BA and 9th Ed

[Thoridon]

I suspect they made an error on the DC Intercessor sheet as there are two entries for a model with a heavy bolt pistol to replace it with a hand flamer or plasma pistol.

 

I think the second version of it in the indented bullet point list is supposed to be something like "If equipped with an Astartes chainsword, have it replaced with a power sword / power fist / thunder hammer etc."

[Xenith]

Since there is no sergeant in DC, intercessors can equip 1 model with a special weapon in compensation, which won’t get the extra attack from being a sergeant, just from being DC.

Honestly not much changed except for the chainswords on all of the guys.

 

Well, DC intercessors were allowed to have a special melee weapon because standard intercessors were. It makes no sense for the assault intercessor parallel to have no access to melee weapons when the codex parallel unit has access. One can only assume it's a model issue, which will be erratad when the MPK is released. 

[Rhavien]

But doesn't the new SM codex allow AI's to take a special CCW on the sergeant?

Um, well, I think so, yeah? Maybe because they didn't want to release a brand new codex and update the datasheet weeks after the release? And with our PDF they were like "feth it, will get invalidated soon anyway. Gary has beaten me too often with his BA, so I don't grant him this, till he buys the new book. "

Frankly, I have no idea. I just won't build/paint an assault DC intercessor with special weapon till I know for sure that it will be legal.

 

@snorri

Yeah sure, they don't have sergeants, but regular intercessors can have one special melee weapon like a Sergeant. That's what I mean. And right now their assault brethren are not allowed to have one, just those mighty important pistols.

 

Thinking about that this is really weird. They get the option for a hand flamer that's not yet available, but not the melee weapons... I have a bad feeling about this.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

Since there is no sergeant in DC, intercessors can equip 1 model with a special weapon in compensation, which won’t get the extra attack from being a sergeant, just from being DC.

Honestly not much changed except for the chainswords on all of the guys.

 

 

Well, DC intercessors were allowed to have a special melee weapon because standard intercessors were. It makes no sense for the assault intercessor parallel to have no access to melee weapons when the codex parallel unit has access. One can only assume it's a model issue, which will be erratad when the MPK is released.

I might be confused now, but they still can take a special weapon, don’t they? All of them, except claws. Just one model can take any of them.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

Since there is no sergeant in DC, intercessors can equip 1 model with a special weapon in compensation, which won’t get the extra attack from being a sergeant, just from being DC.

Honestly not much changed except for the chainswords on all of the guys.

 

Well, DC intercessors were allowed to have a special melee weapon because standard intercessors were. It makes no sense for the assault intercessor parallel to have no access to melee weapons when the codex parallel unit has access. One can only assume it's a model issue, which will be erratad when the MPK is released.

I might be confused now, but they still can take a special weapon, don’t they? All of them, except claws. Just one model can take any of them.

 

DC intercessors currently, as worded, can only take a special melee weapon if they are equipped with some form of bolt rifle, both the melee weapon bullet points specifically exclude chainsword wielding intercessors from upgrading to one of the special melee weapons. Which is what has caused the confusion.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Ah, yes I see it now. It’s a weird wording for sure and looks like it’s missing “can replace his bolt rifle with” because if the model doesn’t have a chainsword or a power sword, it surely must have a bolt rifle?

 

I’m really quite bummed about the Sanguinary Priest. Even with power weapons having the innate strength bonus, he’ll only buff 1 core (why? Why would a “magical” effect care about how regularly a unit appears in an army?) unit with -1 AP. I hope they clean that special rule up, because it reads like it’s only the extra AP from the assault doctrine, not savage echoes.

[Karhedron]

I’m really quite bummed about the Sanguinary Priest. Even with power weapons having the innate strength bonus, he’ll only buff 1 core (why? Why would a “magical” effect care about how regularly a unit appears in an army?) unit with -1 AP. I hope they clean that special rule up, because it reads like it’s only the extra AP from the assault doctrine, not savage echoes.

TO be fair, the Red Grail is a small bonus if you are alpha striking. The real deal here is a flying source of 6+++, healing and ressurrection using the new Combat Revival Straatgem. He can now heal and revive in the same turn. Give him the Chief Apothecary ability (hopefully we get that or the equivalent in our codex) and he can heal 2 separate squads and revive a fallen model for free. He brings different buffs from 8th edition but still good buffs IMHO. The 6+++ helps take the stings out losing the SoS (slightly).

[Charlo]

 

I’m really quite bummed about the Sanguinary Priest. Even with power weapons having the innate strength bonus, he’ll only buff 1 core (why? Why would a “magical” effect care about how regularly a unit appears in an army?) unit with -1 AP. I hope they clean that special rule up, because it reads like it’s only the extra AP from the assault doctrine, not savage echoes.

TO be fair, the Red Grail is a small bonus if you are alpha striking. The real deal here is a flying source of 6+++, healing and ressurrection using the new Combat Revival Straatgem. He can now heal and revive in the same turn. Give him the Chief Apothecary ability (hopefully we get that or the equivalent in our codex) and he can heal 2 separate squads and revive a fallen model for free. He brings different buffs from 8th edition but still good buffs IMHO. The 6+++ helps take the stings out losing the SoS (slightly).

 

RE Chief Apothecary, he already has the specific key words to be upgraded.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

I’m really quite bummed about the Sanguinary Priest. Even with power weapons having the innate strength bonus, he’ll only buff 1 core (why? Why would a “magical” effect care about how regularly a unit appears in an army?) unit with -1 AP. I hope they clean that special rule up, because it reads like it’s only the extra AP from the assault doctrine, not savage echoes.

TO be fair, the Red Grail is a small bonus if you are alpha striking. The real deal here is a flying source of 6+++, healing and ressurrection using the new Combat Revival Straatgem. He can now heal and revive in the same turn. Give him the Chief Apothecary ability (hopefully we get that or the equivalent in our codex) and he can heal 2 separate squads and revive a fallen model for free. He brings different buffs from 8th edition but still good buffs IMHO. The 6+++ helps take the stings out losing the SoS (slightly).

He’s there for healing and resurrection, alright. I’m curious if/how Chalice Overflowing would interact with the new rules for him, actually. A 5+++ maybe? Or full access to Savage Echoes?

 

The points for this 4-wound marine are too high though. I’m hoping for lower costs with the supplement, but I think I’ll be disappointed.

He'll need armour Indomitus as a relic because as Chief Apothecary, he’s a main target.

 

One thing I’m actually excited about is the Chapter Champion. With a JP, the relic MC powersword and the WLT +1S/+1A he’s quite the beast potentially.

[Indefragable]

 

 

I’m really quite bummed about the Sanguinary Priest. Even with power weapons having the innate strength bonus, he’ll only buff 1 core (why? Why would a “magical” effect care about how regularly a unit appears in an army?) unit with -1 AP. I hope they clean that special rule up, because it reads like it’s only the extra AP from the assault doctrine, not savage echoes.

TO be fair, the Red Grail is a small bonus if you are alpha striking. The real deal here is a flying source of 6+++, healing and ressurrection using the new Combat Revival Straatgem. He can now heal and revive in the same turn. Give him the Chief Apothecary ability (hopefully we get that or the equivalent in our codex) and he can heal 2 separate squads and revive a fallen model for free. He brings different buffs from 8th edition but still good buffs IMHO. The 6+++ helps take the stings out losing the SoS (slightly).

He’s there for healing and resurrection, alright. I’m curious if/how Chalice Overflowing would interact with the new rules for him, actually. A 5+++ maybe? Or full access to Savage Echoes?

 

The points for this 4-wound marine are too high though. I’m hoping for lower costs with the supplement, but I think I’ll be disappointed.

He'll need armour Indomitus as a relic because as Chief Apothecary, he’s a main target.

 

One thing I’m actually excited about is the Chapter Champion. With a JP, the relic MC powersword and the WLT +1S/+1A he’s quite the beast potentially.

 

 

Yea of all the things we get access to in Codex: Space Marines, I'm oddly most pumped about the Chapter Champion. Is he still -1 To Hit in melee, or did they remove that item from his new datasheet?

[Morticon]

Played two games with the 9th ed dex yesterday. 

Sanguinor with the BA Speed of Primarch WLT is just unreal. It's a real game-changer.  In all honesty- its really the only way that model's ability will work- which makes me VERY cautious about the new dex. If he gets another WLT instead- that intervention ability is going to be pants, considering he'll just take the brunt of the charging attacks, instead of clearing things out first. 

 

Like most, I'm really disappointed that we've lost our 4/5 core stratagems, that arguably made us what they are.  Notably:

 

1. Red Rampage

2: Visions

3. Forlorn Fury

4. Descent of Angels

5. On Wings of Fire

 

 

While I dont want to whine too much, if none of these make it into the new BA dex, the tactical flexibility they once had will be all but gone.  It will also be quite a massive shame to change a direction so hard after the past few (4? 5?) years of their style and development. 

 

Lamenting what was lost aside, 

 

Cobulo's ability is awesome - though, the wording that allows us to heal twice, doesnt overrule the wording that allows us to target one unit with the ability more than once- meaning we cant double heal.  

 

Asty took such a huge knock. That mass of Doom is now simply no longer worth it for characters- which is a huge pity.  1:6 chance of flat out dying, with no reroll. 

 

The loss of fly on Impulsors, while not a BA thing uniquely is a HUGE knock.  The ability to move around and through terrain and models unhindered is just so so strong.  I can see why they wanted to balance this.  The issue here is theyre now slightly larger, oversized rhinos. This made my game a LOT tougher- even with their 14" movement. 

 

Attack bikes are still gold in my eyes, and I think you'll see more of them. 

 

I played a quirky list:

 

Sanguinor

Corbulo

Mephiston

 

5x Tac- Melta/Cmbi-melta/Fist

5x Tac- GravCan/Cmbi-melta/Axe

5x ASsault  Inters - TH

 

5x Scouts   ( <_< )

8x Vanvet - TH, 3 PF, 8SS

 

2x Attack Bikes- MM

2x Attack Bikes- MM

Land Raider Achilles

Drop Pod

2x Impulsors- Shields

Speeder Storm

 

 

 

Was playing vs new Dark Angels- which will quickly be moving up to the top of the meta.  

[Klod]

 

DC getting bolters for 8th was a surprise. They’re in the box but on arms that are meant for holding them in 2 hands. All the artwork shows pistols with chainswords 

 

That is exactly why I built mine with pistols and chainswords eventhough botler was obviously a better option. I went through all the official artwork and whatever books I had that mentioned DC, and not once did I see a chainsword and boltgun together.

I'm sorry for people who built their with bolters, but also happy with this change, because it makes more sense narratively.

[Rhavien]

Have sent GW an email if savage echos is supposed to trigger or not while under the effect of a chalice or the red grail. I hope they will answer within this millenia. If I get a reply you guys will also know it.

 

Regarding bolters and chainswords: I had built mine while this wasn't an option, so no loss ;)

[SnorriSnorrison]

 *snip*

 

5x Scouts   ( <_< )

Speeder Storm

 

 

My feelings exactly.

 

Out of curiosity, were the Scouts and LSS worth it with their new rules? No ObSec but assault vehicle...did you manage to use the no-overwatch stratagem for the LSS?

[Montoya]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread already, but I just noticed that the "red thrist" ability is gone from all the datasheets as well.

[Blindhamster]

yes because its just our chapter tactic now.

[Thoridon]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread already, but I just noticed that the "red thrist" ability is gone from all the datasheets as well.

The PDF only highlights things not in the new codex. Our chapter tactic is detailed in the Codex along with all the rest.

 

There's a paragraph in the new codex stating that all adeptus astartes units get the chapter tactic if they're in a matching detachment, so it's no longer needed as a separate keyword on datasheets.

[Jolemai]

Combat Squads is in the same boat. It's basically been centralised now.

[Indefragable]

I hope Dante gets to pick his warlord trait. Would be fluffy considering he’s been around long enough to have a considerable wardrobe.

 

”Do I put on my inspiring pants today? Or my face-smashing pants? Or my pants that make gold records?”

[Thoridon]

Dante should get all the warlord traits.

[Indefragable]

Dante should get all the warlord traits.

 

Indeed....but unlikely. 

[Spagunk]

At the very least, He gets 1 warlord trait (whatever it ends up being) and can choose one other trait from the normal list. They did that before 7th (5th/6th edition? I forget) where in he got access to get two traits off two different lists (Tactical and Strategic trait lists I believe?) so seeing that back would definitely go some ways to make him pretty unique.

[Spagunk]

Also, regarding Bolters on DC: I'm going to make them anyway. I can always just say they're bolt pistols as it won't really matter to much.

That also assumes that I "MAY" be doing something 40k relatively soonish. Not quite certain (Got a good HH backlog :p) but it may be in the cards.

[Morticon]

 

 *snip*

 

5x Scouts   ( )

Speeder Storm

 

My feelings exactly.

 

Out of curiosity, were the Scouts and LSS worth it with their new rules? No ObSec but assault vehicle...did you manage to use the no-overwatch stratagem for the LSS?

 

 

Completely missed it!!   really  like it and will be using  it in the  future! 

 

As for the scouts, as a unit  of 125 points - even with  the  loss of Troops -  they work well for what they offer

[The Unseen]

On the more positive note, despite the loss of a 4++ for cataphracts, the relic terminator entry still has potential.

 

Assuming pts costs are the same for them, a unit with lightning claws and storm bolters becomes a really decent bully unit.

Back them up with a Priest for the -1 ap extra, red thirst plus rerolls is nasty.

Even if savage echoes doesn't proc off of sanguinary priests (I think/hope it does), that's still 3 attacks each, 4 with shock assault, along with 4 storm bolter shots at 24". Season to taste with a heavy flamer and/or a power fist on the sarge.

 

Sanguinary Guard will hit harder, especially vs multiwound targets, but the 3rd wound makes them significantly more durable, and fury of the first can replicate heirs for 1 cp

 

I really REALLY hate how all these buffs are now command phase targeted. Like, why not have them trigger in the phase they're used in? Or have the command phase happen after movement. Its so incredibly clunky for melee armies that use anything other than straight running across the table.

Want to deep-strike?

No buffs for you.

Want to transport the character OR the unit inside a vehicle?

No buffs for you.