SnorriSnorrison Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 So I don’t want to rain on the parade here...all our good relics are gone. We no longer have the Sanguinary Discipline so no jumping Dreadnoughts or Mephiston. No 3-wound Sanguinary Guard. All our named characters get the terrible warlord trait from C:SM. We have 4 stratagems, one of which is pre-game. DC capped at 10 models (but 2 wounds...). Good: new Sanguinor rules make me think that there is a new model in the pipeline for him. Dante isn’t completely useless. Wow, this is quite a blow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Happy with some of those tbh. So I don’t want to rain on the parade here...all our good relics are gone. We no longer have the Sanguinary Discipline so no jumping Dreadnoughts or Mephiston. No 3-wound Sanguinary Guard. All our named characters get the terrible warlord trait from C:SM. We have 4 stratagems, one of which is pre-game. DC capped at 10 models (but 2 wounds...). Good: new Sanguinor rules make me think that there is a new model in the pipeline for him. Dante isn’t completely useless. Wow, this is quite a blow... For now. This is just a "get you by" list like the Index was. Helias_Tancred and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 This isn't the supplement so no point passing judgement yey Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Happy with some of those tbh. So I don’t want to rain on the parade here...all our good relics are gone. We no longer have the Sanguinary Discipline so no jumping Dreadnoughts or Mephiston. No 3-wound Sanguinary Guard. All our named characters get the terrible warlord trait from C:SM. We have 4 stratagems, one of which is pre-game. DC capped at 10 models (but 2 wounds...). Good: new Sanguinor rules make me think that there is a new model in the pipeline for him. Dante isn’t completely useless. Wow, this is quite a blow... For now. This is just a "get you by" list like the Index was. Yes, and it’s the same mess it’s been before. Also, our DC can’t have Bolters and chainswords apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I'm loving these, despite some obvious dodgy stuff. Anything with a death mask being at -1 to hit at all times, Dante might see some board time, and Sanguard are ace. Corbulo making evveything within 6" be in assault doctrine all the time is crazy. Some weird stuff like reducing furiosos move to 6" from 8". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Pretty sure it's the same across the board. They aren't going to give us free content after all. This will get us by until the supplement arrives. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caine 24th Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) taking a look at this index astartes here... what a surprise this is. 23 pages. Dante's 'epic hero of the imperium' rule allows him to use an 'epic deed' strat for 0CP. Makes me wonder what sorts of stratgems will fall under that title. Corbulo seems really flavorful, with the red grail making assault doctrine active within 6" for core and characters. Also he gets to use the narchethium and combat restoratives (twice). Sanguinor can appear into combat during enemy heroic intervention phase? Am I reading that right? talk about a scalpel directed precisely where needed. He still adds a +1 attack aura, and can charge after falling back like before. Looks like he's got a 6" heroic intervention range now too. Liking the 'duty eternal' being native to all dreadnoughts now. For me, the librarian dreadnought really edges out Mephiston, if I had to choose between the two. Both dread libby and death co dreads get smokescreen keyword (oddly the wargear section omits this on the libby, but not the death co). Astrorath's mass of doom doesn't look like 1x per battle now. I'm not sure if I'm remembering that right. Lemartes allows re-roll charges still (would have been cool if it was worded one or both dice). Notably the nerf to 'and they they shall no no fear' means leadership is important.. and death company at 7 is not good. Lemartes might be even more important to help them than previously. Sanguinary guard appear to get a native -1 to hit in combat now instead of purchasing a death mask (angelic visage). Sanguinary priest with a jump pack is an option. Doesn't appear to have wargear options though. Edited October 5, 2020 by Captain Caine 24th Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) A month or so of a temporary PDF until the full supplement arrives is better than a month or so of "You get what's in the Codex and nothing else.". It would've been impractical to keep all the existing relics etc. given some of the core changes. I have no issues with this given we know our supplement will be one of the first. Sanguinor will make a nice little ambush unit. A pity the +1A aura no longer stacks with shock assault but then again stacking buffs was starting to get out of hand. At least he can provide that if a unit gets bogged down in melee after the charge. Dante seems better. S7 with the chapter tactic means wounding a lot of bigger stuff on 3s, T8+ on a 4. He'll also get the 2+ to wound against any T6 monsters which is useful. Whether he'll be worth the point vs a regular unit remains to be seen. Hard to judge Mephiston/Librarians until we see our new set of psychic powers in the supplement. Right now sure, they'll be missing key things like Wings. Not really a nerf as it's temporary but it'll certainly change the way they work in the short term. Sanguinary Guard will pack more of a punch now with the extra attack. Arguably better than getting a 3rd wound. Combined with encarmine weapons getting the added strength and flat 2 damage they should certainly be more reliable in attack. Edited October 5, 2020 by Thoridon Helias_Tancred and Drunken Angel 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) Yeah, I mostly like what I've seen. Disappointed that SG stayed at 2W, but got an extra attack, weapons are damage 2, -1 to be hit in melee, and get +1 to hit if near WL. Death Company Intercessors can take the Assault Intercessor loadout. The Wrath of Baal banner looks pretty dope. Librarian Dreadnought seems to have taken a little bit of a blow. Only one attack with the force halberd per round. But it's essentially a free attack. Edited October 5, 2020 by BluejayJunior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Wrath of Baal has been the same it’s been since BoB, and it wasn’t used then...a nerf overall I feel. I do expect none of those changes to change again when the supplement drops, just point changes if at all. It’s not a good day to play Blood Angels, so back to painting it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 To those asking about the Terminator Ancient (a few pages back), there's one in the "core" Codex. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 SG seem good even without an additional wound and 30 points is really cheap. I don't get why Primaris DC can't freely mix weapons. 30pts for a jump pack on Priest making him 120? 125pts for SG Ancient? Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Also, our DC can’t have Bolters and chainswords apparently. Honestly I'm fine with that, and that's coming from someone who cut off all bolt pistols to replace them with bolters for 8th :p It felt an odd change when all the artwork shows pistols with the melee weapon (and pretty much all other normal units choose between a 2h gun or a pistol+melee). I wouldn't be surprised if Sergeants get the same treatment in the codex, though maybe they'll still be allowed due to the rank and being 1 per squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Wrath of Baal has been the same it’s been since BoB, and it wasn’t used then...a nerf overall I feel. I do expect none of those changes to change again when the supplement drops, just point changes if at all. It’s not a good day to play Blood Angels, so back to painting it is... Fair enough, I don't remember most of the relics in BoB. I haven't spent much time studying them. I've only gotten in a couple games with BA since it came out. Why do you feel so down on them right now? I feel like BA are still in a pretty good place. I don't expect the datasheets or the listed relics to change, but I do expect to see new relics, warlord traits, psychic powers in the supplement when it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 SG seem good even without an additional wound and 30 points is really cheap. I don't get why Primaris DC can't freely mix weapons. 30pts for a jump pack on Priest making him 120? 125pts for SG Ancient? Yikes. Yeah but the priests aura is *nuts*. It’s not a good day to play Blood Angels, so back to painting it is... Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Wrath of Baal has been the same it’s been since BoB, and it wasn’t used then...a nerf overall I feel. I do expect none of those changes to change again when the supplement drops, just point changes if at all. It’s not a good day to play Blood Angels, so back to painting it is... Fair enough, I don't remember most of the relics in BoB. I haven't spent much time studying them. I've only gotten in a couple games with BA since it came out. Why do you feel so down on them right now? I feel like BA are still in a pretty good place. I don't expect the datasheets or the listed relics to change, but I do expect to see new relics, warlord traits, psychic powers in the supplement when it comes out. I think that most of the changes coupled with the points increases are nerfs after all, not buffs. Sang guard are DOA without the banner or the third wound, and I don’t mean Descent of Angels, because we don’t have that, either. That supplement better be hot stuff to make up for that pdf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) SG seem good even without an additional wound and 30 points is really cheap. I don't get why Primaris DC can't freely mix weapons. 30pts for a jump pack on Priest making him 120? 125pts for SG Ancient? Yikes. Yeah but the priests aura is *nuts*. It’s not a good day to play Blood Angels, so back to painting it is... Really? But it's not an aura. And has no effect during assault doctrine so the guy is useless for 2/3 of the game. There's healing of course, but the tax is high - I think it's better to get 4 additional SG. Edited October 5, 2020 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Okay, so I am feeling totally opposite to you guys it seems. Dante seems great, he went up by 5 points, but picked up a native -1 to hit him, he finally grants his army an extra CP (not as good as calgar, but still great), he can use an epic deed strat for 0 CP (stuff like "only in death does duty end"), and then yeah his chapter master buff got changed to the new chapter master rule, but honestly I think thats fine particularly seeing as if you run him with his usual friends - sanguinary guard, they get native +1 to hit now which means they get full rerolls generally still! Sanguinor also has a really fun and thematic rule that is great with miraculous saviour. The sanguinary guard have actually been made pretty good in a fight too IMO, run them where they should be - with the warlord, and they hit on 2s, make enemies hit them back with -1 to hit and they now have built in 3 attacks and consistent damage weapons. Seems good enough tbh. I dislike the fact death company intercessors, just like veteran ones can't mix and match weapons. DC intercessors are basically just veteran ones that have FNP but lower Ld. As a "tide you over" Errata, I don't think its terrible tbh Drunken Angel, keeblerartillery, Matarno - Lord of Skyfall and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 SG seem good even without an additional wound and 30 points is really cheap. I don't get why Primaris DC can't freely mix weapons. 30pts for a jump pack on Priest making him 120? 125pts for SG Ancient? Yikes. Yeah but the priests aura is *nuts*. It’s not a good day to play Blood Angels, so back to painting it is... Really? But it's not an aura. And has no effect during assault doctrine so the guy is useless for 2/3 of the game. There's healing of course, but the tax is high - I think it's better to get 4 additional SG. or - it means we don't need to rush for assault doctrine as fast anymore, we can stay in tactical doctrine for longer (making better use of our shooty elements) whilst our melee elements count as being in assault doctrine anyway. Remember its Devastator, Tactical, Tactical/Assault, Assault, Assault. Tbh, I'd probably choose tactical over assault if i can use a grail to do so. Of course as a primaris blood angel player, i dont expect to have the option still lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just because it's not an aura doesn't mean it's not good, infact it's better. You don't need to be nearby in the Fight Phase for it to be active so no Daisy chaining necessary. Sanguinary Guard could easily get in range for a T2 charge with a Priest buff ready to absolutely crush things with 5A each and enhanced AP. Or you could forlorn some DC forward (but chaining enough back to be in range of the Priest) in your T1 command phase and give it to them. Blindhamster 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momerathe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) Or you could forlorn some DC forward (but chaining enough back to be in range of the Priest) in your T1 command phase and give it to them.With the stratagem that no longer exists, you mean? I’m just going to ignore this.. aberration... until the codex supplement comes out. Edited October 5, 2020 by momerathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 come on guys, its a holdover and we are supposed to be the chapter who have hope despite the darkness! :D BluejayJunior and keeblerartillery 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 My bad, didn't read the strats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I’m stunned by the negativity. I am so giddy right now. There is SO MUCH FLUFFY VIABILITY. There doesn’t feel like a “only run this, everything else is crap” list anymore. Hell, Tycho is actually useful again as a bonus buff to DC. I’m just so happy with the direction of everything and think we are primed for a) new models and b) a top notch place on the table Blindhamster and BluejayJunior 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Transhuman Physiology being locked to Primaris now is a bit of a knock for Sanguinary Guard. What does that do again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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