

I'm glad ya'll are excited to get access to "new" units but honestly nothing we previously didn't have access to provides any major benefit for us. Centurions and Thunderfire cannons aren't terribly meta relevant for us as they can't really keep up with BA fast and hard approach. For that, you're better off with Vanguard primaris (Eliminators, Infiltrators/Incursors etc.)  since they can forward deploy and lock down enemy troops. Land Speeder Storms are interesting too but also a case where in they're not terribly relevant even if they can definitely keep up with everything else. It's more of a "Nice to Have" than any particular need for these.

 

I suppose a case can be made about relics but honestly I highly doubt we'd get access to them as, for better or for worse, we already have a huge listing of our own now. I would imagine we just get some rewording updates on the existing ones in our next iteration with text to say that we can't use standard SM versions.

Which is the Dred with the better BS? Venerable? Ironclad? Either way it's just a straight upgrade on a regular Dread, and I still love those boxy little fellas. I could see myself using it, but then I'm a proponent of the "BA are not a pure melee army" philosophy. We're a mixed army that specialises in melee, and I reckon improved fire support from the C:SM units would do us a great deal favours in backing up our more rip and tear boys.

 

I mean, why else were we restricted from having them in the first place?

 

(Damn kids. Back in my day you had one Dreadnaught for all your business, and you liked it!)

[Spagunk]

 

Which is the Dred with the better BS? Venerable? Ironclad? Either way it's just a straight upgrade on a regular Dread, and I still love those boxy little fellas. I could see myself using it, but then I'm a proponent of the "BA are not a pure melee army" philosophy. We're a mixed army that specialises in melee, and I reckon improved fire support from the C:SM units would do us a great deal favours in backing up our more rip and tear boys.

 

I mean, why else were we restricted from having them in the first place?

 

(Damn kids. Back in my day you had one Dreadnaught for all your business, and you liked it!)

 

 

I mean TECHNICALLY all dreads came standard with 2 powerfists. So when you say there was only one dreadnought, that's watering down the situation a bit.

 

That said, I don't really see how the ironclad or Venerable dread would make THAT much of a difference or would matter. We have comparable units, albeit slightly worse off, that accomplish the same goals. The units I highlight are ones without approximations which is why I only centered on the three items (4 since centurions come in both assault and shooty varieties).

 

And I said fast and hard approach, that doesn't mean exclusively melee :p. I mean BA is about movement in general: jump units, fast predators, etc. You can still have shooty AND fast with BA; we just have access to more melee and are a bit better at it than most.

[Arkhanist]

Venerable dreads come with non-degrading 2+ BS/WS though, so they're an alternative to the relic contemptor for us old kneeless boxnaut fans which I wouldn't mind being able to use.

 

TFC for non-LOS artillery which doesn't suck (as opposed to the standard whirlwind) would also be useful. But I suspect we may not gain anything new from the firstborn codex units, to balance our custom units.

 

Nothing essential though we're missing from the codex as-is. Losing firstborn death company or sanguinary guard would suck really hard, but I don't see that as at all likely.

[Indefragable]

I’d be excited if we get Ven Dreads and the Super Company Champion (ala the strategems and WLTs that can make him a monster). Ven Dreads are such a wonderful balance of firepower and cost-efficiency. My friend/opponent who plays Salamanders won’t stop sending me spreadsheets on just how good they are for the price (in 8th, we’ll see about 9th). As others have said, BS/WS2+ with a 6+++ is not shabby, especially when you can activate a free re-roll bubble for yourself ala stratagem.

[Quixus]

6+++ is only for Iron Hands, or am, I missing something?

[Arkhanist]

6+++ is only for Iron Hands, or am, I missing something?

Venerable dreads have it as an ability.

 

Unyielding Ancient: When this model would lose a wound, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost.

[Drunken Angel]

The thing is BA or C:SM We just don't have that many points for what we put on the board. I've had a few games in 9th format.

Its a multi purpose shooting game you can have assault sure and we do it well but you cant ignore the shooting and all round objective scoring capability in any list now.  

 

5x Intercessors Sgt TH

5x Incursors

6x Incursors

Astorath

Phobos Cpt

Sang Ancient 

9 Sang Guard

5 Sang Guard

3x Eliminators

3x Eliminators

1x Redemptor Dread

 

1500 points.  Thats it!  There is no fat in our lists. You cant afford to hold anything in reserve for very long.  

The game is pretty much decided in the first 3 turns.  Our lethal assault doctrine doesn't  kick in till 3rd turn.  In the meantime you better be shooting stuff dead.  

And you cant hold anything in reserves longer than 2nd turn, it's too many points not scoring objectives for you.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Drunken Angel

[Xenith]

Venerable dreads is the only thing I truly desire from the SM codex. Bit tougher and that sweet BS2+ hits the spot for lascannons. Combine that with no move-shoot penalty and shooting into combat, vendreads will be nasty this edition, though if you want him in combat, lascannons may not be best.

[Arkhanist]

Venerable dreads is the only thing I truly desire from the SM codex. Bit tougher and that sweet BS2+ hits the spot for lascannons. Combine that with no move-shoot penalty and shooting into combat, vendreads will be nasty this edition, though if you want him in combat, lascannons may not be best.

The ability to take twin autocannon on either/both arms on the ven dread would have been nice with BS2+ and no move penalty, but has gone to Legends IIRC.

[Karhedron]

I have been tinkering with some of my lists and updating them for 9th edition. I have been running all-infantry lists a lot so the changes have not been too drastic as the increased price of units has been offset to some extent by the drop in infantry-based heavy weapons.

 

I typically ran dual Battlion in 8th. Since extra detachments now cost us CPs rather than providing them, I have trimmed down to a single Battalion. To make this work, I dropped my Lieutenant (who was mainly taken as an HQ tax anyway). This means I can run my 8th edition list with just the loss of a single HQ at 1500 points. Here is my updated list.

 

HQ

155 Captain Smash (Warlord) with TH, Storm Shield Death Visions and Artisan of War, Angel's Wing jump pack

170 Mephiston (Smite, Wings, Quickening, Unleash rage)

110 Lemartes

 

Troops

100 5 Intercessors

90 5 Tactical Marines with Missile Launcher

85 5 Tactical Marines with Heavy bolter

70 5 Scouts

80 5 Scouts and Serg with Power fist

100 5 Intercessors

 

Heavy

165 7 devastators, 3 Lascannons, Plasma Cannon, Cherub

 

Elite

245 10 Death Company with Jump Packs, 2 PF, 3 PS

 

Fast

120 3 Inceptors with assault bolters

 

1490 Total

 

Now the fact that I don't have to fill 6 Troop slots anymore mean I could tinker with the list slightly such as replacing the 2 Scout squads with a squad of Infiltrators or Incursors for example. Other people's lists may take more of a hit but infantry-heavy lists don't seem to have been too badly hurt so far.

[BluejayJunior]

Venerable dreads is the only thing I truly desire from the SM codex. Bit tougher and that sweet BS2+ hits the spot for lascannons. Combine that with no move-shoot penalty and shooting into combat, vendreads will be nasty this edition, though if you want him in combat, lascannons may not be best.

I feel the same way. I don't really care about any other unit. Centurions are good, but I hate those models. They're probably the only space marine models that I don't like. 

[Karhedron]

Is anyone else interested by the rumoured new "Heavy Intercessors"? Just in case you haven't seen this yet, they look like a Gravis unit with a heavy bolt rifle and it is speculated they are a multi-part kit with the new Eradicators.

 

 

There appears to be a matching Captain too

 

 

Now we have no leaked stats yet but i think we can safely assume T5 3W and something equal or better than a stalker bolt rifle. The leak from the Table of Contents on the new Codex also heavily implies they will be a Troop choice. This is supported by the BA version being painted with a red helmet.

 

"So what?", I hear you ask. Well it looks like objective control will be a big thing in 9th edition. It strikes me that a squad or two of these guys with the Standard of Sacrifice to keep them standing (and possibly even a Sanguinary Novitiate) could be awesome objective grabbers. Your opponent will not be shiftong these guys without dedicating his heaviest hitters to attacking them. And if you know where your opponent's best units will be aiming, you can set up some of your hammer units to intercept them.

 

Obviously there is a lot that could happen when we finally get solid stats but the idea of super-duable Troops units has got me thinking.

[Indefragable]

Didn’t the rumors say that Heavy Intercessors were Heavy Support slot?

[Arkhanist]

Didn’t the rumors say that Heavy Intercessors were Heavy Support slot?

Going from the BA example, he's got a red helmet and I think that's a skull-on-black squad icon. So 1st squad battleline means he's likely to be a troops choice. If it's a heavy support slot, I'd expect it to be a blue helmet with a yellow/black wing icon instead.

[Panzer]

Since it got the red helmet indicating it'll be a Battleline option I doubt it'll be a multi-part kit with Eradicators. Unless that is we'll be getting the first ever Battleline placed outside of the Troops slot lol

[Majkhel]

Technically, the same happens with the Infiltrators/Incursors, where Infiltrators are Battleline, and Incursors are Close Support.
I would worry more with another bolter name to be remembered :D